Members Reddog1 Posted October 25, 2009 Members Share Posted October 25, 2009 I'm a guitar player in a classic rock cover band, and decided to come to this forum for some pa questions. I'll try to give as much info as I can so to answer anyones questions before they are asked, so this might get lengthy. First off I've played guitar for many years but never had any experience with pa equipment until just a couple of years ago. The equipment we use was bought at different times (used, sales, blowouts, etc). I learned from a few fellas that played in bands where the pa sounded good. So if you ask why I am doing a certain thing a certain way, well, thats just the way I learned. We play in bars that will pack not much more than 100 people and the occasional backyard outdoor party in the summer. Stage volume is high (I play through a Classic 30 tube amp that I have to crank pretty good to be happy). Equipment:plx 3602 powers 2-Yamaha cw118v subscrown xs1200 powers 2- JBL JRX 125Alesis gigamix 4fx powers our monitors and doubles as the practice pa3-yamaha br12m monitorsMackie 20 channel cfx mkII mixer- this has a built in crossoverAlesis 3630 compressordbx compressor The JBL's were the first thing I got for the pa, got them used. And I think I am ready to upgrade. We have plenty of volume but just want a better sound. I see the dislike for JBL's around this site, so I need a good recommendation for an upgrade. Let's say around $1,000 (max) for a set. Would the Yamaha club series on top be much of an improvement? Do I want 12's or 15's? As of now I am pretty happy with the subs. BTW we are a 3 piece, all of us sing, we mic the guitar, run the bass direct, and mic the kick and sometimes the snare. Use sm57's and sm58's. Compressors. I was taught that compressors were an insurance policy for speakers, and it helped with vocals. We are all very consious of keeping our distance from the mic at the right times, even the drummer is as hard as it is in the position he is in. We compress and gate the kick. But the other compressor is the whole house, do I need this? One thing I like about it is the gate, we keep it somewhat tight then it doesn't seem to pick up every pin drop. Just looking for some help here. I understand the plx has a limiter, but not sure about the crown. Should I drop the house compression? Also, is a rack eq beneficial? The person that runs our sound is in the same boat I am and just learning, but has an excellent ear, and knows exactly how we want to sound. I'm just looking for some help here and thought this was a good place to come. If I think of any other questions I will post them. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted October 25, 2009 Members Share Posted October 25, 2009 There's no dislike for JBL around here BUT your specific line within the JBL brand is not well regarded. Replacing the JRX with the MRX-512 will be a noticeable improvement and with the SRX-712 the difference will be "mindblowing". I would drop house compression as it's not going to be all that effective on the top cabinets due to the sub material crossing the threshold first (in general). I would also recommend a real crossover, unless you decide to use the PLX-1802's internal crossover and run your system in mono (that's definately what I would do since now you solve your crossover and limiter problem) The XLS could be used for monitors when using the larger board or sold off. The crossover in the mixer is useless for what you need to do. The other problem I see is the Yamaha BR series monitors... wow that's yuck territory IMO. Get some Yamaha club 12M's for monitors and the difference will be VERY noticeable. What are you using for EQ's? Sell your compressors if necessary to finance eq's for at least your monitors. Way more useful for you at where you are at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted October 25, 2009 Members Share Posted October 25, 2009 I see the dislike for JBL's around this site, so I need a good recommendation for an upgrade. Let's say around $1,000 (max) for a set. Would the Yamaha club series on top be much of an improvement? Do I want 12's or 15's?I think it is only the JBL "JRX" series people here think of as substandard fireplace fuel . MRX512M's are a little more than $1000 a pair but a step up from the Yamaha club tops (which are better than the JRX you have IMO). Peavey Impulse 1012's are just under $1000 a pair and I like mine - I'd rate them better than the Yamaha clubs also (and lighter ). As you have subs definitely go with 12's for the tops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Reddog1 Posted October 25, 2009 Author Members Share Posted October 25, 2009 I think it is only the JBL "JRX" series people here think of as substandard fireplace fuel . Yea, my mistake. I understand that the models above the JRX are much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Unalaska Posted October 25, 2009 Members Share Posted October 25, 2009 Waaay to much power for the subs and tops. There is no way those JRX's will do 1200w each especially without a proper crossover. 1st thing is buy a crossover, next run mono only using the PLX3602 with subs on one channel and tops on the other. 2nd Do a search for tops, MRX515 would be a good choice, EV tourX, there are many choices. 3rd use a 31 band eq on mains and one for each monitor mix. Sell the alesis comp, keep the DBX for kick and lead vocal. Mixer - EQ - crossover - amp(s). That's it, XLR's ONLY! You have a spare amp and that should be used to power the 2 monitor mixes. Keep the powered head for smaller things and will come in handy too. Problem is that XS1200 is also too powerful for monitors as well. Something in the 200-300w @ 8 ohms per channel is plenty. Put that in a small 4sp rack with a DBX 231 EQ and viola! 2 mixes!good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted October 26, 2009 Members Share Posted October 26, 2009 With the upgrade, the single PLX would be ok for the tops and ok for the subs with a little care (note the MRX sub is a 4 ohm box, so that's still a lot of power). The XLS is just way too much power for monitors, I agree 100%. Powered speakers look like a good alternate too, sell everything and upgrade the whole mess would be my "best" scenario. Overall, you will end up with an easier to operate and transport and set up system that will sound better "out ofthe box". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted October 26, 2009 Members Share Posted October 26, 2009 You lost me here. I'm not familiar with how I would do this internal crossover. External active crossover (actually resides in the PLX amp) splits the signal into a sub out to drive your sub and a main signal to drive your top cabinets. This way, your tops do not receive any sub signal and the subs don't receive any of the top's signal. The increase in clarity is significant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators MarkGifford-1 Posted October 26, 2009 Moderators Share Posted October 26, 2009 External active crossover (actually resides in the PLX amp) splits the signal into a sub out to drive your sub and a main signal to drive your top cabinets. This way, your tops do not receive any sub signal and the subs don't receive any of the top's signal. The increase in clarity is significant. I've got two PLX's and they don't have X-overs... Is that the optional card, that there's a slot for? I'd love to get one of these for my FOH amp. Are they still available, and how much for installation? Thanks, MG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted October 26, 2009 Members Share Posted October 26, 2009 I've got two PLX's and they don't have X-overs...Is that the optional card, that there's a slot for?I'd love to get one of these for my FOH amp.Are they still available, and how much for installation?Thanks,MG The original (type 1) PLX's did not have a built in crossover but there was an internal crossover that could be installed on the inside left side panel. Connected via a ribbon cable modification. There were some other modules too. IIRC, the model of the crossover was the UF-1. The new PLX-2's have a 100Hz xover built in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Reddog1 Posted October 26, 2009 Author Members Share Posted October 26, 2009 External active crossover (actually resides in the PLX amp) splits the signal into a sub out to drive your sub and a main signal to drive your top cabinets. This way, your tops do not receive any sub signal and the subs don't receive any of the top's signal. The increase in clarity is significant. Ok, I'm thinking that is the filter switch for each channel on the back of the amp. I put it in sub mode while just running the subs (like I do now). So I could split it if I run the tops on one channel and the subs on the other. If this is what you are talking about it makes sense to me now, I just needed to look the amp over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Reddog1 Posted October 26, 2009 Author Members Share Posted October 26, 2009 The new PLX-2's have a 100Hz xover built in. I think this is what I have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted October 26, 2009 Members Share Posted October 26, 2009 Ok, I'm thinking that is the filter switch for each channel on the back of the amp. I put it in sub mode while just running the subs (like I do now). So I could split it if I run the tops on one channel and the subs on the other. If this is what you are talking about it makes sense to me now, I just needed to look the amp over. yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Reddog1 Posted October 26, 2009 Author Members Share Posted October 26, 2009 yes. Great. I guess it was staring me in the face the entire time. Thanks for your ideas, now I just need to decide on a set of tops. I think eq on the monitors is a good idea as well. Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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