Members 1tribe Posted February 10, 2010 Members Share Posted February 10, 2010 I would say a realistic crowd covered outdoors from your rig would be 200 people max.I would certainly look into renting either (4) more LS700P subs to go with what you currently have or, (4) SRX/QRX 218 subs properly powered.The subs you currently have are great indoors for crowds of around 200 people but outdoors they run out of gas quickly. Im in this corner. I have 2 SRX718's and I would rent another pair to cover 300+. I would probably be ok covering a group of 200. My current tops are either a pair of SRX712's or FBT Maxx4a's. The FBT's atleast have a 90deg horn. I like the horn better on the 712's and they will probably reach out a little better and should get louder according to the spec's but would depend on the stage and seat/standing (coverage) area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members derrick Posted February 11, 2010 Author Members Share Posted February 11, 2010 vinny D, have you ever use 4 ls700p coupled center stage? I bet you will be very surprised at the output. i've done outdoor shows with those subs. will they shake the earth nah, but they will produce adequate low end. i've had people come up to me and said the can't beleive those are ten inch speakers in those boxes. my problem is finding 4 light, powerful, biampable, passive top boxes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vinny D Posted February 11, 2010 Members Share Posted February 11, 2010 vinny D, have you ever use 4 ls700p coupled center stage? I bet you will be very surprised at the output. i've done outdoor shows with those subs. will they shake the earth nah, but they will produce adequate low end. i've had people come up to me and said the can't beleive those are ten inch speakers in those boxes. my problem is finding 4 light, powerful, biampable, passive top boxes. I have used LS700p's in the past and a friend's band uses them every weekend. They are a great sub and have surprising output.....indoor. Outside they seem to just die off rather quickly. Four of them would work, eight of them would be ideal IMO for an outdoor gig but, still would get blown away by (4) SRX/QRX/QW 218 style subs properly powered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members derrick Posted February 11, 2010 Author Members Share Posted February 11, 2010 vinnyD,I don't know how your friend's band system is setup, but they provide adequate low end for me even doing outdoor shows. you are correct that 4 double 18s subs would be much better,but i'm 51 years old and weight is a factor.I do scalable work, using 2 subs for smaller gigs and 4 subs for larger gigs. i spoke to a yorkville in canada and he told me how crossover and eq those subs to make them sound much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vinny D Posted February 11, 2010 Members Share Posted February 11, 2010 Derrick,If you are happy with the performance of (4) LS700P subs thats great, I don't have a problem with that. I also said that those subs do sound great.You were asking about outdoors and in my experience with that sub (4) of them outdoors wouldn't cut it for any show I would do.Eight of them would I also said a realistic crowd for your coverage is more in the 200 person capacity outdoors, but using (4) LS700P subs *I* don't feel like it would give you enough.If it does to your ears thats fine with me, just giving my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted February 11, 2010 Members Share Posted February 11, 2010 4 ls700p coupled center stage? I bet you will be very surprised at the output. i've done outdoor shows with those subs. will they shake the earth nah, but they will produce adequate low end.Hey, if they do it for you outdoors I'l betcha a beer that just one pair of properly powered 1012's will keep up. If you can afford it definitely get a used iTech4000 for them and run them mono off that. The iTech has the best and easiest to set up limiters around. I don't know if it has the 1012's as a preset but if not try to get someone to use SMAART to set it up for you outdoors. Actually I'll probably do that with mine in the late spring so I'll have the profile I could share with you . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 11, 2010 Members Share Posted February 11, 2010 Hey, if they do it for you outdoors I'l betcha a beer that just one pair of properly powered 1012's will keep up. If you can afford it definitely get a used iTech4000 for them and run them mono off that. The iTech has the best and easiest to set up limiters around. I don't know if it has the 1012's as a preset but if not try to get someone to use SMAART to set it up for you outdoors. Actually I'll probably do that with mine in the late spring so I'll have the profile I could share with you . WAY too much power IMO. In fact, this is the classic example of going into a situation with not enough speaker for the job and too much power. It's the perfect set-up for damaged speakers. I don't care what you may have done or your experience. My experience says differently... many times with many customers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members derrick Posted February 11, 2010 Author Members Share Posted February 11, 2010 i would not put more than 700 watts into those boxes. i have two qsc power amps which i use for top boxes they are plx3402 and 3002. i think 4 peavey 1012s would adequate for outdoor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jwlussow Posted February 11, 2010 Members Share Posted February 11, 2010 i think 4 peavey 1012s would adequate for outdoor. Are you talking a small pool party or an outdoor concert type situation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted February 11, 2010 Members Share Posted February 11, 2010 WAY too much power IMO. In fact, this is the classic example of going into a situation with not enough speaker for the job and too much power. It's the perfect set-up for damaged speakers. I don't care what you may have done or your experience. My experience says differently... many times with many customers.That's the smallest iTech made I believe? If it does have a preset for the 1012's I'm sure it is safe. If not, I'm sure it could be programmed to be safe. Question is if the OP is capable of that? It is certainly easier to program correctly than a driverack feeding some random power amp as the iTech knows what its own gain is . I've heard a somewhat similar speaker pair powered with an iTech 6000 (Community iHP1294P, 1x12 + horn) overpower 8kw of subs (four 2x18 EAW cabs) outdoors. Lots of folks biamp their monitors with 4000's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 11, 2010 Members Share Posted February 11, 2010 Roadrange... you are not "getting it". many of those folks are the same folks that come in with damaged speakers too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members imnotded Posted February 11, 2010 Members Share Posted February 11, 2010 Roadrange... you are not "getting it". many of those folks are the same folks that come in with damaged speakers too. You dont get a little excited when you hear someone needs a re-cone? :poke: Or when someone needs a crossover fixed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted February 11, 2010 Members Share Posted February 11, 2010 Roadrange... you are not "getting it". many of those folks are the same folks that come in with damaged speakers too.Yah, if the OP can't get someone who knows what they are doing to set up an iTech for these speakers he should definitely keep to the 700w amps he has and not try to biamp them . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 11, 2010 Members Share Posted February 11, 2010 Why buy a 2000 watt amp then limit it back to 1000 watts? no real world benefit but all the additional cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted February 11, 2010 Members Share Posted February 11, 2010 Why buy a 2000 watt amp then limit it back to 1000 watts? no real world benefit but all the additional cost.You can't get the wonderful limiters of the iTech without buying one . Used in biamp mono mode it's only going to have 1000w available to each 1012 LF driver anyways which is only the "program" rating. You wouldn't even need to limit the peak power there, just the RMS. Obviously the channel driving the HF drivers would need some serious peak limiting as well as RMS - which the iTech can do no prob . This is what them QSC "K" active speakers (and now the new EV's too) do - equal power to the LF and HF drivers with the DSP heavily limiting what the HF "sees" . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 12, 2010 Members Share Posted February 12, 2010 I was referring to total amplifier power, per the nominal rating. 1000 watts is way too much per driver IMO and IME. You are too liberal for the OP's application. Then again, it's not your drivers so what do you have to lose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted February 12, 2010 Members Share Posted February 12, 2010 Then again, it's not your drivers so what do you have to lose?I may run mine from a iTech4000 this summer and I have no doubt it can be done safely. The LF drivers will be HPF'd well above the box tuning freq and RMS limited to 350-400w. If the IPR-4500 ships before I need it I may end up using one of those instead with my Behringer DSP. In the latter case I'll use the big amp for the LF drivers and subs and a smaller amp for the HF drivers. That will only be 750w into the LF drivers and still be RMS limited to 350-400w. Anyways I know I'll have at least one show outdoors where I can both open 'er up and not have it be a problem if I can't get as loud as I expect this to get . I'm shootin' for 105dbc slow @ 60 feet and will be real surprised if I can't get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 12, 2010 Members Share Posted February 12, 2010 I do have doubt. Lots of doubt. It's not the mechanical problems but thermal for a user that does not have enough PA driving the speaker well into limiting to "get by". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted February 12, 2010 Members Share Posted February 12, 2010 It's not the mechanical problems but thermal for a user that does not have enough PA driving the speaker well into limiting to "get by".Yep, if you don't crank the limiters down enough to prevent that you're gonna get what you deserve . In any case I think the OP has enough info now to decide if he has the expertise (or can buy it) to run these puppies up towards their limits or needs to back off and run two pairs to get the SPL he needs . I still can't imagine his 1400wrms of subs outdoors are gonna overpower a pair of 1012's, even if he just goes with his present amp putting 700w into each. My "big" subs are rated at 1600w total and horn loaded to boot and I'm not even expecting them to overpower the 1012's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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