Members Keyrick Posted February 11, 2010 Members Share Posted February 11, 2010 the grief I received on the next job. Extra scrutiny. Truer words were never spoken. It happened to me where I was building a 6000 amp 48v battery plant in a city where the inspectors had never seen this level of DC power. The next simple AC installation took an awful long time for approval. Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MainEventSound Posted February 11, 2010 Members Share Posted February 11, 2010 We us 12 AWG on our 10' and 25'. We use 10 AWG on our 50' and 100'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 11, 2010 Members Share Posted February 11, 2010 If you use 10 gauge SO cables, be sure the connectors are listed for that size wire... especially the strain relief. Many are not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members KF650SB1000 Posted February 11, 2010 Members Share Posted February 11, 2010 also note: that the "metal punch out boxes" are illegal for Entertainment usage (which sound & lighting fall in). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members boomerweps Posted February 11, 2010 Members Share Posted February 11, 2010 Keep it it simple. Just buy a 250 foot spool of 12 AWG and use it for everything. I went with SJOEW. I cut it into some odd lengths because I have a couple 12 foot supply lines on my poor man's distro (common ground). My inventory ended up with 2-40 foot and 2-77 foot supply lines and one 95 foot FOH line. I do have a couple 50 foot SO lengths with woodruff quads on them for outdoors, especially over gravel or walkways. This is for a never inspected bar band setup. The AHJs get interested when you move the distros in. If you see the Authority Having Jurisdiction (electrical safety inspector) much, for supply lines get SO to be covered. Point is the NEC is a Nationally agreed on Code, not a law or regulation. It's up to the localities to adopt it as is or modify it and is always up to the AHJ's interpretation. Sucks, don't it? When people state "20 amp rated", it can be confusing. Most heavy duty or industrial type NEMA 5-15 plugs and jacks are "20 amp rated". However, they would NOT be refered to as a 20 amp plug. By the way, I have a set of 4 male and 4 female 20 amp twistlockcable ends for sale. PM me if interested. Boomerweps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted February 11, 2010 CMS Author Share Posted February 11, 2010 The primary consideration is that if a single piece is UL listed for 20 amps then it is reqiured to have a 5-20P plug. The rest is again, a gray area. Commercial grade receptacles such as the 5-15R and 5-15/20R (now commonly (and incorrectly) called a 5-20R all will carry 20 amps because they are all built using exactly the same contact system. Same thing for the commercial grade plugs. Because the load is not defined, they are allowed by code to be sourced from a 20 amp branch circuit. As far as the code goes, that's where it stops... other than to say that the portable wiring must be sized for the intended load. Now the AHJ may say that in addition to sizing the wire to the load, that the plug must be sized to the load also, but since the load is not defined, and there's no listing saying what the specific load characteristics are, it's now a judgement call.This is true only for the industrial and commercial style connectors with double wiping heavy spring contacts and does NOT apply to residential grade receptacles which are built differently and technically are not allowed except in residential applications which live audio is not. You've touched on a couple of issues I've pondered with this; that the 15a ends are no different (other then one blade orientiation) than their 20a counterparts, and that the AHJ is typically the one who causes a problem....or not. In my case many years ago I ran afoul and was told I had to use 20a ends, so that's what I've always done. Regarding the ends, several companies sell 15a ends that have the blade which can be pulled and reoriented for 20a use. And finally, the fact that 15a residential-grade is excluded from 20a use, except for some multiwire kitchen applications *I think* (I'm exhausted from nonstop snow shoveling...got another 24in yesterday.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted February 11, 2010 CMS Author Share Posted February 11, 2010 also note: that the "metal punch out boxes" are illegal for Entertainment usage (which sound & lighting fall in). You missed the Quad box thread?? Go check it out...it's a hoot.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 11, 2010 Members Share Posted February 11, 2010 Residential grade receptacles and plugs are not allowed for commercial applications period... BUT it's rarely enforced. There is a big difference in the construction style which translated into different performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted February 11, 2010 CMS Author Share Posted February 11, 2010 Residential grade receptacles and plugs are not allowed for commercial applications period... BUT it's rarely enforced. There is a big difference in the construction style which translated into different performance. In these parts it seems it's never enforced, especially in office buildings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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