Members faidlor Posted March 5, 2010 Members Share Posted March 5, 2010 Made my first quad box last night and it turned out great! However, it cost about $63 for a 50ft quad box from Home Depot. Granted it's worth every penny I wonder if it's more economical getting supplies from an online dealer. Especially for cables. It's $0.86/ft for 14-gauge 3 conductor cables at HD. Any suggestions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members banddad Posted March 5, 2010 Members Share Posted March 5, 2010 Do you have a local electrical supply store? I got the properly rated cable (black, SJ I think) from them for less than the HD prices. Shipping gets pricey on cables. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members faidlor Posted March 5, 2010 Author Members Share Posted March 5, 2010 Do you have a local electrical supply store? I got the properly rated cable (black, SJ I think) from them for less than the HD prices. Shipping gets pricey on cables. We have Ace Hardware. I doubt their pricing would be any better though. But it wouldn't hurt to check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Gordon Sound Posted March 7, 2010 Members Share Posted March 7, 2010 Unless you can score a major deal on the cable or can get free shipping its usually not worth it. Most everyone hase a electical supply house in their county, you may just not know where to look for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members W. M. Hellinger Posted March 7, 2010 Members Share Posted March 7, 2010 Most everyone hase a electical supply house in their county, you may just not know where to look for it. I'm of the experience that electrical supply houses generally charge basically full retail unless you're a licensed contractor... chances are Home Depot or similar box store offers difficult to beat pricing unless you're set-up as a long-time volume commercial account at a contractor's electrical supply house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BillESC Posted March 7, 2010 Members Share Posted March 7, 2010 BTW, Any cable longer that 6' should be SO type and not SJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members W. M. Hellinger Posted March 7, 2010 Members Share Posted March 7, 2010 BTW, Any cable longer that 6' should be SO type and not SJ. Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Telecruiser Posted March 7, 2010 Members Share Posted March 7, 2010 Why? Good question. SO is a heavier jacket and will take more abuse. If you have ever rolled up a 50' long 12-3 SO you will know what I mean. It depends on you use. If this cord is going to take a lot of abuse you might consider SO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members faidlor Posted March 7, 2010 Author Members Share Posted March 7, 2010 Darn it! I indeed used SJ 14-3 cables. I am thinking about making 3 more quad boxes. Should I cut the SJ cables into 6' strips and made 4 6-ft quad boxes, then make separate 50-ft SO extension cords? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NUSound Posted March 7, 2010 Members Share Posted March 7, 2010 Darn it! I indeed used SJ 14-3 cables. I am thinking about making 3 more quad boxes. Should I cut the SJ cables into 6' strips and made 4 6-ft quad boxes, then make separate 50-ft SO extension cords? Consider making your quad's with only 18-24" (enough to reach the floor from a typical outlet) of cable on them and using extension cords in between. This makes them significantly more versatile and somewhat easier to store. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted March 7, 2010 Members Share Posted March 7, 2010 Article 520. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members faidlor Posted March 7, 2010 Author Members Share Posted March 7, 2010 Consider making your quad's with only 18-24" (enough to reach the floor from a typical outlet) of cable on them and using extension cords in between. This makes them significantly more versatile and somewhat easier to store. Exactly my thought. Awesome!: Thx! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members W. M. Hellinger Posted March 7, 2010 Members Share Posted March 7, 2010 Article 520. If I'm reading it correctly, NEC Article 520, specifically 520-68 (conductors for portables) seems to generally call for extra-hard usage (SO) rated cabling. The exceptions seem to be for cabling like socapex lighting cable and the like that won't be laying on the floor. There doesn't seem to be any exceptions allowing SJ cabling of shorter lengths when the cabling is laying on the ground or stage. If I'm reading the code book right, then a 100ft. 12-3 SJOW extension cord (like the orange ones commonly sold at large box chain stores) running out to the FOH mix position would be a strict no-no. This maybe answers some questions I've had for years... concerning the common usage of L5-20 twistlock connectors on quadbox cableing and the like. It makes sense now, since if the cabling has to be SO to be code compliant, and if you want 20 amps of capability, 12-3 SO cable isn't Edision plug (5-15 or 5-20) friendly... and you just about have to use L5-20 twistlock connectors just to be capable of assembling the male connector on the cable... and to have any hope of that heavy 12-3SO cable staying connected to a receptical. Maybe Bill's found an exception in the code book that allows short SJ rated cables, as it would make sense to have some short 5-15P to L5-20R adaptor cables so a person could plug their SO (with L5-20P ends) equipped quad boxes into standard Edision wall outlets at venues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NUSound Posted March 7, 2010 Members Share Posted March 7, 2010 If I'm reading it correctly, NEC Article 520, specifically 520-68 (conductors for portables) seems to generally call for extra-hard usage (SO) rated cabling. The exceptions seem to be for cabling like socapex lighting cable and the like that won't be laying on the floor. There doesn't seem to be any exceptions allowing SJ cabling of shorter lengths when the cabling is laying on the ground or stage. That's the one. Although come to think of, there is a section in 520 that allows for (might be off a hair on the language - going from memory) "adapters and twofers" that can be SJ provided they are less than 1 meter. I can't recall if they must be 'protected' like what 520.68 calls for. 1 meter is only ~3.3 feet, so I still can't come up with the 6 foot figure... garsh. Does a quad-box count as an adapter? Probably up to the AHJ, which I wouldn't push my luck with on a non-portable listed box to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted March 7, 2010 Members Share Posted March 7, 2010 There is an exception for things like a cable that's pulled through a tube (protected for it's entire length) and short pieces that are protected. If everything is done right, it's unlikely that SJ will be tagged (where used appropriately) but there are places in the US where the codes are enforced to the letter usually due to politics and sometimes union influences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members banddad Posted March 7, 2010 Members Share Posted March 7, 2010 I got the properly rated cable (black, SJ I think) from them for less than the HD prices. Oops - my bad. I looked at my extension cables (can't trust my memory, must be CRS kicking in), and actually used SOOW cable. Good stuff! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members faidlor Posted March 8, 2010 Author Members Share Posted March 8, 2010 If I used a 16g SOOW cable would that be okay for my 50' extension cords? The 14g are quite a bit more expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted March 8, 2010 Members Share Posted March 8, 2010 If I used a 16g SOOW cable would that be okay for my 50' extension cords? The 14g are quite a bit more expensive. If you are powering low power loads only. 14ga is a better choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members faidlor Posted March 8, 2010 Author Members Share Posted March 8, 2010 If you are powering low power loads only. 14ga is a better choice. How about for powering a rack case with a PV14 mixer, dbx231 EQ, dbx 233xl xover, a rmx1450 and a rmx1850HD? All from one quad box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted March 8, 2010 Members Share Posted March 8, 2010 How about for powering a rack case with a PV14 mixer, dbx231 EQ, dbx 233xl xover, a rmx1450 and a rmx1850HD? All from one quad box. 14 gauge MINIMUM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Unalaska Posted March 8, 2010 Members Share Posted March 8, 2010 I had to throw out all 16ga power cables and most 14's too. Say for example you run 12ga from a lighting tree and you're 10ft short. I did this once using a 16ga and it MELTED the plastic end to the male 12ga molded end. Don't do this, resist temptation and get rid of 16ga and 14ga too. For any kind of lighting it makes a biiig difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members faidlor Posted March 8, 2010 Author Members Share Posted March 8, 2010 I guess I will try to cough up the doe for at least 14ga cables. 12ga will sure clean out my wallet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted March 8, 2010 CMS Author Share Posted March 8, 2010 It isn't cheap. Doing it right surely isn't. But doing it right will give you peace of mind, and gear that will be in service long after the cheap stuff has been trashed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Keyrick Posted March 8, 2010 Members Share Posted March 8, 2010 There are good reasons other than code compliance to use the correct guage cable, especially if you have long runs. As SR equipment advances, more DSP is involved. As a keyboard player whose boards are computers (essentially all keys today), I can tell you that intermediate voltage sag, like when the kick is hit, can drop the voltage at the end of the extension cord to a level that will cause the computers to reboot. This is not fun in the middle of a song. Other DSP devices can suffer the same fate. When you use the proper gauge cable, voltage drop issues are minimized. There is no voltage drop when there is no current flowing. When excess current flows, the voltage drop can be substantial, especially if you are using smaller guage power cables. Like Craig said, doing it right gives you Peace of Mind, in more ways than one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted March 8, 2010 Members Share Posted March 8, 2010 For your application and loads, 14ga should be fine provided you limit the total length of the extension cords to 100' or less. Note guys, that the load is likely 8 ohms per channel on the main amp and the maximum current draw is unlikely to exceed about 5-6 amps. Even at 4 ohms, driven into limiting it's only going to be around 8 amps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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