Members bbrownderville Posted May 30, 2010 Members Share Posted May 30, 2010 I just set my Td-20 set up for the first time at my church. Right now I only have it running mono out of the master out. I am wanting to use the 8 direct outs so I can have more control at the mixer. Will this snake work for what I need to do? The set is about 5-10 feet away from the main snake that goes to the mixer so I think this patch snake will do. I am trying to avoid getting 8 d.i.s or a rack mount d.i. for right now just because they cost so much.. or at least they do when u buy enough for 8 inputs and then cables for all 8.. Anyone know if this is sheilded.. It doesn't say if it is or not.. http://www.audiopile.net/products/Patch_snakes/MTMS/MTMS-08/MTMS-08_cutsheet.shtml Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TimmyP Posted May 30, 2010 Members Share Posted May 30, 2010 If the mixer is of a type that has global phantom power, I'd say no, as if the phantom power gets turned on, it will likely damage the outputs of the TD-20. (Unless you use XLR-to-1/4" adapters on the board and and go into the line inputs.) If the above is not a concern, the answer is "maybe". It might work fine, or there might be ground loop issues. I'd play it safe in either case and get 8 channels of Audiopile.net or Radial Pro series DIs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members twostone Posted May 30, 2010 Members Share Posted May 30, 2010 Your TD-20 has 8 direct outs you should, take advantage of them here's how I did it. 1-kick dry signal with no effects 2-snare dry signal 3-toms grouped together dry signal 4-cymbals grouped together dry signal L/R main your favorite bedroom kit sent to MONITOR ONLY You ask why a dry signal because depending on the room I'm mixing sometimes the room had plenty of natural ambience so adding reverb would cause a bad mix. With the direct out dry signal I could add just the perfect amount eq and reverb to tune the drums to the room at the mixer which speeds up set up time then tweaking within the TD-20 unit IMO The main L/R I never used in the FOH mix because 99% the drummer has his favorite bedroom kit tweak to perfection but in a live room sometimes that kit just had way to much effects and cause a bad mix was one of the biggest problem I ran across. Also I know the TD-20 has a built in volume mixer but do the soundman a favor set and forget the volume on each slider and leave them. My last e-drummer couldn't keep his hands off his volume mixer esp the snare and kick and at times the kick and snare was walking all over the FOH mix causing a unbalanced mix with the kick and snare dominated the FOH mix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bbrownderville Posted May 31, 2010 Author Members Share Posted May 31, 2010 looks like ill be getting that 4 channel rack mount d.i. from Audiopile.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members twostone Posted May 31, 2010 Members Share Posted May 31, 2010 looks like ill be getting that 4 channel rack mount d.i. from Audiopile.. Add some of these to your Audiopile basket he has both male and female version. http://www.audiopile.net/products/Adaptors_Connectors/Adaptors/XLR_Barrel/CA-311/CA-311_cutsheet.shtml These will help for the TD-20 direct outs 1/4" to xlr to the DI rack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bbrownderville Posted May 31, 2010 Author Members Share Posted May 31, 2010 Add some of these to your Audiopile basket he has both male and female version. http://www.audiopile.net/products/Adaptors_Connectors/Adaptors/XLR_Barrel/CA-311/CA-311_cutsheet.shtmlThese will help for the TD-20 direct outs 1/4" to xlr to the DI rack. Do I really need those since the trs cables will only be about 6 feet long..?? The rack will be extremely close to the set.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mogwix Posted May 31, 2010 Members Share Posted May 31, 2010 These will help for the TD-20 direct outs 1/4" to xlr to the DI rack. Why? The inputs are 1/4"... he can just pick up a 4ch TS patch snake. EDIT: Andy clarified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted May 31, 2010 Members Share Posted May 31, 2010 You will need 1/4"TS to 1/4"TS for going into the DI. Do not use TRS because the ring must be connected to sleeve (which is default of course on a TS) on many DI's. Get a 4 channel passive DI or two to solve your problem correctly. If you don't have the funds for the proper interface, you probably don't have the funds to repair the TD-20 either eh? Do not use the adapter cables, too much potential for problems and then there's the potential for damaging the TS-20 with phantom power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members twostone Posted May 31, 2010 Members Share Posted May 31, 2010 Why? The inputs are 1/4"... he can just pick up a 4ch TS patch snake. EDIT: Andy clarified. My brain aint working sorry wasn't thinking right I was thinking the direct out on the TD-20 were balanced TRS it been almost year since I set up a TD-20 kit. Sorry bout that mis-infornmation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bbrownderville Posted May 31, 2010 Author Members Share Posted May 31, 2010 okie doke.. looks like I have my list of stuff. 4 Channel Passive D.I. From Audiopile4 10ft TS cables4 3 ft xlr cables to go from the d.i. to the snake.. Might even pick up 3 or 4 additional direct boxes. One for the Keyboard(runs mono out from a ts to xlr cable), one for the bass(uses pre out into the mixer but is on the hotter side) , and another 2 for the guitar players( one runs pre out to the mixer with a ground loop issue, and the other runs from his cheap pedal through a conversion cable to the mixer).. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted May 31, 2010 Members Share Posted May 31, 2010 My brain aint working sorry wasn't thinking right I was thinking the direct out on the TD-20 were balanced TRS it been almost year since I set up a TD-20 kit. Sorry bout that mis-infornmation. Even if they were balanced out, the DI is unbalanced in only. A floating ring may not work properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted May 31, 2010 Members Share Posted May 31, 2010 okie doke.. looks like I have my list of stuff. 4 Channel Passive D.I. From Audiopile4 10ft TS cables4 3 ft xlr cables to go from the d.i. to the snake..Might even pick up 3 or 4 additional direct boxes. One for the Keyboard(runs mono out from a ts to xlr cable), one for the bass(uses pre out into the mixer but is on the hotter side) , and another 2 for the guitar players( one runs pre out to the mixer with a ground loop issue, and the other runs from his cheap pedal through a conversion cable to the mixer).. There you go, simple and reliable solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bbrownderville Posted May 31, 2010 Author Members Share Posted May 31, 2010 There you go, simple and reliable solution. Amazingly everything buy my td-20 set has been set up like this since the new system was installed.. And phantom power has magically gotten turned on a few times(b4 I started running the mixer full time).. How nothing has had problems is a miracle.. But I am protecting my baby(Roland Set) I pieced it together used, but It still cost and arm and a leg.. Sounds pretty good live though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mogwix Posted May 31, 2010 Members Share Posted May 31, 2010 4 3 ft xlr cables to go from the d.i. to the snake.. Perhaps longer cables will be a better idea, unless the snake head is inside the rack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bbrownderville Posted May 31, 2010 Author Members Share Posted May 31, 2010 Perhaps longer cables will be a better idea, unless the snake head is inside the rack. The snake is on the floor right behind my 8 space rack.. 3 ft is plenty.. My eqs are in the same rack with 3 ft cables. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members twostone Posted May 31, 2010 Members Share Posted May 31, 2010 okie doke.. looks like I have my list of stuff. 4 Channel Passive D.I. From Audiopile4 10ft TS cables4 3 ft xlr cables to go from the d.i. to the snake..Might even pick up 3 or 4 additional direct boxes. One for the Keyboard(runs mono out from a ts to xlr cable), one for the bass(uses pre out into the mixer but is on the hotter side) , and another 2 for the guitar players( one runs pre out to the mixer with a ground loop issue, and the other runs from his cheap pedal through a conversion cable to the mixer).. Why not mic the guitar amps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mogwix Posted May 31, 2010 Members Share Posted May 31, 2010 3 ft is plenty.. You say this now, but there comes a time and place when you're going to need an extra couple feet. It's easy to coil up the excess, it's tricky to run and get longer cables. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bbrownderville Posted May 31, 2010 Author Members Share Posted May 31, 2010 Why not mic the guitar amps? one runs direct without a guitar amp, the other isnt used a whole lot and so we just run pre out.. Considering funds are limited like they are, its really just cheaper then buying sm57s.. And 3 ft will be plenty.. I understand your point but considering this is an installed system in the church, Nothing will be moved.. Wont be getting a bigger rack or anything.. And worst come to worst.. I might get longer cables someday down the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jwlussow Posted May 31, 2010 Members Share Posted May 31, 2010 We run the 8 outs into 8 channels on the board via a TRS to XLR patch snake. We like having more control over the mix at FOH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JoeDirt Posted October 28, 2011 Members Share Posted October 28, 2011 We run the 8 outs into 8 channels on the board via a TRS to XLR patch snake. We like having more control over the mix at FOH. Old thread I know, but have you run into issues doing this? Specifically phantom power related or signal degradation issues since you aren't using a DI box. I am just now switching to running 5 direct outs (kick/snare/hi-hat/toms/cymbals) to the board instead of 1 out from my master on my TD-20. The reason is because we got a bigger mixer now, heh. I've never had any issues with running from the master out on the TD-20 to a mic input without a DI (have for 2 years now...) but I want to be sure that will still be the case now that I am running direct outs on the TD-20 to the mixer. I am thinking of getting a 6 channel 1/4" to 1/4" patch snake (5 for the kit, 1 will be a send back for my monitor) and plugging in via the 1/4" line ins on the board instead of the mic inputs to avoid any potential phantom power issues. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted October 28, 2011 Members Share Posted October 28, 2011 The potential for both damage and noise are there without using a direct box. Use a passive transformer isolated box. Luck is something that happens until it doesn't. It's only then that you realize how lucky you were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JoeDirt Posted October 28, 2011 Members Share Posted October 28, 2011 http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/DI800.aspx Yes... I know, the dreaded B word. But that should do the trick, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members twostone Posted October 28, 2011 Members Share Posted October 28, 2011 The potential for both damage and noise are there without using a direct box. Use a passive transformer isolated box.Luck is something that happens until it doesn't. It's only then that you realize how lucky you were. Think Age was refering to one of these http://www.americanmusical.com/Item--i-ART-T8-LIST Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted October 29, 2011 Members Share Posted October 29, 2011 http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/DI800.aspxYes... I know, the dreaded B word. But that should do the trick, right? Nope, wrong tool for the job. PASSIVE TRANSFORMER ISOLATED. This is an active DI and I do not think it's isolate either not checked but at that price you can't put 8 isolation transformers in a box along with the other crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted October 29, 2011 Members Share Posted October 29, 2011 Think Age was refering to one of these http://www.americanmusical.com/Item--i-ART-T8-LIST Correct, any number of products like this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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