Members Ryan. Posted June 25, 2010 Members Share Posted June 25, 2010 We have a gig coming up at a local bar in my area. The stage backs up to a wall that is either painted sheetrock or steel (a combo of the two). I'm thinking about asking our singer to provide us with a big square of black carpet padding to drape behind the stage (and writing our band name in white tape on it). What will this do to/for our sound? Is it good to have the reflection off the rear wall or bad? Or is the answer going to be... "it depends." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mogwix Posted June 25, 2010 Members Share Posted June 25, 2010 It depends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ryan. Posted June 25, 2010 Author Members Share Posted June 25, 2010 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mogwix Posted June 25, 2010 Members Share Posted June 25, 2010 Ideally you want a non-reflective stage area. Reflective surfaces around the stage create standing waves that make ringing out the monitors a chore and create problems with mic bleed. Brick walled stages are the worst. Having a large backdrop to hang on the back wall is generally a good idea, but now there's other problems... like getting the backdrop, getting the backdrop to the gig (they're a lot more hassle than you'd think), hanging the backdrop (again, lots of hassle), and all the time needed to move, hang, take down, and move it again. Depending on the size, it's probably not going to be a big deal in your case, I'm just saying. Our backdrop is huge, heavy, cost us a lot of money, and is a total pain to store and transport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ryan. Posted June 25, 2010 Author Members Share Posted June 25, 2010 Well my plan... our singer does flooring, so I'm just going to have him pick up a 6'x10' piece of the thickest black carpet pad he can get (free) and then use white duct tape to write our name on it. And just hang it behind the drumkit. In this case, I think ANY soft surface in this bar will help control sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members scarecrowbob Posted June 25, 2010 Members Share Posted June 25, 2010 The other thing is that to alter the physical properties of the walls in any predictable r effective way is very difficult. A packing blanket or carpet padding on the wall is very ineffective for most problematic frequencies and only does a very little to stop high frequency reflections. So no, it probably won't do anything acoustically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ryan. Posted June 25, 2010 Author Members Share Posted June 25, 2010 Hmmm... interesting. What stops the high freqs? That triangle foam stuff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jwlussow Posted June 25, 2010 Members Share Posted June 25, 2010 It depends. Deja Vu..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members samkokajko Posted June 25, 2010 Members Share Posted June 25, 2010 You also could potentially get the bar in trouble if the fire marshall comes by. A lot of authorities don't really dig carpet or flammable materials covering walls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rwhealey Posted June 25, 2010 Members Share Posted June 25, 2010 Carpet is not a particularly good absorber because it absorbs a bit of high frequencies and still reflects low and mid frequencies. Renting theatrical curtain ("pipe and drape") might be a better idea. It should also be fireproofed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Phil Clark Posted June 25, 2010 Members Share Posted June 25, 2010 Forget the depends (unless you want to wear them for when the reflections cause feedback that make you pee yourself). Reflections from solid walls are a bad thing, and make feedback virtually inevitable. And the one thing worse than a solid brick wall is mirrors. Get a supply of Gaffers Tape and Black moving blankets and tape the moving blankets to the wall. Even a little goes a long way to cutting down problem reflections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lifeloverwg Posted June 25, 2010 Members Share Posted June 25, 2010 I disagree a bit with Mogwix. In my experience, just about anything helps, even moderately light weight material and it especially helps with the high frequencies. The heavier the material, the better the absorption and the lower a frequency it can affect. Nothing easy to hang will affect anything but higher mids and up however. Heavy theatre curtains are a big help on reflective stages. Any material you do hang will work better if hung a bit away from the wall and I won't hang anything that isn't flame retardant. As noted, the problem comes with how to reliably hang it and pipe and drape type stand are your best option since most venue won't have or won't let you create tie off points. Winston Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted June 25, 2010 Members Share Posted June 25, 2010 Playing in a dead reflective space sucks. My opinion is you want to play from an acoustically live end into an acoustically dead end. The "depends" part is how close you are to the back wall. You don't want echos off the wall (actually from either end) back up onto the stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ryan. Posted June 25, 2010 Author Members Share Posted June 25, 2010 Playing in a dead reflective space sucks. My opinion is you want to play from an acoustically live end into an acoustically dead end. The "depends" part is how close you are to the back wall. You don't want echos off the wall (actually from either end) back up onto the stage. We are RIGHT against the back wall. Thats the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ryan. Posted June 25, 2010 Author Members Share Posted June 25, 2010 This is the wall: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted June 25, 2010 Members Share Posted June 25, 2010 Carpet is very effective against HF reflections. Even mid reflections. http://www.sae.edu/reference_material/pages/Coefficient%20Chart.htm Now the problem is that most venues will not allow you to take something like that to their walls, and then there's the very real issue of lack of flamability rating for vertical surface installation. That's reason enough why it's not going to be acceptable in most venues. There is carpet like materials specifically for vertical surfaces, fire retardant to class A ratings CA. SoundChannel is one trade name for a product that we use on our acoustic consulting projects. It's not cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted June 28, 2010 Members Share Posted June 28, 2010 We are RIGHT against the back wall. Thats the problem. No ... right up against the wall is a good thing. That way the echo time is very short and not destructive. If you were 25 feet from the back wall it would be a problem. How far are you from the back wall? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ryan. Posted June 28, 2010 Author Members Share Posted June 28, 2010 No ... right up against the wall is a good thing. That way the echo time is very short and not destructive. If you were 25 feet from the back wall it would be a problem.How far are you from the back wall? Wait you mean the front wall? Or the back wall? Behind us is RIGHT THERE. We are up against it. In front of us we probably have 50 ft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members twostone Posted June 28, 2010 Members Share Posted June 28, 2010 This is the wall: How far are the side walls away from you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ryan. Posted June 28, 2010 Author Members Share Posted June 28, 2010 How far are the side walls away from you? Stage right, the wall is about 6 feet from us... Stage left actually heads into the bathroom and the bar... Probably 15 feet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members twostone Posted June 28, 2010 Members Share Posted June 28, 2010 One thing I notice is your drummer's monitor is almost pointed right at the brick wall. I would aim that wedge right at stage left wall since that has the longest distance might require moving the mic around a bit to help reduce FB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ryan. Posted June 28, 2010 Author Members Share Posted June 28, 2010 One thing I notice is your drummer's monitor is almost pointed right at the brick wall. I would aim that wedge right at stage left wall since that has the longest distance might require moving the mic around a bit to help reduce FB. Actually we now have his mon on a stand pointed the way you're saying! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted June 28, 2010 Members Share Posted June 28, 2010 So what problem are you trying to address? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ryan. Posted June 28, 2010 Author Members Share Posted June 28, 2010 Well, the point was that this whole place is just a sound bouncing room. So the initial question was about drapping a black piece of carpet padding behind us (with our band name in white duct tape) to help decrease some of the bounciness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members twostone Posted June 28, 2010 Members Share Posted June 28, 2010 Well, the point was that this whole place is just a sound bouncing room. So the initial question was about drapping a black piece of carpet padding behind us (with our band name in white duct tape) to help decrease some of the bounciness. Until a crowd shows up to help soak up the sound your only line of defense is to turn down. I do clubs a helluva lot worse then what you posted. Glass mirror walls all round the stage with a low tin ceiling above the stage and until a crowd shows I have to keep the volume down so it's not bouncing back biting me in the ass. Usually I just start off with just a touch of kick and vocal only on the mains and vocal only on the front wedges. Little, bass, guitar and vocal on the drum wedge. Just because you have every thing miced out doesn't mean you gotta run it all thru the FOH. You need to go out and listen to what the stage wash and see what's missing then add what's missing is what I do. Then wait till the body count adds up then bring in the other miced instruments. The only gig I ever did that when I showed up the place was already packed was a New Years gig 2 years ago OKC . Usually most gigs when we start off the place is about 1/4 way full, but then by the end of the night the place is packed. I have the guitarist with a wireless and go out into the crowd FOH listening zone and cue me for each set since I'm mixing on stage. That's all I can do. be nice to have a sound person like some gigs we do that has a in house system and a dedicated experienced sound person always love those gigs the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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