Need suggestions on new top speakers

[Vinny D]

I do also like the RCF suggestions, and happen to have a near new pair of powered ART322As that would cost about the same as the E12B & processor.

 

 

The powered ART322A's would be the way to go IMO.

[J the D]

Look for a pair of used Yorkville EF-508s. They have a true 2" exit driver, and are very well matched to the 608s. I run my 508s over the Yorkie 808 subs. The tops run off a QSC RMX 1850 in dual mono and the subs run off an RMX 2450 in dual mono. I know they are rated for more power but I never seem to run out of headroom and still have the original drivers. I use the Yorkie crossover which also has a limiter circuit. Get lots of compliments, primarily due to those 2" drivers. They are very, very smooth, especially with vocals.

[335BoB]

If interested here is the part you need to fix your driver problem. http://www.soundspeakerrepair.com/dwp/jbl/JRX125-2412-diaphragm.htm

 

 

Wish my diaphrams were that cheap!!!

[Unalaska]

Diaphrams are always cheap compare to 18 years of child support!

[guitarjrh]

How? HPF?

 

 

The OP stated that he had limiters in one of his responses.

[agedhorse]

 

The OP stated that he had limiters in one of his responses.

 

 

Note that having limiters and using/calibrating them properly for the application are two different things. Hence my question.

[badhabit]

 

If it were me I'd buy the used yamaha's in a heart beat. They are excellent speakers, but getting parts would be tough and finding more for expanding would be tough too. I'm in a situation where I want to buy another (3rd) pair of tops, JBL MS105, and it's really tough to get them. FWIW I reload the box with my own drivers, not recommended for most people but for me it's been great.

 

 

I'm confused. Which Yamaha's are you referring to ?

[guitarjrh]

Note that having limiters and using/calibrating them properly for the application are two different things. Hence my question.

The reason I posted in the first place was to get Absurd to comment on those tops with the LS608's. I own the same subs and have considered those tops, but have not heard them. They have been given good reviews and seem to be an excellent value with the recent price decrease.

I am no limiter expert, but let's see if I can get close.

2450 = 1300W @ 8 ohms
LS608 rated at 800W @ 8 Ohms

dB=10 log(1300/800) = 10 log(1.625) = 10 log(.210) = 2.1 dB reduction necessary

Alternatively E=SQRT(800*8) = 80V max output

HPF = 50Hz (your other question)

OK. I'm ready for my "schoolin" now.

[Shaster]

The reason I posted in the first place was to get Absurd to comment on those tops with the LS608's. I own the same subs and have considered those tops, but have not heard them. They have been given good reviews and seem to be an excellent value with the recent price decrease. I am no limiter expert, but let's see if I can get close. 2450 = 1300W @ 8 ohms LS608 rated at 800W @ 8 Ohms dB=10 log(1300/800) = 10 log(1.625) = 10 log(.210) = 2.1 dB reduction necessary Alternatively E=SQRT(800*8) = 80V max output HPF = 50Hz (your other question) OK. I'm ready for my "schoolin" now.

We all need to read the fine print - the LS608's are 400 watts - 800 watts program. It's clearly stated but IME it's easy to miss.

[agedhorse]

The reason I posted in the first place was to get Absurd to comment on those tops with the LS608's. I own the same subs and have considered those tops, but have not heard them. They have been given good reviews and seem to be an excellent value with the recent price decrease. I am no limiter expert, but let's see if I can get close. 2450 = 1300W @ 8 ohms LS608 rated at 800W @ 8 Ohms dB=10 log(1300/800) = 10 log(1.625) = 10 log(.210) = 2.1 dB reduction necessary Alternatively E=SQRT(800*8) = 80V max output HPF = 50Hz (your other question) OK. I'm ready for my "schoolin" now.

 

Pretty darn close... excellent in fact.

 

Now to execute this, you will have to look at the rated sensitivity of the amp IN BRIDGE MODE (often very different than in stereo mode) and look up the nomenclature used in YOUR limiter because the numbers used can be relative to any number of scales depending on the manufacture and even model of DSP. So you will have to convert to a common scale (I typically use dBu) and subtract 2.1dB from the rated sensitivity threshold. Then you will want to verify this because sometimes manufacturer numbers are not accurate. (yeah I know, but I have seen it enough)

 

Now, your 800 watt speakers are really 400 watts RMS (continuous) so you will want to consider this when picking a limiter threshold. With a 50Hz HPF (18dB/oct on the RMX), if you were a little careful you might be ok with an 800 watt threshold but if it were me I would pull it back a dB or two if I planned on keeping the speakers for a while.

[monthlymixcd]

 

I'm confused. Which Yamaha's are you referring to ?

 

 

Linked CL ad from post #8 in this thread... they are awesome cabs and if they were closer to me I'd snag them and add the hardware needed for portable sound. A steal at that price... even with the extra work to get them gigable.

[guitarjrh]

We all need to read the fine print - the LS608's are 400 watts - 800 watts program. It's clearly stated but IME it's easy to miss.

 

 

Yes, thank you for mentioning this. I am aware of Yorkville's spec's, but I can see where others might apply the "1.5 to 2.0" factor to their number, with less than excellent results.

 

I believe Yorkville says, "apply no more power than this" when referring to their speaker power ratings. So, no more than 800W in this case.

[guitarjrh]

Pretty darn close... excellent in fact. Now to execute this, you will have to look at the rated sensitivity of the amp IN BRIDGE MODE (often very different than in stereo mode) and look up the nomenclature used in YOUR limiter because the numbers used can be relative to any number of scales depending on the manufacture and even model of DSP. So you will have to convert to a common scale (I typically use dBu) and subtract 2.1dB from the rated sensitivity threshold. Then you will want to verify this because sometimes manufacturer numbers are not accurate. (yeah I know, but I have seen it enough) Now, your 800 watt speakers are really 400 watts RMS (continuous) so you will want to consider this when picking a limiter threshold. With a 50Hz HPF (18dB/oct on the RMX), if you were a little careful you might be ok with an 800 watt threshold but if it were me I would pull it back a dB or two if I planned on keeping the speakers for a while.

 

 

Thank you AH.

 

I understand your comments on the different devices. Very helpful.

 

I also understand the Yorkville rating, but it's always worth mentioning since they do things a little differently from other manufacturers.

 

Thanks again.

[agedhorse]

 

Thank you AH. I understand your comments on the different devices. Very helpful. I also understand the Yorkville rating, but it's always worth mentioning since they do things a little differently from other manufacturers. Thanks again.

 

 

They really don;t do anything different except that they conveniently don't mention the continuous or average rated power. I have reconed enough Yorkville drivers to know that there's nothing different about their ratings other than that way they state them.

[Old Fart Rocker]

If interested here is the part you need to fix your driver problem. http://www.soundspeakerrepair.com/dwp/jbl/JRX125-2412-diaphragm.htm

 

 

That's cool. Thanks for the link.

[Old Fart Rocker]

 

Pretty darn close... excellent in fact. Now to execute this, you will have to look at the rated sensitivity of the amp IN BRIDGE MODE (often very different than in stereo mode) and look up the nomenclature used in YOUR limiter because the numbers used can be relative to any number of scales depending on the manufacture and even model of DSP. So you will have to convert to a common scale (I typically use dBu) and subtract 2.1dB from the rated sensitivity threshold. Then you will want to verify this because sometimes manufacturer numbers are not accurate. (yeah I know, but I have seen it enough) Now, your 800 watt speakers are really 400 watts RMS (continuous) so you will want to consider this when picking a limiter threshold. With a 50Hz HPF (18dB/oct on the RMX), if you were a little careful you might be ok with an 800 watt threshold but if it were me I would pull it back a dB or two if I planned on keeping the speakers for a while.

 

 

Thanks for all of the responses. Please excuse my lack of technical knowledge. What does all of this mean? Should I be running the 608's in bridge-mono mode? Or am I better off running them in stereo? If bridge mono is the answer, can you guys tell me how the dip switches in the 2450 should be set. Also, should I just take the summed low output from the dbx if running mono? Again, thanks for all of the input. I'm learning a lot from you guys!

[Harmonycat]

Run in stereo with 500 rms/1000 watts peak is a 30 db SPL max gain.....theoretical
Running in bridged mode and limited to 800 rms/ 1600 watts peak is a 32 db gain....theoretical.
You have a theoretical difference of 2 db.

In reality, those extra 600 watts peak will produce more wear and tear on the mechanical parts of the speaker such as the surround and spider assembly.
Furthermore that extra 600 watts peak will produce alot more heat.

Together they will produce enough compression and mechanical losses to limit the extra ouput to less than 1 db, which is all but inaudable. That happens because those kinds of losses become much more prevalent once you pass the half way point towards the woofer's maximum rating.

All that you will achieve is to wear out your subwoofer prematurely.

So what is the point of doing that if you can't hear a difference?

I have subs from 1987 and mains with the original woofers from 1985.

The subs have less than 150 shows on them and mains have over 600 shows on them.

They still work beautifully.

I for one have never been in the business of reconing or replacement of worn or damaged speakers.

I have always been in the business of making money.

A wise man once said that he was not inclined to put more than 500-600 rms into any speaker.....

I have a tendency to agree with him, so I run my gear that way.

In this case it is in stereo.

[Old Fart Rocker]

 

Run in stereo with 500 rms/1000 watts peak is a 30 db SPL max gain..... theoretical Running in bridged mode and limited to 800 rms/ 1600 watts peak is a 32 db gain.... theoretical. You have a theoretical difference of 2 db. In reality, those extra 600 watts peak will produce more wear and tear on the mechanical parts of the speaker such as the surround and spider assembly. Furthermore that extra 600 watts peak will produce alot more heat. Together they will produce enough compression and mechanical losses to limit the extra ouput to less than 1 db, which is all but inaudable. That happens because those kinds of losses become much more prevalent once you pass the half way point towards the woofer's maximum rating. All that you will achieve is to wear out your subwoofer prematurely. So what is the point of doing that if you can't hear a difference? I have subs from 1987 and mains with the original woofers from 1985. The subs have less than 150 shows on them and mains have over 600 shows on them. They still work beautifully. I for one have never been in the business of reconing or replacement of worn or damaged speakers. I was in the business of making money. A wise man once said that he not be inclined tp put more than 500-600 rms in to any speaker..... I have a tendency to agree with him, so I run my gear that way. In this case it is in stereo.

 

 

Thanks. Sticking with stereo operation sounds like the best way to go.

[agedhorse]

 

Thanks for all of the responses. Please excuse my lack of technical knowledge. What does all of this mean? Should I be running the 608's in bridge-mono mode? Or am I better off running them in stereo? If bridge mono is the answer, can you guys tell me how the dip switches in the 2450 should be set. Also, should I just take the summed low output from the dbx if running mono? Again, thanks for all of the input. I'm learning a lot from you guys!

 

 

Oh good God not bridged!!! That would be >1200 watts RMS into each ~400 watt box. Not much room for any kind of accident without catastrophic damage.

 

I would recommend stereo (that's 500 watts per box and plenty), limiters on, high pass filters on and set to 30Hz if you are careful but 50Hz is probably safer.

[guitarjrh]

Thanks for all of the responses. Please excuse my lack of technical knowledge. What does all of this mean? Should I be running the 608's in bridge-mono mode? Or am I better off running them in stereo? If bridge mono is the answer, can you guys tell me how the dip switches in the 2450 should be set. Also, should I just take the summed low output from the dbx if running mono? Again, thanks for all of the input. I'm learning a lot from you guys!

 

 

Your confusion stems from a dumbass suggestion by me (bridging, rather than stereo), based on an incorrect assumption. I know better than to assume, but did so anyway. My mistake.

 

My appologies to all. I will try to avoid such posts in the future.

[Unalaska]

Every now and then I'll run a PA with a Yamaha P5000 dual mono, ch1 subs, ch2 tops. I'm always pleasently surprised how loud 750w @ 4 (2 boxes per channel) really is.

[DBR]

How about the NX 55P. It is a powered 12' and should be a good match for those.