Members dennis a Posted May 8, 2011 Members Share Posted May 8, 2011 Now I'm not convinced that the differences are great enough to warrent worry As you know, I suffer from acute anal retention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted May 9, 2011 Author Members Share Posted May 9, 2011 Nothing wrong with checking and double-checking when it's your ass on the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dogoth Posted May 12, 2011 Members Share Posted May 12, 2011 The question comes up can I do a better design job than the speaker company's engineers? I at least use their tunings as a start point...especially xo points. That's been my MO for years. What the manufacturer says is a starting point but often for a specific application a variation of the original spec works better. If you have to vary too far though, either you're doing something wrong or, as Aged has probably found, the manufacturer made a mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted May 12, 2011 Author Members Share Posted May 12, 2011 I just pulled the data from the DR260 and it matches the published data. Who knows what happened, but it's so far apart from all the other models that are very similar to the 712 that something is just not right. AND, my preset sounds considerably better without as much eq. too. I sure wonder what went wrong here. When I get the test DSP back, I'll list some of my development parameters for the 712M and maybe if I get some time, with the 718's I have sitting out in the shop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jlb Posted May 14, 2011 Members Share Posted May 14, 2011 I just pulled the data from the DR260 and it matches the published data. Who knows what happened, but it's so far apart from all the other models that are very similar to the 712 that something is just not right. AND, my preset sounds considerably better without as much eq. too. I sure wonder what went wrong here.When I get the test DSP back, I'll list some of my development parameters for the 712M and maybe if I get some time, with the 718's I have sitting out in the shop. I tried the DR 260 settings for the first half of a band rehersal and your recommended settings for the second half. Much better results with your settings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted May 14, 2011 Author Members Share Posted May 14, 2011 I was talking with another industry engineer about this today, he looked at the data and is as puzzled as I am. Does not make any sense. I really wonder what happened behind the scenes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members IsildursBane Posted May 16, 2011 Members Share Posted May 16, 2011 I was talking with another industry engineer about this today, he looked at the data and is as puzzled as I am. Does not make any sense. I really wonder what happened behind the scenes. It's not just that something in there is broken? You're sure it was working as designed? -Dan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted May 16, 2011 Author Members Share Posted May 16, 2011 It's not just that something in there is broken? You're sure it was working as designed? -Dan. Yes, I have plenty of these and I'm pretty familiar with the inner workings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members IsildursBane Posted May 16, 2011 Members Share Posted May 16, 2011 Yes, I have plenty of these and I'm pretty familiar with the inner workings woops, I thought you were talking about that BBE dsp. -Dan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted May 16, 2011 Author Members Share Posted May 16, 2011 Oh, sorry... regarding the BBE, it went back to them with a detailed analysis of the problems I encountered and they said they would look into it. We will see what they come back with. The frustrating thing is that it's close enough that just a little more work would make it a very viable piece IMO. There's no sound quality issues, that's a good plus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jlb Posted May 22, 2011 Members Share Posted May 22, 2011 Aged, just wondering if you have had the chance to run the 712's and 718's together. Sorry to keep bothering, but I'm real interested in what you would come up with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted May 22, 2011 Author Members Share Posted May 22, 2011 Aged, just wondering if you have had the chance to run the 712's and 718's together. Sorry to keep bothering, but I'm real interested in what you would come up with. NOt yet but BBE sent me a new DSP but no comments about what they found. I will analyze this new unit to see if it has the same quirks. Off to load out a system of 18 line array boxes and 6 near fills. Anybody watch the Hangtown MX race on Speed Network yesterday? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gspointer Posted May 22, 2011 Members Share Posted May 22, 2011 NOt yet but BBE sent me a new DSP but no comments about what they found. I will analyze this new unit to see if it has the same quirks.Off to load out a system of 18 line array boxes and 6 near fills. Anybody watch the Hangtown MX race on Speed Network yesterday? Yes I did, although the speed network was 450's moto 2 at 8am local today, 250's moto 2 9 am local. Moto 2's were not live. The live programming was moto 1 only, (each class) and they aired on Fuel tv. Pretty darn good start to the series. I was a bit suprised to see Dungey and Reed gap Villipoto 2 times. I expect him to run a bit better later in the year. It is a bummer to see Alessi out for a few weeks, and I was hoping Canard would be ready, but he is still recovering from a practice crash during SX season. Chistophe Pourcel did not run as well as I thought he would, but he is on a sattelite team and hasn't had much time to test yet. Also great to see Kevin Windham do pretty well. (he is the old dog in the series). Hard to believe Chad Reed almost retired last year. He started his own team, and finished, I think, 4 points behind SX series winner Ryan Villipoto, and is currently tied for first (first race so we will see how it holds up) with last years outdoors winner Ryan Dungey. (Dungey was very impressive last year, winning both 450 titles in his rookie season. This year he was 1 thrown chain away from possibly repeating in SX) As long as the top guys stay healthy, it should be a stellar season. Regarding the 250's, a great start for Mitch Payton's team, finishing 1-2-3 in moto 2, and watching Blake Baggett run that hard at the end, and set that fast of laps that late was awesome. There are a few other guys that should keep the 250 class pretty interesting this year also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted May 23, 2011 Author Members Share Posted May 23, 2011 There were some good runs and tight packs this year. I didn't see any of it on Speed or Fuel, how did it look and sound? I am beat, but the heavy equipment operators up there are great folks, actiually everybody that I had the opportunity to work with were great as usual. Loaded in and out with a boom lift and an extended reach fork lift. Ran the entire PA off of a 45kW genny, I set it up and calibrated the controls, tested for proper regulator control loop gain and stability before hooking things up and it ran 120 hours straight with a couple refills of the day tank. Worked perfectly. Total of 14 QSC amps, mostly PLX3402's with 1202's for HF's. Incidently, where the FOH processing came from a land line and the racks/stacks were powered by the genny, it's essential to transformer isolate with open pin 1 between them, otherwise you run the risk of damaging the output of the drive or the input of the receive from excessive common mode voltage (impressed) on the ground. There was exactly 1000' of balanced cable between the mixer's output (transformer driven) and the DSP inputs. Absolutely silent on the noise front. Hum and noise were over 100dB down which is just about the limits of the electronics. The set-up covered about 300 degreees, 3 modules of 6 line array boxes covering ~90 degrees and 1 set of near fills covering an ancillary area. That's 18 x pro 1.5" drivers on very efficient horns crossed around 1.2kHz and 36 x 10" neo drivers. Sounded quite good, even at 500 feet. I didn't get any pictures but will look to see if anybody from the organization posted some. I'm pretty tired, this really is becoming a younger person's trade IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gspointer Posted May 23, 2011 Members Share Posted May 23, 2011 The TV feed is all I heard, it was fine. If you are able to get intelligable vocals over the din of those 4 strokes they all run now, that is a substantial system. I cant remember for sure, but I think each bike is sound tested to be under 102db at 1 meter. The catch is, they seem to measure a bit off axis, and with the bike at no load running 3500rpm. The bikes hit the limiter somewhere north of 10.5k. Put 40 of those on the gate, and I can't imagine how loud it is. This is a link to the only pic I have found so far. It was taken by Guy B. and is hosted on his site, vitalmx.com http://www.vitalmx.com/photos/features/Photo-Blast-Hangtown-2011,36194/Brett-Metcalfe,47639/GuyB,64 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted May 23, 2011 Author Members Share Posted May 23, 2011 That's about right for sound testing, and yes it's a substantial system and proper implimentation in a difficult environment that makes it work. That photo shows to a reasonable extent the scale of the tower steel. The transmission lines are >100kV and we are 36' in front of the closest lineset, and 50' below at the top of the tower. The transmission towers are really massive. It should be noted that radiated noise in this system was rejected down to -100dB give or take. Even I am impressed that the transformer isolated audio lines and the rest of the gear rejected so much EMI (primarily electrostatic radiation) given the proximity. A couple of years ago, we were contacted about developing a way to improve the coverage for the live audience that would also be more friendly to the folks running the event as well as the TV coverage. We developed a line array approach and one of the (very talented) Hangtown guys fabricated the steel tower (weighs about 5 tons with the outriggers) that this year sits about 35' high. It was a test of the concept that was adopted at most of the sanctioning organization's other events last year and this year we again fine tuned the approach for the organization. I was pretty pleased with the results this year and will fine tune with a new compresson/limiting algorithem next year to help combat the lower levels along with the noise penalty. This has been an enginereing project in motion, paying dividends to their other events by allowing the other vendors to see one that was done successfully. Of course it costs more that the old way, but for the bigger events it's the way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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