Affordable Condenser Mic that works on 15V Phantom Power

[joemmi]

Hi,

 

I am mainly a keys player but want to add some singing and am this looking for a first Mike to start with. Since we use a Yamaha Mixer that has only 15V Phantom Power, I wanted to know which Condenser Mike of say

 

The reason I want a condenser is that I heard a pal's Sennheiser Mike and it sounds so much better than the standard dynamic SMs we are using on stage.

 

Anyone has the same problem with below 48V and still gets some Mikes to work

(Brands I have considered so far where AKG, Behringer (in particular the C-1), ATH,...

 

Too bad Yamaha has this flaw for some of ther Mixers and Monitors, but hopefully there is a way to still use them withou an additional tool!

 

Thanks!

joemmi

[soul-x]

15v should work on most mics, but (on a specific basis) the voltage requirement will probably be listed in the spec of whatever mic you're shopping.

 

But I am pretty sure you may be attributing the wrong factors to the quality of your buddy's sound -- or at the very least, simply overgeneralizing. I can't think of a single live application for which I'd take a Behringer C-1 or anything similar to it over a 58.

 

I also wonder what model of Sennheiser your buddy is using. They're a company that I kind of think of as being notable in particular for their dynamic mics -- things like 604s, 609s and 421s.

[soul-x]

I'll add that the 15v phantom on the Yamaha mixer isn't a flaw, so much as maybe a "zero cost feature".

 

15v is the voltage that the mixer's internal components operate at. They tap into it to allow you to run some lower powered external devices. A full implementation of 48v could have been designed in... but definitely not at the same exact price.

[Unalaska]

I wouldn't be concerned with the 15v thing, basically mics will work and there most likely won't be a difference that you'll notice or care about. Best thing to do is demo the mic with the mixer and a pair of headphones.

[WynnD]

I would expect the only noticeable difference is that a 48 volt phantom power will give you a much hotter mic signal. Seeing that condensor mics are usually very hot, the lower voltage will produce a more normal signal.

[joemmi]

Hi soul-x and thank you!

Makes sense that its a cost issue, but still the opinions of whether a 48V specifice Mic will work diverge from (99% of all Mikes work) to only if it says 9-52V it works.

The ones I were looking at all specified 48V so I was wondering if that is to understand strictly.

 

In the end, I just talked to my buddy and he said that it was in fact not the Sennheiser that he was using at that particular session but this one:

http://www.thomann.de/gb/the_tbone_sct700_roehrenmikrofon.htm

Which as I now see has an external power supply anyhow given it has an integrated tube preamp.

So in this case Phantom is probably no issue anyway.

On a side note, also on the effect of tube preamps there seems quite a range of opinions of whether they do any good to vocal sounds...

Tough decisions for a non-expert.

[agedhorse]

48 volts will not give you a hotter signal. Whatthey will give is added dynamic range IF that's an issue. Generally for a vocal mic that is not. AND, that would only apply primarily 48 volt specific mics.

 

Almost all common live audio condenser mics will operate properly on 15 volt phantom. It's not a big deal. List the mics you are considering and I'll look it up in my database.

 

Incidently, all of the (common) condenser mics used on hand held wireless transmitters will work 100% properly on 15v phantom. These all use low bias voltages of ~3 volts or are self-biased, and the impedance translator operates on

 

Tube preamps and a box mixer... time to address your real priorities IMO.

 

Your posted mic choice is IMO poor for live audio... really poor.

[joemmi]

Hi, thanks, so it might actually work even if it says only 48V.

Yeah sorry for the list I can understand it comprises just bad choices, probably better to rethink the exact purpose. Just wanted to enter the world of voice recording at home and on stage for backings on a budget

[agedhorse]

That's not what I said...

 

If is says ONLY 48 volts, then probably not BUT you need to check the manufacturer's technical support and engineering specs to be sure.

 

I would absoluetly recommend a quality dynamic mic for your application over this condenser and most actually.

[Shaster]

Good grief, as AH has pointed out, that mic looks like a terrible choice for live sound, in most applications.

 

If you're looking for that perceived condenser sizzle..... why not try a dynamic Shure Beta57 or one of the Sennheiser mics like the e845 (or even the e840 or e835).

 

If you simply must have a condenser mic, you could try something like the Shure Beta87 which is a condenser that's at least suited for live use.

 

I personally prefer dynamics, but I don't know your particular situation. Could be a condenser will work for you.

[WynnD]

 

48 volts will not give you a hotter signal.

 

 

I have noticed that my condensers on a long snake lose about 10 db of signal strength compared to the dynamic mics. I would have thought that difference was only because of reduced phantom power voltage due to the length of cabling. Thinking about it now, because this is only a bias voltage, the length of cable probably doesn't affect the voltage the mic sees. Maybe the audio differences are only in my mind. (AKG C1000s mic)

[agedhorse]

I have run C-1000's on a 300' snake with no loss of signal. Something else is up. You don't have an old battery inside do you? Some versioins have room for battery bias.

[WynnD]

I never leave batteries inside my condensers. I don't use that 100' snake very often. (Last time was August 2008) I really like those mics. Clean and lots of overtones. (Also seem to work pretty well for cymbals.) It might just be my memory slipping. (That's happening too much lately.)

[agedhorse]

I like the C-1000 for several applications myself.

[Dogoth]

I modified a couple of realistic PZM mics back in the 80s. They were spec'd for 1.5V. We fitted them with a 9V and they worked fine. They had about 10db more gain but overloaded about 10db earlier (which was OK as they were mostly used as area/recording mics anyway). In doing so you could run the front end of the mixer lower which seemed to be quieter (important if used as a room recording mic but not for a close vocal mic). Possibly the mic was noiser as well but it seemed the net gain in S/N ratio was better. I have had mics that drew so much current that a cheap "B" board that was 48V phantom (I checked it with a meter) wouldn't power them (well they would come up eventualy but it took minutes vs seconds with my Yamaha or Soundcraft boards "-)

 

As a lot of the folks here said. MOST condensers will work fine at 15V but check with the manufacturer. FWIW 12V & 15V phantom used to be fairly common in years gone by. I'd also agree that for a mix of live and recording use, a LIVE vocal condenser would work much better (15% loss for recording but 100% better for live use - that's the tradeoff).

 

Opinions: My favorite inexpensive condenser HH vocal mic is Groove tubes convertable. They are out of production (but just by a couple of years) and can be had for well under $100 used.