Well hello there. Compressor questions on the bass.

[Ryan.]

So, my band is doing a small amount of downsizing. I've replaced my Marshall half stack with a Fender 112 and our bassist is now going direct.

 

Last night I was using our compressor which is basically the older version of this:

 

 

Okay, so let me first show the chain. His bass is active, that went into a DI from audiopile, that went into channel 6 of the mixwiz, and the comp is through the insert.

 

I think I got it set to a setting that was workable, but really I'm not sure. Can any of you guys suggest some settings that will give me some things to think about?

 

Andy I know that I just need to listen and really understand what a comp does before I even put it in the chain, but still, I'd like to experiment and find out anyway.

 

The main point is to be sure he doesn't blow out my subs with a loud note and to create a more balanced mix.

 

So... any suggestions? Appreciated in advance.

 

 

Also, if we were to purchase something like this:

 

 

Would the DI from audiopile still be necessary in the chain?

[glepko]

BDDI, is, by definition, a DI - so replaces the DI. You may or may not like it better.

[gonzobassman]

The SansAmp would replace the existing DI. Compression is something you can't really "hear" (like a chorus,or phase shifter) until you get into some of the more extreme settings. I mean you can tell that it is working(so you can hear it),but it is not like an effect.Experiment with it.

[Ryan.]

 

The SansAmp would replace the existing DI. Compression is something you can't really "hear" (like a chorus,or phase shifter) until you get into some of the more extreme settings. I mean you can tell that it is working(so you can hear it),but it is not like an effect.Experiment with it.

 

 

Okay but what is a decent starting setting? How do I do gain staging with a comp in the mix? Etc...

[gonzobassman]

I have never ran that unit so I will wait (with interest) for one of the real pros to field that question!!! Lol

[sibyrnes]

 

I have never ran that unit so I will wait (with interest) for one of the real pros to field that question!!! Lol

 

 

I have no idea who here are considered the "real pros", but I earned my living playing bass for many years before moving into live sound so I'll venture an answer I hope is helpfull.

 

I usually use a small combo amp for bass, but for larger and louder gigs, I have used the Sans Amp directly into a power amp. It sounds great. I am a big fan of that product. It is a direct box, so you won't need another D.I. I also worked with a band that used the SansAmp directly into the PA with no on stage amp or speakers, just in-ears - worked great for that too.

 

I also have a couple of the DBX 166 that I use as gates on drums. Do you really need compression on the bass? I'll bet you don't. What are you trying to accomplish or correct? As a general rule, I think less compression is better than more. If you decide you do want to use the compressor, start with a ratio of 4-1 and the threshold at 0dB, slow attack and release times. Of course the threshold will depend the signal he is sending, but try to set it so you have no gain reduction during normal playing with gain reduction happening only during loud peaks. Use your ear from there. Have fun!

[abzurd]

The answer to whether he needs compression or not depends on his playing style and how much the technique varies during a show. Some here may disagree, but if the genre is rock, the instrument needing the least amount of dynamics is the bass. You don't want it to explode in the mix, but you also need it to provide a strong foundation at nearly all times the instrument is being played. The dynamics are usually when the bass drops out during a song. Some guys are all over the place so have to set the channel up to take the hottest signal the bassist will do. It's really annoying to hear the bass come and go be it from poor technique or because the playing style changes, leaving you wanting at lot more in all of some songs and parts of others. It's almost like poor mic technique.

 

So if your bass player is stays constant you probably don't need compression. If, on the other hand, he gets excited or does some slapping or goes from fingers to pick through the night, you may want to compress to keep a nice consistent bottom end.

[Ryan.]

My main concern is limiting I guess, not necessarily compression. I just don't want to clip anything because of excited picking.

[Ryan.]

The answer to whether he needs compression or not depends on his playing style and how much the technique varies during a show. Some here may disagree, but if you're genre is rock, the instrument needing the least amount of dynamics is the bass. You don't want it to explode in the mix, but you also need it to provide a strong foundation at nearly all times the instrument is being played. The dynamics are usually when the bass drops out during a song. Some guys are all over the place so have to set the channel up to take the hottest signal the bassist will do. It's really annoying to hear the bass come and go be it from poor technique or because the playing style changes and leaving you wanting at lot more in all of some songs and parts of others. It's almost like poor mic technique. So if your bass player is stays constant you probably don't need compression. If, on the other hand, he gets excited or does some slapping or goes from fingers to pick through the night, you may want to compress to keep a nice consistent bottom end.

 

Great reply, thank you.

[Ryan.]

 

I have no idea who here are considered the "real pros", but I earned my living playing bass for many years before moving into live sound so I'll venture an answer I hope is helpfull. I usually use a small combo amp for bass, but for larger and louder gigs, I have used the Sans Amp directly into a power amp. It sounds great. I am a big fan of that product. It is a direct box, so you won't need another D.I. I also worked with a band that used the SansAmp directly into the PA with no on stage amp or speakers, just in-ears - worked great for that too. I also have a couple of the DBX 166 that I use as gates on drums. Do you really need compression on the bass? I'll bet you don't. What are you trying to accomplish or correct? As a general rule, I think less compression is better than more. If you decide you do want to use the compressor, start with a ratio of 4-1 and the threshold at 0dB, slow attack and release times. Of course the threshold will depend the signal he is sending, but try to set it so you have no gain reduction during normal playing with gain reduction happening only during loud peaks. Use your ear from there. Have fun!

 

 

Thanks!

[dedmeet]

Another bass player chiming in here. First off, a giant +1 to the earlier post by sibyrnes. Frankly, he nails it.

 

Whenever I play, if I use an amp at all, I try to encourage the sound guy to use the post-EQ DI in my Hartke 3500 because I like to use a smidge of the compression built into the amp, which evens out my sound. So far, nothing but compliments from sound guys. The more I hear about the Sansamp DIs, though, the more I think one should be added to my gig bag!

 

I will say, though, that I hate it when the sound person compresses the ever living s--t out of my signal. Dynamics are a big part of Jazz, so compressing me into a 3dB dynamic range window sounds like ass. Doing that is almost as bad as the sound guy who put my signal ONLY in the subs; yup, nothing over 90Hz from my bass made it to the audience. For about 600 people that night, it sounded like I only played the bottom string on the bass.

[Axisplayer]

I would never compress bass for jazz unless the bassist was doing something terribly wrong, and if they were that bad, they probably couldn't play jazz to begin with.

[soul-x]

I have a general idea what Subs band sounds like (harder edged rock). It's not the type of stuff that benefits from huge dynamics -- it needs to almost always hit.

 

First off the sansamp has some intentional clipping built into it which will compress things a fair amount on it's own, so it also depends on how your bassist likes that thing set up.

 

But I'm gonna go a little more agressive than the consensus here, because I think it may suit the sound. At least worth a try:

4:1 ratio. Over easy on (soft knee). Moderate attack, slow release. Threshhold maybe as low as -10, aiming for LED peaks hitting 8-10 db gain reduction.

 

If that's too lifeless., lighten up a bit.

[Ryan.]

I have a general idea what Subs band sounds like (harder edged rock). It's not the type of stuff that benefits from huge dynamics -- it needs to almost always hit. First off the sansamp has some intentional clipping built into it which will compress things a fair amount on it's own, so it also depends on how your bassist likes that thing set up. 4:1 ratio. Over easy on (soft knee). Moderate attack, slow release. Threshold maybe as low as -10. Aim for LED peaks hitting 8-10 db gain reduction.

 

Thanks man, I'll give this a shot.

 

Your guys healthy yet? Our singer has 3 weeks until he can start practicing again. At least the hernia is out.

 

Edit: Or back in, I should say.

[soul-x]

Thanks man, I'll give this a shot. Your guys healthy yet? Our singer has 3 weeks until he can start practicing again. At least the hernia is out. Edit: Or back in, I should say.

 

Yeah. He was actually back in action back in December, but we held out another three months on getting back together, so Prieta could finish up their run, and so we all could just take a breather and enjoy our real lives.

 

Good luck to your singer. I hope to never experience one of those. Sounds horrible.

[DBR]

Abzurd, what you are saying is you don't like a dynamic bass? I am a very dynamic bass player. I like to play at different volumes due to the fact that I pay attention to the vocalist, and add dynamics to solos. I don't like to play loud at all and want to hear everything through the backline, if possible. I like a lot of vocals in the monitors so that I can give the correct dynamics. To me, a compressor would disrupt the dynamics I produce. You don't like a dynamic bass? Just curious

[soul-x]

With some music and bassists, expansive dynamics can really help the effectiveness of a bass part.

 

And with some music and bassists, expansive dynamics can really hurt the effectiveness of a bass part.

[Ryan.]

 

Abzurd, what you are saying is you don't like a dynamic bass? I am a very dynamic bass player. I like to play at different volumes due to the fact that I pay attention to the vocalist, and add dynamics to solos. I don't like to play loud at all and want to hear everything through the backline, if possible. I like a lot of vocals in the monitors so that I can give the correct dynamics . To me, a compressor would disrupt the dynamics I produce. You don't like a dynamic bass? Just curious

 

 

This post was not very dynamic.

[sibyrnes]

Well I think DBR does make sense. The role of the compressor is to control dynamics, but actually the player's fingers should be the best tool for that job.

 

 

I will say, though, that I hate it when the sound person compresses the ever living s--t out of my signal. Dynamics are a big part of Jazz, so compressing me into a 3dB dynamic range window sounds like ass. Doing that is almost as bad as the sound guy who put my signal ONLY in the subs; yup, nothing over 90Hz from my bass made it to the audience. For about 600 people that night, it sounded like I only played the bottom string on the bass.

 

 

Man, that sucks! I know I tried using a powered sub as a bass extension cab with my amp once and it was crossed over at 90hz. I won't be trying that again!

[dedmeet]

 

I would never compress bass for jazz unless the bassist was doing something terribly wrong, and if they were that bad, they probably couldn't play jazz to begin with.

 

 

You have just become my favorite sound guy ever...

[soul-x]

Honestly, you shouldn't need compressing anything at all on most jazz.

[soul-x]

 

Well I think DBR does make sense. The role of the compressor is to control dynamics, but actually the player's fingers should be the best tool for that job.

 

 

For some sounds, it's a combination of man and machine that produce it. Take the popular classic SVT sound for example: I think a big part of what makes it is the way it just crushes any peaks into harmonic mush.

 

That's part of the sound, and no fingers or pick alone can do that. In fact, generally, the finger/pick work for that sound is done in a way to encourage the natural compression (ie digging in).

[gonzobassman]

I use no external compression on my bass playing.When I use a pick,it is a light (.72mm) pick.When I use fingers it is mainly the nail on my index,and ring fingers.I use a very light touch that has taken years to be able to be consistant with.I don't mind letting bassists "sit-in" with the band,but where I sit the bass in the mix (based on my playing technique),almost anyone who does "sit-in",is way up in the mix.To me the tone suffers when you are beating the {censored} out of the bass,or any other instument.FWIW.

[agedhorse]

 

My main concern is limiting I guess, not necessarily compression. I just don't want to clip anything because of excited picking.

 

 

A compressor inserted willnot prevent clipping of the input gain stage of the console. Beware of a false sense of security.

[Ryan.]

 

A compressor inserted willnot prevent clipping of the input gain stage of the console. Beware of a false sense of security.

 

 

But the limiter portion of the DBX unit will?