Members LCK Posted April 14, 2015 Members Share Posted April 14, 2015 Hannah_Rebecca commented 04-13-2015, 016 PM "Thank you for your suggestion but I also feel that I should go with my gut instinct and keep those lines the way they are because those lines are some of my favorite. And the character isn't just a character. I wrote this from personal experience." That's the problem right there... If you do come back, even if just to lurk, you should take a listen to some of the songs written and posted by some of the members here; people like Lee Knight, Stickboy, Bee, MBFrancis, Rhino. These people are truly brilliant songwriters. And some of that brilliance has come from posting things back and forth, learning from one another, and giving each support and helpful ideas. As for me, I wrote a song back in 1975, which I thought was brilliant. Yet over the years I went back to it over and over again, making little changes here and there. And it's astonishing to think what a difference those changes have made, and how foolish I was to think the song was perfect as is when I first wrote it. Another example, Johnny Mercer -- one of the most successful, accomplished, and universally respected songwriters who's ever put words to music -- won an Oscar for his lyric to "The Days of Wine and Roses," but one word in it bugged him. So 10 years later, he revised his Oscar-winning lyric. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stickboymusic Posted April 15, 2015 Members Share Posted April 15, 2015 No, I realized I'm happy with my song, better yet I love my song and I'm very proud of it. Why get feedback when I'm not going to listen to it anyways. I'm not changing my song. I'm sorry you guys. This song is finished. Like another poster put maybe I should submit a song that isn't already "finished" in my mind. You are totally welcome here and we are all more than happy to help on your songwriting journey if that is what you want. Maybe post a song you're working on...include lyrics.... possibly a quick demo (even on a phone) to give us an idea of what you are trying to do. People WILL pick out things that maybe you think are great , of course you don't have to make ANY changes to anything you have written but it really is worth at least considering the advice and seeing if you can improve. Many a person has joined this place and then felt a little gutted when the song was criticized..... however... the ones that have embraced the help offered usually come out the other side much more happy and proud of what they have created. Please do come back though....and start a new thread if you have one in the pipeline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lane1777 Posted April 19, 2015 Members Share Posted April 19, 2015 I don`t get here much, saying that I really don`t think the people around here "judge, unless you ask them to.. I couldn`t find the link to listen or read, so I can`t offer any comment about it. But if I could...It wouldn`t be judging, just thought on the lyric and music, what I would change or keep. Its up to the artist to sort through all that and use some or lose it.. in the end if you come here and ask for that, and are shocked when you get it, and you are totally happy with your work? what are you doing here? [just my thought] wow L.C.K..talk about OCD..all cut and dried? one word? ....lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Chordptrn Posted April 19, 2015 Members Share Posted April 19, 2015 Just thought I'd add that the people who do the critiquing in this forum are all professional songwriters with many many Billboard Top 100 hits, Grammy awards, music degrees from Berklee, and platinum selling CD's. You should be grateful for their feedback and the time they spend listening to and analyzing what most times are songs that need drastic improvement from novice songwriters who know so much less than these experts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stickboymusic Posted April 20, 2015 Members Share Posted April 20, 2015 The problem wasn't people "judging" (it's quite ok to "judge" anything).... the problem was when the opening poster replied in a very reasonable manner, the people here then got all hurt and defensive and personal simply because she didn't bow to their opinion. All of the opening posters replies were reasonable and well mannered, and remember America is a free country and she's allowed to disagree. Is it a condition of entry here that people who submit songs must agree with every comment made, and if they disagree then they must shut up and say nothing? From reading this topic it seems to me that is what "some" people here think. Well I've got news for them ..... they don't down own this forum, and if someone doesn't 100% accept their opinions .... they'll have to learn to live with it. I don't think the issue was as you suggest. I think the issue was that the track was blatently being posted as self promotion. This forum is for work shopping songs. i.e you post a track because you WANT feedback and input. Of course you don't have to use any of it but when someone has taken the time to listen to your track and offer some input then just to say "no...i like my song.... i like that line as it is.." well what is the point? People got irked because essentially they are just wasting their time...... if the OP has just said "no - i like that line as it is.....but ill have a look and see if I think it warrents looking at now I have had some input" then yeh fine. Any way - I am sure you are just trolling - I certainly haven't seen you offer any advice to anyone on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stickboymusic Posted April 20, 2015 Members Share Posted April 20, 2015 No problem... maybe we can drive the "self promoters" away and you can drive the regulars away. Bye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stickboymusic Posted April 20, 2015 Members Share Posted April 20, 2015 I am sorry Hannah. I have behaved very disrespectfully. I am a very bad human Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bee3 Posted April 20, 2015 Members Share Posted April 20, 2015 Taking a wild guess here that rockaroonie is in Hannah's band. Hannah - again, please post up a work in progress and we'd be happy to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lane1777 Posted April 20, 2015 Members Share Posted April 20, 2015 I really don`t understand this..there are wonderful places for self-promotion and its a good thing we do that. I love to hear other people and their music. I don`t think Stickboy was personal, Its stamped right on the front of the forum! SONGWRITING WORKSHOP. can`t you kind of see what the guys are saying here? nobody is blowing-up or out of place, yet..hunt around there is a place to post finished songs, and Hannah can get something in here she really wants opinions on. or Her band. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mbfrancis Posted April 20, 2015 Members Share Posted April 20, 2015 Ah, you proved my point yet again. You don't get the answers "you" want from me, so you then resort to personal putdowns. "Some" of the people here didn't get the responses they wanted from Hannah_Rebecca, so they get all hurt and defensive towards her. You guys need to apologize for your poor behavior towards towards her, and then simply move on. Welcome, rockaroonie. Did you read the whole thread? Not sure your interest here, but the point was not that she defended her song, the point was she posted a song specifically *requesting feedback*, and when people took the time to listen to her song and offer feedback, she responded immediately that the song was great just as it was, that it was as she intended it. Like, she didn't even *consider* the feedback, that people might have a point. So why post it then? This is a forum to workshop your songs and get critical feedback, not to promote yourself. (What's a bummer is that the song would have seriously benefited from precisely the kind of feedback that this forum can provide.) So....she basically wasted everyone's time, hence the group response, which was admittedly judgmental and condescending in parts. She apologized, although now reading it it's not clear if it was "hey sorry guys for wasting all of your time" or "sorry guys I'm not changing my song." I like to think it was the former, and that she will come back and participate. But if not, that's OK, too. EDIT: Just realize Stick said the exact same thing in like half the words, ha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stickboymusic Posted April 20, 2015 Members Share Posted April 20, 2015 Welcome, rockaroonie. Did you read the whole thread? Not sure your interest here, but the point was not that she defended her song, the point was she posted a song specifically *requesting feedback*, and when people took the time to listen to her song and offer feedback, she responded immediately that the song was great just as it was, that it was as she intended it. Like, she didn't even *consider* the feedback, that people might have a point. So why post it then? This is a forum to workshop your songs and get critical feedback, not to promote yourself. (What's a bummer is that the song would have seriously benefited from precisely the kind of feedback that this forum can provide.) So....she basically wasted everyone's time, hence the group response, which was admittedly judgmental and condescending in parts. She apologized, although now reading it it's not clear if it was "hey sorry guys for wasting all of your time" or "sorry guys I'm not changing my song." I like to think it was the former, and that she will come back and participate. But if not, that's OK, too. EDIT: Just realize Stick said the exact same thing in like half the words, ha. Yeh I was going to criticise your wasted words. .... but I'd hate to offend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nat whilk II Posted April 20, 2015 Members Share Posted April 20, 2015 It's not always easy to gracefully accept or refuse advice. But if you post a tune here, you're going to get advised. That is the point of this place. There's no requirement to accept advice whatsoever. But there is a requirement to show that at least the advice was carefully considered before being rejected. And there's a world of difference between rejecting advice because you think your song is "perfect" or because some other people have said they like it, versus rejecting advice because you just don't think you can do better, advice and additional hard work notwithstanding. The value of this place is not in the top-100 credentials of the regulars. It's in the honest give and take of working stiffs just trying to write better material. Not a place to show off, not a place to wow the natives, not a place to think anyone gives a crap about credentials, and not a place to require anything but an honest desire to share, learn, and hopefully help someone else do a bit better. I like this place. nat whilk ii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lane1777 Posted April 21, 2015 Members Share Posted April 21, 2015 I guess someone has to say it..ok, rockaroone, I`m certainly not going to recommend someone to apologize for playing by the rules, and I think this might be the last post here, unless someone wants to add to this.. I do believe most here will move on, not much sense in beating a dead horse. I never like to see this kind of thing, I never got to read the lyric or listen.. and you just keep repeating yourself. and I should be typing to Hannah not you. [moving on now] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stickboymusic Posted April 22, 2015 Members Share Posted April 22, 2015 Yes sir. Whatever you say sir. How about you show some respect. You have just turned up throwing your weight around and laying down the law. Can someone delete this thread now and hopefully these pointless trolls won't come back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rsadasiv Posted April 22, 2015 Members Share Posted April 22, 2015 You guys should follow the rules of this forum and personally *RESPECT* new people here making their first posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bee3 Posted April 22, 2015 Members Share Posted April 22, 2015 I went back and re-read the first page of this thread. I really don't see any 'disrespect'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stickboymusic Posted April 22, 2015 Members Share Posted April 22, 2015 I went back and re-read the first page of this thread. I really don't see any 'disrespect'. Shhhhush!! Just do as the spambot says! You are not welcome with your "opinions"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stickboymusic Posted April 22, 2015 Members Share Posted April 22, 2015 Nah it's just banter mate - unless of course you are a robot - then yes that would be personal and I apologise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhino55 Posted April 22, 2015 Members Share Posted April 22, 2015 More immature, personal abuse from you. Would you rather he call you out for being the noodley guitar player with bad timing and weak tone on the track that was originally posted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhino55 Posted April 22, 2015 Members Share Posted April 22, 2015 see post 12 or don't and just keep trolling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lane1777 Posted April 22, 2015 Members Share Posted April 22, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members oldgitplayer Posted April 22, 2015 Members Share Posted April 22, 2015 I love the sound of bickering in the morning……….. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bee3 Posted April 23, 2015 Members Share Posted April 23, 2015 So far only 1 person has apologized to Hannah_Rebecca, and that person called himself an "internet jerk" in his apology. I guess the rest of you aren't man enough to apologize for your bad behavior and breach of forum rules. Kindly direct me to my post that you feel necessitates an apology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mbfrancis Posted April 23, 2015 Members Share Posted April 23, 2015 What an odd thread. Rockaroonie, the problem is that none of us agree with your assessment of the thread, and don't feel we have anything to apologize for. I responded to you at length above and tried to explain it, but you've ignored me. This is a good group, we did a quick soul search, and moved on - we're all OK with ourselves, thanks. You, on the other hand, seem bizarrely obsessed with defending the honor of poor hannah_rebecca, which demonstrates far more condescension and sexism than what you seem to be accusing us of. We would have treated a man the exact same way, and you don't seem to think hannah_rebecca can speak for herself. The irony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stickboymusic Posted April 23, 2015 Members Share Posted April 23, 2015 I admit it I am hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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