Members gonzobassman Posted August 14, 2012 Members Share Posted August 14, 2012 This past weekend I did sound for a three band event on Friday night(using a different system than mine),and although all turned out well it was cluster%$#k city!!! On the Saturday it was my system,one band(the headliner from the previous nights all original show).Got set up,and there was a problem with my left main.Sub worked,but not "right",and top was not working.Switched with a monitor cab,nothing.Swithched speaker cable,nothing.Swithced amps,nothing.Hooked original malfunctioning main up to right side and it worked fine.Figured the issue was in the crossover(DBX223XL blackface).Checked all connections and everything was hooked up correctly.All dip switches were positioned correctly.Was ready to bump left main off of right main and hobble through the show when my helper urged me to try it one more time.Hooked it up like I always do,and went back to my FOH tops amp (GX-5),and everything was perfect.I was pretty nervous as it was getting close time wise,and I listened for any problems on that side all night,nothing wrong.Everything worked as expected.I can't really say what almost an hour of trying everything,and getting no results at crunch time is like,but I'm sure some of you can relate.All I did was push the X100 dipswitch in,and back out (on the back of the crossover).I bought this unit used for $100 three years ago,so buying a brand new one is for sure the next purchase on my agenda,but I'm wondering if I may be missing something.In my mind(old,and burnt as it is),I have eliminated all possibilities of this issue being anything but the crossover.As always,thanks in advance for any insights into this "little" situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nchangin Posted August 14, 2012 Members Share Posted August 14, 2012 Kinda funny I had a 223 DBX xofer I bought used and my one beef with those xovers were the buttons. You couldn't really tell if they were in or out, and assume this was from wear and tear. If you had the freq button hit x100 that would explain why it didn't sound right as you had it crossed over at wrong freq. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted August 14, 2012 CMS Author Share Posted August 14, 2012 Possibly a cold solder joint somewhere in the box, and changing the X100 state was enough to make it pass signal again. Replacement or repair is defnitely in order, as you can expect this type of problem to not "self-correct":D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pro Sound Guy Posted August 14, 2012 Members Share Posted August 14, 2012 This past weekend I did sound for a three band event on Friday night(using a different system than mine),and although all turned out well it was cluster%$#k city!!! On the Saturday it was my system,one band(the headliner from the previous nights all original show).Got set up,and there was a problem with my left main.Sub worked,but not "right",and top was not working.Switched with a monitor cab,nothing.Swithched speaker cable,nothing.Swithced amps,nothing.Hooked original malfunctioning main up to right side and it worked fine.Figured the issue was in the crossover(DBX223XL blackface).Checked all connections and everything was hooked up correctly.All dip switches were positioned correctly.Was ready to bump left main off of right main and hobble through the show when my helper urged me to try it one more time.Hooked it up like I always do,and went back to my FOH tops amp (GX-5),and everything was perfect.I was pretty nervous as it was getting close time wise,and I listened for any problems on that side all night,nothing wrong.Everything worked as expected.I can't really say what almost an hour of trying everything,and getting no results at crunch time is like,but I'm sure some of you can relate.All I did was push the X100 dipswitch in,and back out (on the back of the crossover).I bought this unit used for $100 three years ago,so buying a brand new one is for sure the next purchase on my agenda,but I'm wondering if I may be missing something.In my mind(old,and burnt as it is),I have eliminated all possibilities of this issue being anything but the crossover.As always,thanks in advance for any insights into this "little" situation.I had the same situation with one of my systems setup in my back yard for testing. I simply pushed the mute low pass button in and out and poof...sub working. Always check all of that kind of stuff before going into major white knuckle stress swapping cabs etc. Always pull connections and re-insert as well before you do anything major. If you see a signal on your amp channel and no sound THEN you have a speaker cable or cabinet/driver issue. If you do not see signal lights on your amp rack gear on one channel then swap the other channel connect into that non working channel. Look for signal lights Sounds like you did way to much work for a simple fix. Relax...have a beer you got paid and your outa there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted August 14, 2012 Members Share Posted August 14, 2012 Could have been that the switvh contacts were hung up internally, a bit of dust or debris or even oxidation cause the problem with the switch, maybe it wasn't in the right position to begin with, etc. Just beware of this in the future when troubleshooting your system. At least you know where to look first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gonzobassman Posted August 15, 2012 Author Members Share Posted August 15, 2012 Thanx guys.I did in fact get paid,and had more than A beer!!! Lol Was looking to replace with the same thing (only the new silver faced unit),but wanted opinions on the Ashley unit that is about $100 higher(will have to look up the model number sorry about that).Just wondering if the Ashley stuff is of a higher quality(next level up) from the DBX.Ashley XR 1001 is the unit I'm curious about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mutha Goose Posted August 15, 2012 Members Share Posted August 15, 2012 Just remember when it happens next time... it will be due to something completely different! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bryan316 Posted August 15, 2012 Members Share Posted August 15, 2012 Just because it's made by Ashley, doesn't mean it won't age and have finicky connections/buttons as well. Caig's DeOxit should be regular maintenance for your gear. Opening stuff up and using an air compressor to blow away loose dust is also good to do, especially devices that rely on cooling fans. Take that DBX to a good tech and ask him to scour the PCB for cold solder joints, and while its open, he can clean the switches as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gonzobassman Posted August 15, 2012 Author Members Share Posted August 15, 2012 Bryan,I don't really want to spend the money to service a faulty unit that I have only got $100 invested in.I feel that it has done a good job,and that I got my money out of it.The reason I asked about the Ashley is that I had one some yeare ago,and wondered what (if any) the opinions on this forum are on that particular unit.Odds are I will stay with DBX,but I will replace the existing one.I've been thinking about it for a while.Just needed the iceing on my cake! Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted August 15, 2012 Members Share Posted August 15, 2012 Bryan,I don't really want to spend the money to service a faulty unit that I have only got $100 invested in.I feel that it has done a good job,and that I got my money out of it.The reason I asked about the Ashley is that I had one some yeare ago,and wondered what (if any) the opinions on this forum are on that particular unit.Odds are I will stay with DBX,but I will replace the existing one.I've been thinking about it for a while.Just needed the iceing on my cake! Lol Are you positive that it's the DBX unit and not somethinbg else that you overlooked during the troubleshooting? Easy to do. IMO, the failure rate between the two brands is pretty similar, neither one is a clear cut winner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gonzobassman Posted August 15, 2012 Author Members Share Posted August 15, 2012 Andy,fair question.I am 99.9 % certain of it.It is an intermitten problem that has caused issues for a while.It only happens a small percentage of times in use,and this is the first time I experienced (almost) complete failure.So,IMO it is getting worse.That is why I did all the things I did to track it down.It would still work great for a small 2-way mono sytem,and in fact that is probably where I will use it,but I do feel replacement is my best option.Thank you for the opinion on the two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Coaster Posted August 15, 2012 Members Share Posted August 15, 2012 i've actually had a lot more issues with the ashlys than the other brands, but this is likely due to their age and being heavily worn. ashly was really popular around my area for a while in the past and there is a lot of older stuff still floating around, and when i get on a rig with an ashly crossover in it i am not surprised to find that one side may buzz, have serious noise, or be dead. in fact many rigs in my area may hve a dbx223xl installed on top of an ashly as its replacement (why they leave the ashly in is beyond me). and i LIKE ashly, so dont get me wrong. just the ones i have come across have been rode hard and put away wet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted August 16, 2012 Members Share Posted August 16, 2012 Ashley is fine, older stuff with a thorough servicing will make as reliable as anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Coaster Posted August 16, 2012 Members Share Posted August 16, 2012 Ashley is fine, older stuff with a thorough servicing will make as reliable as anything else. ashley sells second rate furniture ashly makes audio gear :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted August 16, 2012 Members Share Posted August 16, 2012 oops, and I though it was a little girl's name... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abzurd Posted August 16, 2012 Members Share Posted August 16, 2012 I have an Ashly XR1001 crossover I would probably sell. Full disclosure... I bought it off ebay a few years ago. I love it but moved from Yorkville subs, which do not have a crossover despite what their marketing may say, to RCF's with decent crossovers built in. So, long story short , it's sitting in a shelf in the basement. It looks brand new. If you're interested PM me. I Really like the "response" control. It allowed me to make a small "notch", which cleaned up the sound and tightened the subs up. I was using Yorkville LS700P subs, which have pretty peaky output a the right were you'd want to cut them off. I could get those little guys to sound much larger than they were, albeit at the expense of overall output. Anyway, here's what Ashly marketing says about it: Response Control; an Ashly Exclusive...This control, found adjacent to the crossover frequency control, adjusts the damping of the filter affecting the response shape of the filters at the crossover point. The dial calibrations refer to the amount of attenuation effected by the filter at the crossover frequency, i.e., a setting of 3dB means that the filter's high-pass and low-pass outputs are each "rolled off 3dB at the crossover point". This describes Butterworth filter response, or a gentle 3dB peak at the crossover point when the two filter output signals overlap. To obtain a flat signal, or "Linkwitz-Riley" response through the crossover region, set the Response control to "6". This attenuates each output of the filter by 6dB at the crossover point (two identical signals added together yield a +6dB increase). To obtain a notch at the crossover point, turn down the response control past "6" to best suit your needs. The purpose of this control is to help offset the inaccuracies inherent in typical loudspeakers, thereby helping you to achieve a flat system response. NOTE: The Response control is not a "slope" control. A 24dB/octave crossover will always have a slope of 24dB/octave. The Response control only affects filter response shape in the immediate vicinity of the crossover frequency; the ultimate crossover slope is a fixed parameter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted August 16, 2012 Members Share Posted August 16, 2012 The response control is really a Q adjustment, and Q is essentially filter shape... ie. BW, LR etc. By changing the Q, it's possible to overlap or underlap response at the -3dB point. LR is really just essentially a low Q BW filter with the -3dB point redefined at -6dB. This was Ashly's approach (early on) to approaching the concept of constant power summing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members drumstix Posted August 16, 2012 Members Share Posted August 16, 2012 Possibly a cold solder joint somewhere in the box, and changing the X100 state was enough to make it pass signal again. Replacement or repair is defnitely in order, as you can expect this type of problem to not "self-correct":D I had one of these type issues a couple of months back. End result after checking and checking again, cold solder issue on AUX 1 of my Mixwiz. At first it was a head scratcher. One gig everything is fine. A gig or two down the road, weak signal. I kept telling our singer everything is fine, settings are the same as last time. Finally figured it out after spending an hour or so patching, repatching.....changing speakers, cables, mic's.....ARG! Darn mixer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bugzie Posted August 16, 2012 Members Share Posted August 16, 2012 just be glad it was a repairable mixer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bryan316 Posted August 16, 2012 Members Share Posted August 16, 2012 I had one of these type issues a couple of months back. End result after checking and checking again, cold solder issue on AUX 1 of my Mixwiz. At first it was a head scratcher. One gig everything is fine. A gig or two down the road, weak signal. I kept telling our singer everything is fine, settings are the same as last time. Finally figured it out after spending an hour or so patching, repatching.....changing speakers, cables, mic's.....ARG! Darn mixer! Salvaged a Rocktron Guitar Silencer for my brother that had cold solders from almost every control knob on the front panel to the PCB. Just heated each joint up, and it works flawlessly. He likes it better than the ISP Decimator Pro he ordered up to replace the Guitar Silencer, for the same reason, afraid it would fail down the road. 7 years later, the Guitar Silencer is still in his rig and still sounds great. Don't be afraid to do a little maintenance to keep good gear in good shape. But if Abzurd wants to sell his Ashly, heh heh, jump on it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gonzobassman Posted August 16, 2012 Author Members Share Posted August 16, 2012 I was curious about that "response" knob.Other than that it looks to be your typical 2-way stereo/3-way mono crossover.I guess I could just look at the possibility of upgrading to the PRX612 you all talk so highly of.They have crossovers built right in,don't they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abzurd Posted August 16, 2012 Members Share Posted August 16, 2012 I was curious about that "response" knob.Other than that it looks to be your typical 2-way stereo/3-way mono crossover.I guess I could just look at the possibility of upgrading to the PRX612 you all talk so highly of.They have crossovers built right in,don't they? No, the crossover is in the PRX subwoofer, which is typical of how most powered speaker systems work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members laidback Posted August 16, 2012 Members Share Posted August 16, 2012 When troubleshooting this kind of problem, signal lights are your friend. Signal lights at the amp channel= problem is downstream of the amp. No lights at amp, keep moving upstream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted August 16, 2012 CMS Author Share Posted August 16, 2012 I was curious about that "response" knob.Other than that it looks to be your typical 2-way stereo/3-way mono crossover.I guess I could just look at the possibility of upgrading to the PRX612 you all talk so highly of.They have crossovers built right in,don't they? Range switches are very common on crossovers. They allow you to have 2, 3, and even 4-way crossover functionality in one 2-channel unit. You simply switch the range(s) to the correct value(s) to match the type of crossover(s) you need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DBR Posted August 18, 2012 Members Share Posted August 18, 2012 Yeah Issue solved another crisis narrowly averted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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