Members steve mac Posted June 22, 2014 Members Share Posted June 22, 2014 I have an idea to add a looper into my solo act, however not to create the loops live rather to pre record them and the store them individually to be called up as and when required. I am thinking simple short chord progression to solo over and/or percussion of some sort like shakers etc. the advantage I can see over using tracks is I can call them as and when, as oppose to be stuck with the timing of the BT. Also one could let the progression run for an extended solo. But before spending the dosh I thought I would run it by you far more experienced guys to see if it's feasible or if there is an easier way to achieve this. Also if it is a goer any recommendations for the best machine for the job. Cheers Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators daddymack Posted June 22, 2014 Moderators Share Posted June 22, 2014 Steve, this is what I am doing with the RC30, although as I get more into it, the less I am using the prerecorded material as calling up the loops can take a bit of tapdancing. I find more often I just live loop and go.A few songs I do use the pre-recorded loops are 'Maybe I'm Amazed', 'No Matter What' and 'Do You Know What I Mean', mainly because they are in the first ten...but I originally expected to use close to forty pre-rec, and a few live, now it is the opposite. But the flexibility vs recorded tracks is definitely a plus for me, as I like to be spontaneous. I am actually debating selling the RC30 and getting a simple looper like the Ditto, as I think I can live loop pretty much what I need on the fly, now that I have had time to work on the process. go back in the archive and read my looper shootout...the RC30 and the JamMan would both suit your needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members steve mac Posted June 23, 2014 Author Members Share Posted June 23, 2014 Cheers DMac I have just read your earlier post and am really interested in why you went off using the pre recorded loops, to my mind it must be easier for you and save the crowd waiting whilst you do you thing. Is calling them up so difficult? When I look at reviews on line they just show how to make a loop not play one. I guess i would need about ten or so as i wouldn't use them on every tune. But equally I don't want to waste money on stuff that gathers dust like my drum machine.Cheers Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members the_big_e Posted June 23, 2014 Members Share Posted June 23, 2014 I'm a keyboard player (not the greatest but not that bad either) but these days, for playing out at least, I am using a keytar both with the guys I play with (for fun) and solo (just busking, nothing serious). Unlike a guitar that has a good depth of sound even when solo, the keytar is like playing a piano one handed so the sound tends to be very empty on it's own (it's a lucina so no editing of the sounds either).To get around that 'empty sound' problem I've started using a jamman solo xt loop pedal. I do a lot of the simpler songs on the fly, eg anything 12 bar blues or similar of things like Spooky (all of two chords) but for anything that has any sort of serious structure (into/verse/chorus) I need to pre record it. That's mainly because of the limitations of the loop pedal I am using as it's only one track at a time and if I change tracks I lose what I just recorded. Plus, pre recording it means the audience does not have to listen while I set it all up and save stuff etc.There are dual track, three track (boss rc-300) and even a 5 track loop pedal (rc-500 but not really for floor/foot use) out there they are too expensive for me (maybe the rc-300 one day though!).Basically, for the pre recorded stuff I am just using them as backing tracks, albeit with a degree of flexibility as to the order I play the various parts in, plus I can overdub them on the fly, so that does tend to lend a degree of validity to the 'live' sound in my opinion.For the on the fly stuff I have various tracks o the pedal (there a re 200 in total plus another 200 if I add an SD card) set up to various tempos so I don't have to try to get the temp right by tapping (I struggle with that). So, for example, track 75 is set to 75 bpm, trach 110 to 110 bpm etc. All I need to do is select the trach number to get the corresponding temp. I have them setup in 5 bpm steps so there are 'gaps' between each preset tempo track where I can pre record stuff then on my set list (on the ipad) I just note the track number(s) to play and the keytar instruments to use for each song.So far, it works just fine. If you have an ipad or similar, there's also an app called Loopy that does looping and can now be controlled by a foot pedal (via midi) like an Behringer fcb 1010. The app is very god but I have found that connecting it all up etc is a pain (too many wires) and not really that secure, especially in a stage setting where connectors can get pulled out so then you need something like an io dock for it. All gets very expensive but great if you already have most of the stuff. That's just my experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators daddymack Posted June 24, 2014 Moderators Share Posted June 24, 2014 Cheers DMac I have just read your earlier post and am really interested in why you went off using the pre recorded loops, to my mind it must be easier for you and save the crowd waiting whilst you do you thing. Is calling them up so difficult? When I look at reviews on line they just show how to make a loop not play one. I guess i would need about ten or so as i wouldn't use them on every tune. But equally I don't want to waste money on stuff that gathers dust like my drum machine. Cheers Steve Yeah, I found as I worked more with the looper on the non-pre-rec material, I got more emboldened, as it were, as far as being able to start/stop the recording process while singing. I thought I would be much more reliant on pre-rec, but time and practice proved me wrong. Funny, at the beginning (wow, 2 years ago) I was so enamored of the whole concept that I was certain it would make a huge difference in my performances, but, as I worked with it, the more I realized that there really weren't that many places I really need it, and the few where I do, are not songs I will likely do forever...and oddly enough, I find I am taking a lot of the soloing out of my solo act in favor of stripped down, vocal focused material...even the vocal harmonizer is not getting the use it was a year ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members steve mac Posted June 24, 2014 Author Members Share Posted June 24, 2014 Thanks for the heads up on the ipad app looper, I will investigate further but I am not sure of the playing back part as Midi as always been a mystery to me. Interesting thoughts Daddy M , I love hearing from folk who have tried something I am about to invest time and money in. Cheers Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators daddymack Posted June 25, 2014 Moderators Share Posted June 25, 2014 Which is not to say that my outcomes are indicative of all potentials...YMMV... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members steve mac Posted June 25, 2014 Author Members Share Posted June 25, 2014 I think I will make up some short maybe just 8 bars backing using the same overall sound I would use live and just experiment too see if I would use it before I splash the cash. Cheers Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members steve mac Posted July 4, 2014 Author Members Share Posted July 4, 2014 So a week or so on, I have been using the simple looper (15 seconds) that is built into my harmoniser that is capable of recording both guitar and vocals. Never used t before really and wow what an addictive piece of kit. Will practice a bit more and give a song or two live in a couple of weeks. But I think you are right DaddyMac this might just be enough. So far I have tried U2 With or Without You, 4 Non Blondes Whats Up and The Lion Sleeps Tonight. Any other suggestions more than welcome. Cheers Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members miden Posted July 10, 2014 Members Share Posted July 10, 2014 I have thought about using a looper, but using pre-recorded loops is really no different to using midi backing tracks. Being someone who used to use midi tracks a lot, I got tired of the "canned" nature of them, and also being stuck to a rigid format, hence the thoughts re a looper. However I decided to go the route of the stomp box (I have a kick stomp and snare stomp side by side) and I play left hand basslines right hand keys and vocals. I find the stomper give me the freedom to do whatever I want in a song, more like a live combo. Loopers are okay, but there is still the need to set up your loop and in these cases as written about above, it can only be for rather limited (chordally and dynamically) tunes. Playing all the parts I want "live" gives me a lot of freedom, takes a bit of getting used to, and I am still evolving with it, but for me, it is the best system for getting a "raw - I am playing everything" type of sound. YMMV of course! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members the_big_e Posted July 11, 2014 Members Share Posted July 11, 2014 The thing with pre recorded loops on a loop pedal is that: You can break a song up into multiple parts and switch between them as you desire so there's a lot of flexibility there.You can record over them live to enhance a given loop at any time.The audience does not have to wait while you build the basics of the loops up. I have never been a fan of backing track when playing a full keyboard, for me, if you cannot play it live then don't play it but I use my looper with a keytar and it just needs that extra element to fill out the sound otherwise it's a bit of a lonely sound and since I am creating the loops, either live or in some cases I've laid down the base parts before hand for more complex songs, it's still 'me' and I can move things around so it satisfies my desire to be 'live' at least to some degree. That's just me though, others may have a different perspective on things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators daddymack Posted July 11, 2014 Moderators Share Posted July 11, 2014 The thing with pre recorded loops on a loop pedal is that: You can break a song up into multiple parts and switch between them as you desire so there's a lot of flexibility there. You can record over them live to enhance a given loop at any time. The audience does not have to wait while you build the basics of the loops up. That was my starting point; what I discovered was that I could live loop a rhythm track in the first verse to solo over later. A few songs, where there is a hook riff at the front end are the ones I am re-recording now. Even these are being scrutinized closely as I go to see if I can go simpler or not. My goal now is to sell the RC-30 and go with a simpler unit [like the TC Ditto], as I am beginning to feel the floor is becoming too cluttered for my liking (I use no pedals in my band gig), especially with the BeatBuddy arriving shortly...a whole new set of parameters to deal with...but one I am looking forward to experiencing (I became immediately disenchanted with the 'rhythm player' in the RC). I think with a good looper and a drum machine that has fills/rolls, a keyboard player has the potential to sound like a full band; guitar lacks the bass bottom end to complete this effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members miden Posted July 11, 2014 Members Share Posted July 11, 2014 The thing with pre recorded loops on a loop pedal is that: You can break a song up into multiple parts and switch between them as you desire so there's a lot of flexibility there. You can record over them live to enhance a given loop at any time. The audience does not have to wait while you build the basics of the loops up. I have never been a fan of backing track when playing a full keyboard, for me, if you cannot play it live then don't play it but I use my looper with a keytar and it just needs that extra element to fill out the sound otherwise it's a bit of a lonely sound and since I am creating the loops, either live or in some cases I've laid down the base parts before hand for more complex songs, it's still 'me' and I can move things around so it satisfies my desire to be 'live' at least to some degree. That's just me though, others may have a different perspective on things. As you say you are using a Keytar, so no option for LIVE playing of basslines, nor much else really....In my case the BT's were ONLY drums and very light guitar tracks (where necessary) everything else I played live. But with the stomp box system, as I wrote, I have total flexibility in what I do. I might try a looper one day just for fun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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