Members WRGKMC Posted June 3, 2014 Members Share Posted June 3, 2014 Your mixer comments are almost 100% inaccurate and/or false. 1. An unbalanced connection (hot and ground) is not and has nothing to do with high impedance. High impedance can be balanced or unbalanced. So can low impedance. 2. I can't think of any mixer that has been sold in this industry in the last 20 years that does not have sufficient drive capability to drive well above +4dBu. 3. An unbalanced signal feeding an XLR at line level can be impedance compensated to provide all of the benefits of a balanced connection other than a reduction of maximum drive level of 6dB. This can still deliver +18dBu rather than +24dBu' date=' plenty of drive.[/quote'] You know at least I gave some possible explanations of why these people "Might" have the results they're getting. As far as I can see you still haven't offered any theory why they "might" have those results. Because you are so close minded it makes me realize you are an amateur and have no experience working with pros in the industry. Anyone with any experience at all in this business avoids taking black and white positions like you do. Only fools do that because there are too many opportunities for them to be wrong so they avoid being "that" stupid. Besides, Pros don't go around criticizing their peers in the industry because they never know what the future holds for them in this business. If you don't like the fact I focus on concept and skip the boring details most armatures don't understand anyway, that's fine. I haven't had to crack a book in 38 years and so long as I make the money I do In this industry I probably wont. I surely don't need kindergarten lessons from an arrogant clown like yourself so do me a favor and back off. Its not my mission is life to pass your writing examination and you're under no obligation to read anything I post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members witesol Posted June 3, 2014 Members Share Posted June 3, 2014 You know at least I gave some possible explanations of why these people "Might" have the results they're getting. As far as I can see you still haven't offered any theory why they "might" have those results. Not much theorizing to do. they're turning up two volume knobs until they reach the volume they desire, or the clip lights...in an innappropriate manner. You can turn one knob up high enough to reach where you want or fix your gain structure at the board along with the speakers. Pretty simple. the recipe calls for 40 minutes cooking at 350 degrees. Hmm, how about 10 minutes at 1400 degrees Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted June 3, 2014 Members Share Posted June 3, 2014 You know at least I gave some possible explanations of why these people "Might" have the results they're getting. As far as I can see you still haven't offered any theory why they "might" have those results. Because you are so close minded it makes me realize you are an amateur and have no experience working with pros in the industry. Anyone with any experience at all in this business avoids taking black and white positions like you do. Only fools do that because there are too many opportunities for them to be wrong so they avoid being "that" stupid. Besides, Pros don't go around criticizing their peers in the industry because they never know what the future holds for them in this business. If you don't like the fact I focus on concept and skip the boring details most armatures don't understand anyway, that's fine. I haven't had to crack a book in 38 years and so long as I make the money I do In this industry I probably wont. I surely don't need kindergarten lessons from an arrogant clown like yourself so do me a favor and back off. Its not my mission is life to pass your writing examination and you're under no obligation to read anything I post. Sir, I have designed enough pro audio products for this industry in the past 30 years that I have no reason to be closed minded, in fact I am being entirely factual and presenting what it't NOT likely to be. This is called differential diagnostics, and if you were the professional that you say you are, you would know about this and why it's valuable rather than being insulting. By eliminating what it's not narrows down what it can be. If fact, it's part of the most basic aspects of troubleshooting. Folks in this industry, professionals anyway, do need to take a black and white view ofthings that have black and white components. There is no gray area to the information that I presented, or to the inaccurate information that you presented. Am I supposed to say "oh what a nice try presentin the information, it may be correct in some world outthere and for that you get partial credit and a pat on the back but maybe today the electrons are behaving differently and not as you think? Take a gold star and a pat on the back if it makes you feel all warm and fuzzy." Anybody who does rigging knows that there are right and wrong ways to do something, wrong way presents no defense in the event something bad happens. Your behavour shows that you are not my peer, unlikely to ever be, and I know enough about what the future will bring not to need to worry about making somebody feel bad about themselves because they opened their mouth in a public forum and showed the world that they do not understand what they think they do. This just serves to spread bad information to those trying to learn here. Suggestion... either learn how this stuff works or keep your mouth shut. The more you say the more you show us how little you understand. That way you won't get corrected in public and you can stay all warm and fuzzy. With regards to being an arrogant clown, that's pretty funny. With an attitude like this, I can see the tour bus leaving without you at the first opportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shaster Posted June 3, 2014 Members Share Posted June 3, 2014 I think it's important to remember that this is a public forum, and that if someone posts something that is innacurate, we owe it to the general assembly to correct that information. I know that sometimes I read things that are just plain wrong, but I'll often wait for others (like dBoomer and agedhorse) to rectify the situation. Agedhorse, in particular, gets called out for stepping up to the plate and setting the record straight. I wish I had the credentials, or maybe the guts, to clarify misinformation the way that others do. However, there are times when my particular experience allows me to comment, and when that happens I try to do so. So let's be clear, in the OP's situation, there was no real reason to use two inputs other than it made them feel better. They could achieve the same results by turning the output of the mixer up - and or improving their overall gain structure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dbMontana Posted June 3, 2014 Members Share Posted June 3, 2014 +1 dear Shaster! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members witesol Posted June 3, 2014 Members Share Posted June 3, 2014 "I haven't had to crack a book in 38 years" my wife wanted me to read the Hunger games, and I read a couple Clive Cusslers and Robert Ludlums.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted June 4, 2014 Members Share Posted June 4, 2014 ^^^ I was implying I haven't had to crack my old "text" books from college, but it appears I have to spell everything out in specific detail or be ridiculed, while the main point I was trying to make is ignored. Again my opinion was they "might" have accidentally found running two cables in parallel provided better continuity, and it actually does sound better to their ears. I leave that possibility open because I know how inferior cables can attenuate the signal quality. If it is true, the cure would be to run two high quality XLR cables instead of two inferior cables to get the same results. Simple Symptom, Simple Diagnosis, Simple Solution. That's all I was trying to say. I do apologize for opening up that possibility and will refrain from contributing here in the future. Have a good day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted June 4, 2014 Members Share Posted June 4, 2014 C'mon man, cable loss over a couple hundred feet of an XLR cable? If that were true, every snake system would be doomed from the very start. It doesn't happen. The ratio of source to load to cable impedance is what guarantees it can't. Cable loss over say 500' will be in the range of less than 0.1dB I crack my books all the time, and I work with this stuff every day as a (real) engineer. I encourage you to crack some books, read up on what really happens in input and output stages of line drivers and you will immediately see why you are wrong. It's simple stuff but you have missed or recalled incorrectly the most simple of it. Back to my pcb layout project... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members witesol Posted June 4, 2014 Members Share Posted June 4, 2014 I apologize about my book joke. It was an attempt at self deprecating humor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members witesol Posted June 4, 2014 Members Share Posted June 4, 2014 is that even a thing? I played with a band this past weekend that did this, and it doesn't seem to make any sense to me, but I was wondering why they might have done it. They split the signal from the mixer to two XLRs on each side and then ran both into channels 1 and 2 of the mixer of the EV ZLX-15P main. "To get more output" they said. Does it make any sense to do this? Why not run just one XLR to the first channel and then crank the preamp to get more output? If anyone can help me understand this sort of behavior, I'd appreciate it. Brian did you have the band refer to this thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted June 4, 2014 Members Share Posted June 4, 2014 I thought it was funny if that matters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MusicalSchizo Posted June 4, 2014 Author Members Share Posted June 4, 2014 Thanks to all for the discussion! I feel slightly less crazy now. I think something that wasn't clear in my initial post is this: They are running a single XLR from the left output of a Mackie DL1608 into the XLR splitter and then into the two channels of the left side EV ZLX-15P and the same on the right - so one of the stereo channels, split into two outputs, then into the ZLX's internal mixer. So there's no desire for getting the stereo signal out of each cab - just one side from each. It just seemed so incredibly pointless to me. I just joined the band, so I'm going to wait some time before I start being my typically critical self, but I may point them here if they don't believe me. Of course no one present running sound or setting up speakers seemed to understand the difference between a speaker cable and an instrument cable and the different uses of each, or why it's better to run balanced signal cables on long cable runs. They also acted as though I was being picky to suggest that running signal cables to powered speakers is preferred over running speaker wires. Ugh. At least they're nice people and fun to play with. This stuff will drive me off the deep end, though. I have way more experience with this stuff than they realize. Thanks again!Brian V. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members witesol Posted June 4, 2014 Members Share Posted June 4, 2014 Thanks to all for the discussion! I feel slightly less crazy now. I think something that wasn't clear in my initial post is this: They are running a single XLR from the left output of a Mackie DL1608 into the XLR splitter and then into the two channels of the left side EV ZLX-15P and the same on the right - so one of the stereo channels, split into two outputs, then into the ZLX's internal mixer. So there's no desire for getting the stereo signal out of each cab - just one side from each. It just seemed so incredibly pointless to me. I just joined the band, so I'm going to wait some time before I start being my typically critical self, but I may point them here if they don't believe me. Of course no one present running sound or setting up speakers seemed to understand the difference between a speaker cable and an instrument cable and the different uses of each, or why it's better to run balanced signal cables on long cable runs. They also acted as though I was being picky to suggest that running signal cables to powered speakers is preferred over running speaker wires. Ugh. At least they're nice people and fun to play with. This stuff will drive me off the deep end, though. I have way more experience with this stuff than they realize. Thanks again! Brian V. I guessed correctly then! Well, I guess they're using all 4 volumes on the EVs giving them 2000 watts per side instead of only 1000! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted June 4, 2014 Members Share Posted June 4, 2014 In the spirit of the topic, why not call it 4000 watts with a wink and a nod towards the marketing folks and those who fall for it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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