ELX118P DOB 1.28.14 DECEASED 4.30.14

[agedhorse]

I have had no Yamaha service issues in the 30 years I have been using their products. Just finished rebuilding a couple of their commercial rack mount mixers with build codes in 1986. No issues getting any parts, but I stocked most if them anyway.

[losound]

Peavey always gave the best support. Amp goes out, drive an hour to the factory, walk into repair, wait an hour, then fixed.

 

[Craig Vecchione]

I had something similar happen to a Yorkville 18" sub. Called Yorkville (one number - no "You have to call xxxxx", then they overnight me the amp module and in 15 minutes I am back in low sound. Total time down was 2 days.

 

I just had a Yamaha amp go bad, out of warranty, spent two days calling different numbers and being told different things then finally get the repair guy who tells me their 90/hr fee will cost far more than the amp costs to fix it and there was no guarantee the amp would work after they worked on it at the 90 per. Never will purchase another Yamaha product. Folks sometimes purchase just based on price and have no idea about the support they are supposedly to receive with the product.

 

I'm not sure I follow this reasoning. It took me less than 5 minutes to find a Yamaha authorized service facility in my area (RetroLinear in North Wales, PA). What were your 2 days of calling about? The amp is out of warranty. The costs are always going to be substantial, and $90/hr. is not out of reason at all. It's also not unreasonable, and in fact a service to you that the shop advised the cost would likely exceed the value of the amp, and that there was no way, having not diagnosed it, to guarantee it was reasonably repairable.

 

I'm not intentionally being argumentative, just not seeing how any of this is Yamaha's fault. If the amp was in warranty, it would be reasonable to assume the same shop would do the work at Yamaha's expense. What did you expect to be different about your experience?

[losound]

 

I'm not sure I follow this reasoning. It took me less than 5 minutes to find a Yamaha authorized service facility in my area (RetroLinear in North Wales, PA). What were your 2 days of calling about? The amp is out of warranty. The costs are always going to be substantial, and $90/hr. is not out of reason at all. It's also not unreasonable, and in fact a service to you that the shop advised the cost would likely exceed the value of the amp, and that there was no way, having not diagnosed it, to guarantee it was reasonably repairable.

 

I'm not intentionally being argumentative, just not seeing how any of this is Yamaha's fault. If the amp was in warranty, it would be reasonable to assume the same shop would do the work at Yamaha's expense. What did you expect to be different about your experience?

 

Yamaha authorized service facility in my area (RetroLinear in North Wales, PA). What were your 2 days of calling about? The amp is out of warranty. The costs are always going to be substantial, and $90/hr. is not out of reason at all. It's also not unreasonable, and in fact a service to you that the shop advised the cost would likely exceed the value of the amp, and that there was no way, having not diagnosed it, to guarantee it was reasonably repairable.

 

I'm not intentionally being argumentative, just not seeing how any of this is Yamaha's fault. If the amp was in warranty, it would be reasonable to assume the same shop would do the work at Yamaha's expense. What did you expect to be different about your experience?

Glad your 5 minutes were so productive. You can't follow cause it didn't happen to you.

 

Me:

First phone call to dealer where purchased. "Dude, I don't know." Shouts out,"Hey, anyone know where to get a yamaha amp fixed?"

Background, "Yeah, tell him to call Sam."

Phone Guy, "Yeah, you should call Sam."

Me, "Can you give me Sam's number? What is the name of the repair center?

Phone guy, yells in to the back, "You know Sams number?" pause

Phone Guy to me: We don't know his number but you can find him on the street a couple of blocks over from Sunshine behind one of those mattress companies."

Me: Give up on these idiots. I don't live in that city. Look on Yamaha website for nearest Authorized Repair Center.

 

Give said repair center a call. The phone is disconnected.

 

Look up another one several cities away. Call them. "No, we can't repair those." They have surface mount tech. At least I don't think so...hold on...5 min later, "This is John can I help you?" I explain over again. "No we can't repair those." Have you tried Yamaha?" uh...I got YOUR number from Yamaha... Bye

 

Call Yamaha again, "Press 1 for hosiery department, press 2 for subsurface mining, press 3 for antiaircraft missiles, press 4 for all other products....press 6 for large format mixers...press 7 for... FINALLY I get someone. (yes, tongue-in-cheek BUT BIG BIG CORPORATION)

Me, "Can you repair blah blah blah amp?"

Sorry sir you have the wrong department, Call back and ask for repair." Me," Ask WHO for repair? There is no person."

Me, "Can you please transfer me over there.?"

Him, sounding put out, "ALLLR...i...g...h..tt. sigh.."

"This is Jim. Can I help you?

Me, "Hi Jim, are you in repair?"

"Yes, how can I help you?

So I tell him.

"Those are cheap *** Asian made amps and are built to be thrown away. It could cost you several hundred with no guarantee that it would be fixed at our 90 per hour." (Yes, more tongue-in-cheek, but in essence this is what he said)

Me, "OK, thank you." Bye

 

Ya got it now?

No way that experience compares with that from the North American companies.

And where I live $55 per hour is max going amp repair rate.

My whole point was bitchin about throw away products - cheap Asian made throw away products.

[agedhorse]

First of all, your post was pretty funny...

 

I understand your frustration, but when dealing with the real service centers everybody is pretty knowledgable about the product and how to get things repaired. After all, Yamaha has an awful lot of pro level touring products that have no trouble getting fixed (the failure rates are very, very low BTW) and those top of the line products are made in Asia too. You are generalizing on a political level which is not all that accurate.

 

My labor rate is $75/hr, and I probably take 1/2 the time to correctly repair faults compared with lower priced, junior level techs. So comparing apples to oranges I would charge $75 for what another cheaper tech who took twice as long would charge at $110. Generally you get what you pay for.

[Craig Vecchione]

Ya got it now?

No way that experience compares with that from the North American companies.

And where I live $55 per hour is max going amp repair rate.

My whole point was bitchin about throw away products - cheap Asian made throw away products.

 

So what's the word from the $55/hr shop?

[nchangin]

Hmmm My primary amp is a yamaha cp 2000 for my passive system, I think it's pretty old, bought it used for 200 bucks 3 years ago, it's been my main stay amp, the one that doesn't fail. Solid as a rock, my go to amp. When not running subs I run that amp so it runs many more hours than my QSC amp for subs.... Question: What yamaha amp failed on you? Model? Maybe aged horse can fix it for ya????

[losound]

First of all, your post was pretty funny...

 

I understand your frustration, but when dealing with the real service centers everybody is pretty knowledgable about the product and how to get things repaired. After all, Yamaha has an awful lot of pro level touring products that have no trouble getting fixed (the failure rates are very, very low BTW) and those top of the line products are made in Asia too. You are generalizing on a political level which is not all that accurate.

 

My labor rate is $75/hr, and I probably take 1/2 the time to correctly repair faults compared with lower priced, junior level techs. So comparing apples to oranges I would charge $75 for what another cheaper tech who took twice as long would charge at $110. Generally you get what you pay for.

And I think 75 an hour is something I would gladly pay you due to your experience level. But techs right out of school - no.

 

Not political - If the amp is made here in USA and is a throw away product I would bitch just as much about them - equally. I actually love Asia and have spent a great deal of time in China. If the Asian made product is not throw-away I will consider it equally.

 

My first post was more to praise the level of support for a made in north America product where you can get an actual person on the phone and overnight parts. I threw the Yamaha comment cause I was a bit pissed at a throw away non-repairable due to extremely high repair cost product. I also inquired about purchasing parts and if could I get a schematic. No because I was not an authorized repair center; IF I was the schematics were on the repair disk at $69 (I think). I am sure the pro level products would be repairable - at the $90 per. This was a MI amp that sold for $299 and ends up in junk pile.

[losound]

 

So what's the word from the $55/hr shop?

See post above - I was referring to a MI amp and not a pro product.

He said bring it to him but it would probably cost as much as a new one (Yamaha tech said MORE than a new one) and was not sure about obtaining the proprietary module.

 

I used to run Yamaha pro-level amps for live sound back in the early 80's - they were well-built and superb sounding. I am sure their current level higher-end products are fine.

[losound]

Hmmm My primary amp is a yamaha cp 2000 for my passive system' date=' I think it's pretty old, bought it used for 200 bucks 3 years ago, it's been my main stay amp, the one that doesn't fail. Solid as a rock, my go to amp. When not running subs I run that amp so it runs many more hours than my QSC amp for subs.... Question: What yamaha amp failed on you? Model? Maybe aged horse can fix it for ya????[/quote']

See post above - It was a MI product, a TH-10. I have used the same amp you have and it performed great. Currently have QSC but would not be afraid of Peavey, Yorkville, or Yamaha.

 

OP - Sorry for derailing your thread. SOunds like you were well-taken care of.

[Craig Vecchione]

 

See post above - I was referring to a MI amp and not a pro product.

He said bring it to him but it would probably cost as much as a new one (Yamaha tech said MORE than a new one) and was not sure about obtaining the proprietary module.

 

I used to run Yamaha pro-level amps for live sound back in the early 80's - they were well-built and superb sounding. I am sure their current level higher-end products are fine.

 

I'm just not seeing why you would buy from Peavey, QSC, Yorkville, etc. but not again from Yamaha. All of these companies produce made-in-Asia items that could be considered throw-away from the standpoint of repairs costing near the original selling price.

[losound]

 

 

I'm just not seeing why you would buy from Peavey, QSC, Yorkville, etc. but not again from Yamaha. All of these companies produce made-in-Asia items that could be considered throw-away from the standpoint of repairs costing near the original selling price.

That one is easy. Cause Peavey & Yorkville have not yet pissed me off; rest assured if they do Hartley & Jack will hear about it. Both companies have repaired even $200 rigs of mine at none to minimum cost. I have posted before where Peavey repaired products for me that were years out of warranty - at no cost and at minimum cost. And all I've got out of Yamaha is a $300 paperweight.

 

But we are certainly off topic.

[Craig Vecchione]

We're not at all off-topic.

 

Are you saying that Yamaha pissed you off by not giving you something to which you weren't entitled? My comments in no way minimize the excellent service Peavey and Yorkville provide. But it seems rather unfair to get pissed at a company that didn't elect to repair something that was outside the warranty term.

[losound]

We're not at all off-topic.

 

Are you saying that Yamaha pissed you off by not giving you something to which you weren't entitled? My comments in no way minimize the excellent service Peavey and Yorkville provide. But it seems rather unfair to get pissed at a company that didn't elect to repair something that was outside the warranty term.

Considering the topic was EVsub died yes I do think it off-topic I was trying to be considerate of the OP.

Methinks thou dost protest too much. I will get pissed at whoever I want.

I simply pointed out that both Yorkville and Peavey have given ME much better service. You wanna buy a Yamaha paperweight from me? SOLD if you do.

[Craig Vecchione]

Perhaps you're not reading what you wrote with the eyes of someone other than yourself. You didn't "simply point out" anything more than that you would never buy from Yamaha because a 3rd party shop told you the repair might cost what the amp is worth. This non-sequitor is why I asked you for details. The details shifted a few times, from being pissed at Yamaha to being annoyed with overseas-built throwaway gear, to finally arrive at getting free out-of-warranty repairs from Peavey and Yorkville. It still doesn't follow that either an *independent* repair shop's hourly rate, or above-and-beyond service from other manufacturers should result in you being pissed at Yamaha. They no more had control over the shop's cash labor rate than they did over Peavey's goodwill policy. And I'm not in any way attempting to change your mind at all...far from it. Just pointing out that your reasoning is very hard to follow, so don't get annoyed that I've tried to make sense of it.

 

 

[Craig Vecchione]

 

Considering the topic was EVsub died yes I do think it off-topic I was trying to be considerate of the OP.

 

By posting about a Yamaha guitar amp failure? Sorry, but you don't get to post whatever you want and then complain that you can't control the direction your posts took the thread.

[losound]

 

 

By posting about a Yamaha guitar amp failure? Sorry, but you don't get to post whatever you want and then complain that you can't control the direction your posts took the thread.

Some people, like me, respect a person's thread title and don't wish to cram the thread full of other topic even though other topic is mentioned in the thread.

Since you appear to be a moderator I will have to assume that this board has different policies on thread derailment or that this particular subsection does.

 

IN that case I will attempt to put my position in words you understand since you keep saying you don't understand.SO SORRY YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND. I will attempt to put it in words where there is no confusion.

 

1) Buyer purchases a Yamaha product.

Conclusion: Guy purchases a Yamaha product. This is the only conclusion that can be drawn at this stage. It is the only fact available.

 

2) Right after warranty expires the product stops working.

Conclusion: Product failed. No ifs ands or buts or any type of debate; we have a failed product.

 

3) Buyer attempts to get product repaired.

Conclusion: Dutiful attempt to get the product repaired.

 

4) Store where it is purchased from has no idea how to repair and has no idea who to speak with to get the product repaired.

Conclusion: Retail store has incompetent people working there. Yes, this conclusion is the first one that is debatable. But it is my conclusion

and I am the one who had this particular direct experience. You, Craig, are entitled to come to you own conclusion on this one.

 

5) Buyer, ME, tries calling Yamaha corporation but on the first few attempts does not get a live person. Then buyer looks to find authorized repair centers and gets mass confusion about what can and what cannot be repaired by more than one repair center.

Conclusion: Several Yamaha repair centers don't have a clue. Yes, this conclusion is subject to interpretation as well. Someone else may call up for a different repair and obtain a totally different conclusion and I respect that. But folks should also respect my conclusion based on my experience.

 

6) Buyer FINALLY, after many frustrating attempts, gets a real Yamaha repair person on the phone. Repair person is honest sounding and straightforward and tells buyer that he basically purchased throwaway junk because Yamaha charges $90 per hour for repair without consideration of the products retail cost and that the repair cost will definitely exceed the product cost.

Repair person's conclusion: Throw it away and purchase new device. This conclusion is not my own but as recommended by a professional working for Yamaha. Someone else is certainly entitled to come to a different conclusion.

 

7) I wanted to come to a different conclusion than the repair person and inquired about obtaining a schematic. Yamaha sells them at, I think, $69. BUT they won't sell one to me as I am not an authorized repair center.

Conclusion: Buyer can't obtain a schematic.

 

8) Buyer is left with a throw away piece of Junk.

Conclusion: Buyer is left with a throwaway piece of junk that can't be repaired for less than cost

 

9) Buyer has previously purchases Peavey products that were always repaired right at the factory, many of them at no charge but certainly NONE of them at a cost exceeded the original cost. This was without fail, no exceptions.

Conclusion: Peavey has always and consistently given good service.

 

10) Buyer also has experience with Yorkville Sound. The one Yorkville failure was addressed with one phone call where a real person answered. The part was sent overnight to buyer. Buyer happy! No cost involved! Buyer very happy!

Conclusion: Happy buyer!

 

11) Yamaha charges $90 per hour for repairs and it is very difficult to speak with a real person. Peavey charges $55 an hour and Yorkville charges $60 an hour. Both companies very easy to get real person to speak with.

Conclusion: BUYER chooses - not Craig as it is not his choice in this - BUYER chooses to purchase from companies that don't gouge on labor rates, where real people are easily available, who have demonstrated to Buyer that they can and will address problems with their equipment. Buyer - not Craig as it is not his choice in this - BUYER chooses to not purchase anymore products form a company that doesn't actually support them, a company that does charge exorbitant labor rates as compared to the other companies in consideration with peavey almost but not quite at half the cost. Buyer does not appreciate throw away products. Craig is entitled to appreciate them as much as he wants.

 

You understand now? Comprender? Dong? Verstehen? Come to your own conclusion and please quit harassing me.

[nchangin]

Tracking # received. Item to be delivered next week on Wednesday.

 

Re amplfiers and discussion. Thread derailed? Maybe, maybe not but I enjoy hearing others experience with all products..... My experence has led me to believe anything sub 600 dollar range for amplfiers to not be as dependable as 300 dollar amp which is a 300 dollar amp, doubt many pro's would be using that level of amp anyway. Hobbyists, yes, pro's probably not. I think a lot can be said about an amps job and what it's asked to do. If it's bridged and running 7 days a week what do you expect, it's going to wear and tear sooner than one running once a month non bridged. Environment: if it's running in 100 degree heat and exposed to humid conditions and or dust that affects life span as well as many other factors.

 

The servicer for mine was called lifetimeservice.com. May want to check them out they may be able to fix your yamaha at a reasonable rate.....or maybe not. Might want to call them, they in NY I believe (or where I shipped it to anyway)

[Craig Vecchione]

 

Some people, like me, respect a person's thread title and don't wish to cram the thread full of other topic even though other topic is mentioned in the thread.

Since you appear to be a moderator I will have to assume that this board has different policies on thread derailment or that this particular subsection does.

Every forum within Harmony Central has its own culture and standards. As you appear to be new here, it would be a wise move on your part to spend some time learning that culture. The topic of discussion has been thoroughly addressed...that's a must. Note that if the thread was "derailed", it was by you, as you brought up the issue you had with Yamaha. Not me or anyone else. So posting what you did, and then trying to prevent further discomfort to you by then deciding the discussion was off-topic is bad form. You opened the door, so don't be surprised when someone walks through it.

 

Your sarcastic wording isn't appreciated and won't be tolerated. While my questions are pointed and direct, I've been respectful of you as a person. You haven't really returned that favor. If you read the Guidelines sticky thread you'll note that I have particularly low tolerance for skirting the lines of acceptable behavior here.

 

Sit back, take a breath, and adjust.

[Craig Vecchione]

Regarding "Yamaha repair centers"; Yamaha does not own or franchise these shops. They are independent repair shops that contact or are contacted by Yamaha to become "authorized" centers. Many manufacturers do this. The manufacturer has little to no control over the actions of these shops other than to cease recommending them, and this is only if they are made aware of customer problems. There are good shops, bad shops, and all manner of 'tweeners. A customer can take a very black & white stance on this and state that the manufacturer's reputation is reflected by the shop's performance. But in the real world few areas are strictly black and white.

 

Did you request Yamaha consider a goodwill repair? Did you relate your poor service experience to Yamaha? Yes, they are a huge corporation but huge corporations also have customer relationship managers whose job is to ensure customers don't slip through the cracks, and that vendors like the repair shops are acting in the best interest of all concerned.

 

You mention in your last post that the amp was just out of warranty...a detail that wasn't mentioned prior and could indeed sway Yamaha to help with a goodwill repair.

[losound]

 

Every forum within Harmony Central has its own culture and standards. As you appear to be new here, it would be a wise move on your part to spend some time learning that culture. The topic of discussion has been thoroughly addressed...that's a must. Note that if the thread was "derailed", it was by you, as you brought up the issue you had with Yamaha. Not me or anyone else. So posting what you did, and then trying to prevent further discomfort to you by then deciding the discussion was off-topic is bad form. You opened the door, so don't be surprised when someone walks through it.

 

Your sarcastic wording isn't appreciated and won't be tolerated. While my questions are pointed and direct, I've been respectful of you as a person. You haven't really returned that favor. If you read the Guidelines sticky thread you'll note that I have particularly low tolerance for skirting the lines of acceptable behavior here.

 

Sit back, take a breath, and adjust.

MY sarcastic wording? YOU are the one that took a comment then bulldoged it down, then beat it to death, then turned it personal ( "Sorry, but you don't get to post whatever you want and then complain that you can't control the direction your posts took the thread").. NOT me. I thoroughly explained my comments and explained why I made them and they were all polite as well as funny and light hearted until you started your sarcastic stalking. I think you have let power of being a moderator go to your head. Your anti-social stalking of me in this thread is what should not be tolerated.

I never said I was uncomfortable with the topic, I was, UNLIKE YOU, attempting to be polite to the OP and not change the topic . Once a person says their opinion it is improper form for another to keep at it the way you have done - really improper, and you a moderator. Who watches you? I would like to send a complaint . Do you work for Yamaha or something? Certainly act like it; I was only explaining MY experiences with the product and the company.. Nothing has changed about what I said you simply were hearing what you wanted to hear. My last post detailed it so there could be no confusion and you couldn't come back with another "But I don't understand why....". I don't think anyone else didn't understand my post and reasoning; I shouldn't have to say it over and over just to satisfy your anti-social behavior. I thought this was a board of professionals - please start acting like one.

[losound]

Tracking # received. Item to be delivered next week on Wednesday.

 

Re amplfiers and discussion. Thread derailed? Maybe, maybe not but I enjoy hearing others experience with all products..... My experence has led me to believe anything sub 600 dollar range for amplfiers to not be as dependable as 300 dollar amp which is a 300 dollar amp, doubt many pro's would be using that level of amp anyway. Hobbyists, yes, pro's probably not. I think a lot can be said about an amps job and what it's asked to do. If it's bridged and running 7 days a week what do you expect, it's going to wear and tear sooner than one running once a month non bridged. Environment: if it's running in 100 degree heat and exposed to humid conditions and or dust that affects life span as well as many other factors.

 

The servicer for mine was called lifetimeservice.com. May want to check them out they may be able to fix your yamaha at a reasonable rate.....or maybe not. Might want to call them, they in NY I believe (or where I shipped it to anyway)

Glad you got taken care of. There is something to be said for the extended warranties. Shipping alone on these types of products is killer.

The 300 amp I was referring to was a personal practice amp, a THD-10 - not a pro-sound amp. I am a musician. as well as a sound engineer. Yes, the pro sound amps are expensive but actually way better bargain than they used to be. Easy to get a lot of funds tied up in this.

 

edit: and another apology for the thread derail

[Craig Vecchione]

 

MY sarcastic wording? YOU are the one that took a comment then bulldoged it down, then beat it to death, then turned it personal ( "Sorry, but you don't get to post whatever you want and then complain that you can't control the direction your posts took the thread").. NOT me. I thoroughly explained my comments and explained why I made them and they were all polite as well as funny and light hearted until you started your sarcastic stalking. I think you have let power of being a moderator go to your head. Your anti-social stalking of me in this thread is what should not be tolerated.

I never said I was uncomfortable with the topic, I was, UNLIKE YOU, attempting to be polite to the OP and not change the topic . Once a person says their opinion it is improper form for another to keep at it the way you have done - really improper, and you a moderator. Who watches you? I would like to send a complaint . Do you work for Yamaha or something? Certainly act like it; I was only explaining MY experiences with the product and the company.. Nothing has changed about what I said you simply were hearing what you wanted to hear. My last post detailed it so there could be no confusion and you couldn't come back with another "But I don't understand why....". I don't think anyone else didn't understand my post and reasoning; I shouldn't have to say it over and over just to satisfy your anti-social behavior. I thought this was a board of professionals - please start acting like one.

 

By all means complain to forum Admins if you feel there's a problem with me here. The "power of being a moderator" isn't at issue...I've done nothing more than try to get you to understand this forum's culture, rather than let you continue in a vain attempt to make it conform to your wishes. That's something any other member could and would do, but you happened to have issues with me. I haven't threatened or taken any moderation action, have I?

 

It isn't "stalking" to ask questions. You obviously don't understand that it's the writer's, not the reader's responsibility to explain something if your point, opinion, or view isn't understood by the reader.

 

Where do you get off telling us what is "proper form" here? I'll repeat that it's your job as a newcomer to observe and understand the culture of a forum. That's how this forum operates, not by bending and swaying to the whims of every newbie who comes through the door.

 

And no, I don't work for Yamaha or something.

[nchangin]

I received it last week, I was prepping for a show last weekend with my passive system, so I plugged it in to test, it worked, unplugged it put it in the garage. Last night hooked it all up with ZLX's worked fine, went to disconnect the input cable, STUCK and the little clip thingy appears to be broke, pulled out the amp box and non serviceable without solder iron it appears, back to the shop. I have yet to ever see this happen on any XLR connector....SIGH.... :(

[cappttenron]

Sometimes writing a letter to the President of the company or the VP of Marketing will get you farther than you may think. I had a problem with a router from Motorola and went through 3 of them in one year all getting progressively worse and then dying. Wrote the VP and President and got a full refund. Bought a Netgear that has been working great for the past year both made in China possibly the same factory. I'm sure it was a faulty electronic part supplier as that all three had the same symptoms.