PreSonus DigiMax FS (8-chan mic pre with ADAT/analog I/O) - Now with Conclusions

[ValleySound]

 

Originally posted by mattrw89 What about a comparison between the Digimax 96K and the Digimax FS? I know the 96K have special limiters that are supposed to smooth out clipping as well as a little better converters. But, regarding the limiting functions, as long as you keep the gain low enough is the limiter an advantage at all? Secondly, what is the sound quality difference in the A->D Converters between the 96K and the FS? Thanks, Matt P.S. Thanks for the GREAT review!

 

The company said that the A->D convertors are the same in the 96k and FS. The limiters have to be set carefully if you are recording as they become audible if used too much. They are supposed to be compressor/limiter and I'll tell you that they are definitely brickwall limiters if you need to protect against digital overs such as sources that have large transients like kick or snare. I pretty much have them all set in the same place and you can see the signal stop if they dp slam them hard.

[nollie]

 

Originally posted by Anderton However, this still leaves an upper and lower shielding panel in place. To remove this, you would presumably need to unscrew the lock nuts from 24 1/4” jacks, 2 BNC connectors, and a wall wart connector. Now, I love you guys and all that, but that’s a lot of work!

 

 

It took me less time to remove all the nuts than it's taking for me to write this post. (Place the socket on the locknut. No need for the wrench/handle--you'll have enough torque just turning the socket with your fingers. Turn the socket less than one turn. And off comes the locknut. Repeat 23 more times.) 5 minutes maybe?

 

Here are the resulting photos.

 

Although the Class A preamps are made up of discrete surface-mount components, there are a bunch of 33079 quad op amps supporting the DACs, inserts, and direct outs.

[rottert]

Hi,

 

I'd like to connect the ADAT outs to 2 different recorders for backup reasons, so I was wondering if both ADAT outputs are active in non-SMUX mode and can be used in parallel?

 

(I want to feed a MOTU 828 as well as a Mackie SDR24/96)

 

Thanks!

[cioto]

Still waiting for my insert question!

[ricknaqvi]

 

So I'd like to know if the ADAT out and the direct analog out can be used simultaneously

 

 

Absolutely. The application that you describe is EXACTLY the purpose that we included analog direct outputs for the preamps that work simultaneously as the ADAT lightpipe output.

 

I use the Digimax FS in the same way in my live recording rig - I send the lightpipe out to the Firestudio while the analog direct outputs feed an Alesis HD24 that is used for backup.

 

Another cool use of the multiple outputs was used by Peter McCabe when he recorded Macy Gray a few months back. They set up the recording rig right by the monitor console on the side of the stage with four Digimax FS preamps that were feeding a ProTools system. The plugged the snake that was supposed to be feeding the monitor console DIRECTLY into the Digimax FS preamps. Then the ADAT outputs fed the PT rig and the Digimax analog outputs fed the monitor console. Here's a link to a video where he explained the set up: http://www.presonus.com/peter_mccabe.html

 

Hope this helps.

Rick

[ricknaqvi]

 

I'd like to connect the ADAT outs to 2 different recorders for backup reasons, so I was wondering if both ADAT outputs are active in non-SMUX mode and can be used in parallel?

 

 

Great question. I will find out for sure for you tomorrow. At this time I don't think that it is possible to send 2 ADAT signals of the same eight channels because I believe the 2nd ADAT port is reserved for channels 5-8 when in 96k SMUX mode.

 

However, if you have the 828 and the SDR, you can send the 828 the lightpipe output from the DMFS and the backup device cna get the analog outputs from the DMFS at the same time. I do the same thing with my Firestudio and Alesis HD24 and it works perfectly.

 

Hope this helps.

[cioto]

Hi rick, do you know if inserting jack connectors half-way in the insert socket break the signal path? I could use them as additional analog outputs.

Thanks!

[ricknaqvi]

Here's the deal with the inserts:

 

you can wire a special cable to make them into direct outputs.

 

HOWEVER, if you plug just a regular TS jack ALL THE WAY IN, it will bypass the mic preamp and go straight to the A/D converter. This is for guys that want to plug external mic preamps into the Digimax FS and not go through a line amplifier stage.

 

If you plug it half way in, then it will give you another output just like the Direct Outputs that are included.

 

I could get you the wiring diagram to make an eight channel snake that will turn your inserts into ANOTHER set of outputs. You will also be able to plug them all of the way in instead of risking a 'half in' scenario which really make me nervous......

 

That would give you a total of THREE sets of simultaneous outputs:

 

1. ADAT output

2. Analog direct outputs

3. Inserts as outputs

 

Please email me directly at rnaqvi@presonus.com and I'll send you the diagram. I'm in Florida at a conference and will be back in the office on Tuesday so it might take a day or so.

 

Kind Regards,

rick

[Signal to Noise]

Excellent, excellent Review! I have been curious about the FS for quite a while now, for one having more 8 more decent pres w/ inserts, two having eight more analog outs for analog summing/ bussing. I will buy one shortly and post my results.

 

I am currently using the MOTU 2408 MK3 running Digital Performer.

I have a few decent mic pres, Avalon, Trident, MCI

OK mics, AKG 414, Oktava 319, Shure KSM27

 

I have noticed / read that the clock/audio section in MOTU products leave something to be desired (http://www.blacklionaudio.com/motu_firewire_mod.html)

 

What I'm hoping is that Digimax FS will reduce what I tend to notice which is this: When monitoring thru the 2408, the signal sounds great, once recorded, the playback is a little disappointing.

 

New jitter reduction technology for smear-free audio The DigiMax FS is loaded with new patented JetPLL jitter reduction technology ensuring ultra-high converter performance, fast and robust locking through a wide range and variation of frequencies and noise noise shaping to remove nearly all audio band jitter.

[ricknaqvi]

 

Hi rick, do you know if inserting jack connectors half-way in the insert socket break the signal path?

 

 

No, it won't break the signal path. However, I can send you a wiring diagram that will enable you to plug them all the way in and get another set of direct outputs. Just email me directly and I'll get it to you.

 

THANKS!

[cubistguitar]

I have added the FS to my Yamaha LS-9 16 mixer and it makes a great addition to the front end.

 

However the DAC outs don't seem to be as full and present as the yamaha outs

 

Do I need to do some more setup?

 

The Yamaha is the master clock (48K) and the connection is by their 16 channel adat i/o ( 2 optis in and 2 optis out) I have 1 connection in and out

 

I had hoped the outs could function as "zone" outputs to run to speakers in odd places in a live setup or to add connections to monitoring or recording equipment.

 

Maybe the Yamaha connections are just that good, but they really kick the FS in the ass. The mic pres are excellent, can't really tell any big difference from the yamaha pres( which are just a tiny bit bigger sounding )

 

I want this to be user error, cuz I can use all the outputs I can get

[Eradicator]

Morereverb:

 

Just thought I'd ask if you have replaced the lightpipe cable.

 

Also, do you hear the distortion from just the pre's? Do you have a way to run the pre direct into an analog mixer in and out to the monitors? This would help in diagnosing if this is a pre issue or a converter issue.

 

The converters in the FS are the same converters in the Digimax 96 (so I'm told anyway).

 

Maybe there is an issue with the BLA modded converters and the new JetPLL technology converters in the FS???

 

I have a FS unit on the way from an eBay purchase, so I will test it in Pro Tools as soon as it comes in.

 

 

Eradicator

N00b to Pro Tools

Long time recording engineer

[morereverb]

Eradicator, I'm checking the lightpipe cable and doing a few other diagnostic tests tonight...will report back. I realize that my earlier rant may be premature, especially considering that no one else is experiencing same issues. No disrespect to Craig or Presonus -- could very well be my error, not the unit's. Still learning the hidden pitfalls of the digital realm here, I guess.

[morereverb]

Eradiacator, you'll enjoy your purchase. Thanks very much for the diagnostic help.

 

I'm digging my FS now that I got it slaving right to my BLA-modded Traveler via BNC cable. The preamps do sound very nice.

 

Hats off to Presonus, thanks to Anderton.

[AmpliFuzz]

I have Signal to Noise's same question - will the Digimax FS make my M-Audio Firewire 1814 analog I/Os better sounding thru better clocking, or in any event provide better quality converters using its own? It would be a great side benefit of having 8 more good pres, the main reason for buying. I'm not a ADC connoisseur by any means, but lately I find the 1814 ones somewhat lacking.

[waltert99]

This reivew was really helpful-I just bought a Digimax FS and love the preamps-but I do have one problem.

 

I'm using a DIGI 001 with OSX 10.3.2 and PTLE 6.4 and the 001 won't seem to sync perfectly with the optical input(Digimax set to be the Master) I get clicks every now and then even with no input-I also have a ADA8000(to compare them-D-FS wins hand down) and the Behringer does the same thing-only much worse.

 

Here's the funny thing-they both seem to work fine in OS9. So it sounds like either an OS X problem or a 6.4 with OSX problem, has anyone experienced the same thing? Or am I the only guy that hasn't upgraded to a 002?

 

 

P.S. I guess I could run it with 001 as master but I was hoping to take advantage of the better clock on the Digimax-would I lose the benefits of the low jitter technology?

[ScofieldKid]

A schematic/chart would help. Didn't see one in the manual.

 

ADAT out is ah the 8-channels of A-to-D from the analog inputs.

 

ADAT in is a source for the DAC outputs. Completely unreleated functions, correct? So there is no internal mixing or DAW routing that would use the DAC outputs? It's just the mirror of the ADAT in, and that is all? Correct?

 

Or, is it the case, that if you are using the firewire and ASIO drivers, you can take ADAT in as input, and/or also use ADAT out as customizable mix for output? Similar question for DAC out?

 

Or is this device just simpler in concept than that? What got me thinking about this was: if I have a line-in, bring it in on firewire, mix it with something else, then want it to appear on an analog output... where would it appear? If the DAC outputs are occupied in use by the ADAT in, then my ASIO routing would drop on the floor? Or would I need to use a separate box for doing mixed D/A output?

[ricknaqvi]

 

Completely unreleated functions, correct? So there is no internal mixing or DAW routing that would use the DAC outputs? It's just the mirror of the ADAT in, and that is all?

 

 

 

You are correct. The ADAT inputs give you eight analog outputs (DAC outputs) from your DAW. Depending on how extensive the DSP mixer of your interface is, you can route any stream from the DAW or combination of inputs and DAW returns to the DAC Outputs.

 

For example, if you are using the Digimax FS in conjunction with an interface like the Firestudio, you can route any one of nine stereo internal mixes of the inputs and playback streams to the DAC outputs. They show up as outputs 9-16 and 17-24 of the Firestudio.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Kind Regards,

[ricknaqvi]

 

I guess I could run it with 001 as master but I was hoping to take advantage of the better clock on the Digimax-would I lose the benefits of the low jitter technology?

 

 

With a 001, the only way to use a Digimax FS is to set it up as the master clock in your hardware preferences.

 

Make sure that the Digimax is set to whatever sample rate your session is at. And also make sure that the Digimax is set to 'INTERNAL' on the front panel and not 'adat sync'.

 

Kind Regards,

[Anderton]

Thanks for responding, Rick! BTW I will be testing the DigiMAX FS as an expander for the Alesis io26 in a "neighboring" Pro Review.

[ScofieldKid]

Ah, thanks for the quick response.

 

It occurs to me, then you could use this thing for like an 8-channel 1-to-3 fanout device, going 8-out of the inserts, 8-out of the direct outs, then looping an ADAT cable from ADAT out to ADAT in, then using the DAC outs as copy #3.

 

Fun!

[bbdude]

Craig,

Great review. Did you get a chance to try the Inserts as line-ins? I was wondering if this would be a beter way to go than thru the front panel line-ins? My goal would be to bypass the preamp. I have a number of line-level sources (2 stereo keyboards, 4 Mixer Subouts, etc). I don't know if the front panel inputs bypass the pres or not. Also, if you did test the inserts, do the gain knobs affect the level of the signal? Also are the clip leds functional when inputting via the inserts, and finally, if a line-level signal is fed into the insert, would it also appear on the direct-out?

- the bbdude

[jeff92k7]

 

Now, let me make it clear that I believe there are basically three types of mic pres in this world: * Cheapo pres. * Middle-class "designer" pres. These are what you find in better quality mid-class gear, like the Mackie Onyx preamps, those in the 1820m, and the PreSonus. * Big-bucks "designer" pres. ... the fact is that the DigiMAX FS has eight pres vs. the two in the 1820m or two in the Onyx Satellite (which I used as a comparison). The fact that they sound very "honest," and balanced across the spectrum, is pretty cool given the price. Bottom line: You get eight very fine mic pres in the DigiMAX FS that I would file under the "middle class designer pre" category...actually, maybe even upper middle class.

 

 

 

I would be very interested in your thoughts of how the Digimax FS Preamps compare to the Onyx Preamps. You list them as both being "middle class" and then list the Presonus as "maybe even upper middle class." Does that mean that the PreSonus sound ever so slightly more accurate than the Onyx pres?

 

I have an Onyx Satellite and have been pleased with the preamps. I am now looking for an 8-channel preamp with ADAT I/O to expand a TT24 and my curiosity about the DigiMax FS has been stirred, especially since it is a bit less expensive than the 800r.

 

Thanks,

Jeff Foster

[Tigr-leo]

Hi,people!!! My name is Leo and I sound-engineer from Russia.

I use RME FF800 and I need more chanals and micpreamps. I want to buy DigiMax FS, but I don't know minimum-possible input level this interface???

 

How much power-level overshoot stand it(1\4 jack connection)???

My RME FF800 = +19 dB.

and DigiMax FS = ?????

 

P.S. Sorry my English:)

[ricknaqvi]

Hi Leo,

 

The maximum input level is +22dBu on the line inputs. (Unity Gain, 1KHz @ 0.5% THD+N)

 

Hope this helps.

 

Kind Regards,