PreSonus DigiMax FS (8-chan mic pre with ADAT/analog I/O) - Now with Conclusions

[Anderton]

This time I took the ADAT output of the Konnekt 24D, patched it into the DigiMAX FS, and there was a hopeful sign as the FS synched right up to K24D. With the K24D, the ADAT outs go to ADAT channels 1+2. I monitored DAC outs 1 and 2, and...same problem, same nasty distortion. This was such a simple setup, with so few variables, I don't think there any sync or level mismatches.

 

As I can't imagine that the FS is operating as it's supposed to, and as I'm really quite sure I didn't do anything wrong with the hookup, my gut feeling says it's a hardware problem. I realize hardware problems are pretty rare these days, but...I don't know what else it could be. Rick? Have you heard about anything like this...am I doing some bonehead thing?

[Anderton]

Well at this point I only had two things left to test: The inserts and the direct outs. So hold on a second while I patch an Aphex Compressor into the channel 1 insert...

 

Okay, that works.

[Anderton]

Okay, let's try the direct outs...I'll patch into an input of my DA7...

 

Yup, they work just fine too. And just to make sure there's no confusion, these are post-preamp direct outs, not direct outs from the mic inputs. But you knew that

[Anderton]

>

 

The only problem with that is the biggest file I can attach to a post with this version of VBulletin is 102K, which is a little over six seconds of audio with 128kbps MP3 audio. So while I've used quite a few audio examples in pro reviews (for example, check out the Sonar 6 Pro Review) to show obvious effects like quantizing drums or specific guitar effects, the kind of subtle differences I'm talking about get demolished just by being converted to MP3.

 

I've been lobbying for private hard disk space on the HC server to stash bigger audio and video examples that people could download...maybe someday

[ralfstein]

 

Originally posted by Anderton However, the DigiMAX FS has a cool and unexpected feature: 8 DAC outputs that can "listen" to the ADAT in (these DAC outs are in addition to the direct outs that come from each input). The DA7 has a total of 16 analog ins (the aforementioned eight XLR ins plus eight line-level balanced inputs), making it well-suited to the DigiMAX FS. I hooked up the DA7 ADAT out to the DigiMAX FS ADAT in, set the DA7 to master, and synced the DigiMAX FS to external ADAT sync. The ADAT outs show up as bus outs in the DA7, so now I had eight bused aux outs. I patched one of the DAC outs back into one of the analog line in channels. So far so good. ... The sound coming back into the DA7 had a nasty distortion, as if it had gone through bit reduction. I tried other sync scenarios, other DAC outputs, balanced audio lines, audio unbalanced lines...nothing could get rid of that nasty distortion. Was it somehow a problem with the DA7 ADAT outs? I looped the ADAT out back to the ADAT in on the DA7, and it performed exactly as expected. After beating my head against the wall for over an hour, I gave up...I just couldn't get the DAC outs to be happy. Could it be a hardware problem within the DigiMAX FS? I'm going to try the DAC outs with some other ADAT-compatible gear and see what happens. Stay tuned...

 

 

I was wondering if the problem with the nasty distortion coming from the DAC outs is solved or solvable. I was looking to use the digimax fs as filler pres and the DAC outs as main outs plus for different headphone mixes (since it'll give me 8 new outputs for my daw). In all scenarios the nasty bit reduction type distortion was present? This is actually a mayor flaw then. Any news?

[ralfstein]

great review by the way:thu:

[Anderton]

 

Yes. I contacted PreSonus about this, and they were going to overnight a new model to me on Wednesday, but the shipping department was closed because of the Thanksgiving holidays. They'll be sending one out on Monday and I'll have it on Tuesday.

 

They could not duplicate the problem there and no one else has reported anything similar, so it seems likely this is a hardware problem unique to my unit. UPS is not always kind & gentle with their shipping practices and I did notice the side of the box had been hit pretty hard. The fact that everything else works perfectly also leads me to believe it's an isolated issue. I'll report back on Tuesday.

 

BTW based on what other people have told me, PreSonus is responsive to customer problems in general, not just to some guy doing a Pro Review on Harmony Central

[ralfstein]

Cool. It hopefully and probably IS an isolated issue (would be ridiculous if not). Thanks. Looking forward to more on this pro review.

I wrote to presonus once and they never answered. But i'm not yet a customer, so, maybe that's why.

[Anderton]

>

 

FWIW, they opened up a forum last week to help provide support for potential as well as existing customers.

[maximumpf]

I just installed my new Digimax FS, due in part to this review. Thanks for the good information guys and gals.

 

It hooked up to my RME 9652 card and I was up and running in minutes. After an hour or two all of my Sonar (4PE 6PE on the way) sessions were up and running without a glitch. I A/B'd the converters in the FS with my old 16 bit converters and the difference was immediately noticeable.

 

I need extra outs since I will often submix effects though my hardware boxes and I only have one set of SPIDF outs that are dedicated to my DAT or Lexicon MPX-1. They also make monitoring and cue mixes a breeze, particularly when I work with a couple of guys who are seriously into the MORE ME thing.

 

JT

[Anderton]

Thanks for the feedback! I'm glad you're finding it to be everything this thread says it is.

 

If you have something with an ADAT out, would you mind running through the DACs and see if you experience the same weirdness I did?

[tourtelot]

Any update on the ADAT to analog output isue that you were having? That, weirdly enough, is the primary interest in this unit. I need the eight outs from my Yamaha panel, and the eight mic pres into it would be a nice bonus.

 

D.

[Anderton]

PreSonus is sending out another unit in case there was a hardware problem with the one I have here. It was sent out Fed Ex, but it's been snowing a lot here and I don't know if the Fed Ex truck will make it up the driveway today

 

As soon as it arrives, I'll test it out. I really do get the sense that the problem relates to my particular unit, as I'm the only person who's mentioned this to PreSonus. If it was a design flaw, I think they'd 1) be able to reproduce it and 2) others would have complained.

[tourtelot]

Thanks. Good review, BTW. Very thorough.

 

D.

[Anderton]

Good review, BTW. Very thorough.

 

Thanks much, that's what Pro Reviews are all about

[Anderton]

PreSonus sent me a replacement DigiMAX FS, so I plugged it in and...yes! The ADAT-to-DAC output function worked perfectly. Sounded just fine, too.

 

Then again, this one's box didn't have a big dent in the side

 

Okay, I think we're pretty much ready to move on to the conclusions.

[Anderton]

Granted, an 8 mic pre to ADAT converter is not the sexiest piece of gear in the world. But this gets extra points for several reasons.

 

First, defective unit aside (and it's interesting that whatever was wrong didn't take out anything else), everything worked equal to or better than advertised. The mic pres are better than what would expect in this price range, and the clocking is rock solid.

 

Second, the additional features are very useful. Having insert jacks for the ins is great, including direct outs can be convenient for backup/safety recording situations, and the ADAT-to-DAC output concept is useful. Although I did try to use the DAC outs to expand the aux outs in my DA7, the concept ended up not being very useful because the DA7 has no way to adjust the level going to the ADAT output buses -- not surprising, as these were intended to feed a multitrack recorder, not provide aux sends. This wasn't PreSonus's intended application for the DAC outs anyway, but I was hoping they could be tricked into doing something they weren't meant to do.

 

On the other hand, where the DAC outs did shine -- unexpectedly -- was for using external effects in conjunction with computer interfaces having ADAT I/O. No matter how "in the box" your studio is, I'd bet you probably have a couple cool analog effects sitting around you'd like to use. With the DigiMAX FS, it's easy: Route a track to an interface ADAT out, patch the corresponding DAC output into your effect, then patch the effect out into a DigiMAX FS in and feed it to an audio input. Yes, there will be some latency by doing the D/A - D/A shuffle, but this can be adjusted through track sliding during mixdown (and if you have Cubase SX3 or Cubase 4, can be compensated for automatically).

 

Also remember that two of the inputs are guitar-friendly high-impedance inputs, so you can even route into guitar stomp boxes that expect to see a high-impedance input. That definitely appeals to me

[Anderton]

The more I used the DigiMAX FS, the more I felt this was more of a collection of modules that just happened to work together as a cohesive unit. By that, I mean that some people might see it solely as a way to get more mic inputs into a computer interface they otherwise like, but lacks I/O (or that they want to use for live recording). Or, consider an interface like the E-Mu 1616 -- great interface, but it has only two mic/instrument ins. Because it has ADAT I/O, not only can adding a DigiMAX FS give you four instrument inputs and six mic ins (or 10 mic ins, etc.), you can even do surround mixing by pumping signal to the ADAT out, and taking the DAC outs to a surround monitoring system.

 

It's also the only thing in my studio that, thanks to the SMUX option, can get clean mic signals into my Creamware interface at 88.2 or 96kHz. And while I have no real use for the direct outs, for live recording, they would definitely come in handy.

 

So overall, it's very much in keeping with what seems to be the PreSonus product philosophy: An "in the trenches" box designed to solve real-world problems, for which you get more than you expect, given the price.

 

And that concludes the "official" part of the review, as I've tested and evaluated every feature the DigiMAX FS offers. However, the thread is of course still open for any questions or comments you might have, or in case I come up with any other applications I might have missed the first time around.

[tourtelot]

Thanks! Just what I needed to hear. Now what can I sell to come up with the money?

 

D

[Anderton]

I was under the impression that you had to use both ADAT outs or ins in order to do the SMUX thing at 88.2 or 96kHz. However, I just found out from Mike Martin at TC that the DigiMAX FS will output channels 1-4 over one of the ADAT outs.

[cioto]

Hi!

I'm new. Thanks for the review, glad to see everything is fine with the new digimax.

I'd like to ask you something, before I buy my digimax fs.

I do live multitrack recording, and I get the signals from the insert of the FOH console. So I must rely on the gain settings on this board... if for some reason, during the show, this gain are changed, my rec levels change too. Beside this, I'd like to connect everything to my pres (the digimax pres must be absolutely better than the FOH's Behringer...).

So I'd like to know if the ADAT out and the direct analog out can be used simultaneously, becaus I want to use the ADAT for the recording (with my motu828) and the direct out to feed the mixer analog line in.

Plus, I'd like to know if connecting jacks half-way in the inserts break the signal paths, because I may want to use these out as additional/backup analog outs.

Thanks a lot!!!

[Anderton]

{b]Beside this, I'd like to connect everything to my pres (the digimax pres must be absolutely better than the FOH's Behringer...)

 

That's a pretty safe assumption

 

So I'd like to know if the ADAT out and the direct analog out can be used simultaneously, becaus I want to use the ADAT forthe recording (with my motu828) and the direct out to feed the mixer analog line in.

 

Yes. They're both available at all times.

 

Plus, I'd like to know if connecting jacks half-way in the inserts break the signal paths, because I may want to use these out as additional/backup analog outs.

 

Excellent question! Unfortunately I'm in Tokyo and away from my studio, but I will check when I return home...or maybe someone from PreSonus can answer before I get back?

[ValleySound]

Great reviews of the newest Digimax. I bought three of the 96K at about the time when the FS came out. I went with the 96k for the limiters as well as individual phantom and pads. I don't think I will buy the FS just for the fact that I have 24 channels of Digimax pre's and will probably jump to boutique pre-amps that add certain character sound quality.

I emailed the company a while back and here is a little extra info:

"The LT and original 48k DM use 24bit Alesis converters. The Digimax96k and Digimax FS use higher end AKM's. All 4 have different preamp designs. ; ) We like to keep it interesting rather than copy/paste the same preamp design over and over like some folks do."

So they are also saying, that their A->D converters are of greater quality as well. This I think is very important, because the preamp design is half the sound and by using the ADAT or digital outs, you are accessing very good quality A->D conversion. If they had used lesser converters, there would be the possibilty that the analog output quality would be better than the digital output. Aswe see with the FS, the digital outputs and flexibilty are what make the product extremely unique and beneficial beyond just being another pre-amp on the market

[mattrw89]

What about a comparison between the Digimax 96K and the Digimax FS? I know the 96K have special limiters that are supposed to smooth out clipping as well as a little better converters. But, regarding the limiting functions, as long as you keep the gain low enough is the limiter an advantage at all? Secondly, what is the sound quality difference in the A->D Converters between the 96K and the FS?

 

Thanks,

Matt

 

P.S. Thanks for the GREAT review!

[Anderton]

I don't have a 96k, so I can't really offer any comparisons...anyone out there have comments?