TC ELECTRONIC KONNEKT 24D (FireWire Audio Interface)

[c4logic]

My guess is that to make software and hardware do what they do, audio and video companies have to either bypass standards or modify them. Or the standards just weren't very good for the purpose to begin with.

 

 

That may very well be true. But I don't think its the standard that is weak, cause a lot of these firewire interfaces work just fine.

 

 

 

The thing is, from my experience, Windows XP isn't plug and play. It's supposed to be but it just ain't. If it were, I wouldn't have to install drivers for every new (and old!) printer and scanner I attach. As a software engineer, I'm sure you can appreciate the fact that a lot of current 16-bit install wizards won't work on 64-bit Vista -another fabled plug-n-play OS.

 

 

Well, plug and play has been evolving for many years but it has been relatively stable from Win2k on. If software is not forward compatible with Vista its because they changed an interface in Vista. One of the big problems with the windows platform over the years has been shaped by backwards compatibility requirements with the original Intel 8086 chip and the 20-bit segmented memory model(real mode) they compromised with in DOS. Then they added expanded memory(paged memory), and extended mode memory in the 286 chip and finally in the 386 chip you ended up with emulated paged memory, extended memory, and pointers to pointers to pointers. So any kind of programming beyond the ascii set, like graphics or video, was always a challenge on that platform--which is why you never saw anything but Macs in the graphics department of advertizing firms. Flat addressing space. My understanding is that with Vista, they finally bit the bullet and abandoned backwards compatibility for a number of applications. It's about time. Microsoft has such a sordid history

 

 

I work on media-focused machines all the time and I can't tell you how many software programs and pieces of hardware have their little (often big) quirks. One such software I use, Mediashout, is basically Power Point on steroids. However, because it does so much stuff (plays video, dvd, audio, motion backgrounds, etc...) it's latest version has been plagued with problems for the past year even though all it's supposed to do is send video data to a monitor and play audio. I would think it'd be easy to program software to do that but, obviously, it isn't or else I'd have had a lot more sleep-filled nights.

 

 

This type of application really needs parallel RISC processors like we used to see on the Silicon Graphics platform running IRIX. Today's hybrid processors on the Intel platform can barely handle that level of multitasking--although windows thread management has always been problematic. We once wrote a stroboscobe emulation to compare Windows multi-tasking with OS/2. With 28 windows open side by side on each screen, we launched the strobes. On OS/2, they all ran in perfect sync. But on Windows, you could watch the strobe in each window stop and start as the thread was yielded--it was pathetic. We decided Windows was not suitable as a server for any kind of control software, such as opening doors, regulating heat, running elevators, machine tools etc, for this reason. And audio recording is analogous to a real time control process. But that was before the Pentium, and before 2gb memory was standard. However, I doubt if their concurrent thread management has changed, much.

 

As for TCE -- I am not convinced they care about their customers.

[jpleong]

Anecdote: Here's a story of a company with integrity in name and in deed: Sennheiser.

 

 

I'd say your story should read "Antidote" in our current context. Sounds like great service!

 

JP

[ibanezfoo]

...and Xerox and Oce. I work with high end production printers... I like Mac and PC equally but I have to say, for machines touted as fancy graphics workstations, Macs sure have a hell of a time actually functioning properly with production graphics equipment. Ironic.


Anyway, people do need to give information about their computers if they want real help. When we have problems with something we've coded, theres a huge list of things we ask. The more information you can provide, the easier it is to troubleshoot. Sometimes though, with all the info, you just can't recreate the problem. If you can't see something fail, its nearly impossible to fix.... just like when you take you car to the dealer (of course it always runs perfect when you take it in though, eh? ) Sometimes the problems don't make sense... for instance, we install these DRI cards in PCs to drive big printers... well, if you install them into certain computers with a VIA chipset on the motherboard, they do not work correctly. If you install them into a computer with an Intel chipset they work just fine. Same processors, same ram chips, hard drives, video cards, everything else. Just the motherboard chipset is different. After many go arounds with the manufacturer of the DRI card, it turns out there is a weird timing issue with the VIA chipset.... though the issue doesn't manifest anywhere except running prints of a certain length. Eventually we got a new chip to replace on the DRI card and it worked ok.... but it took awhile to get there.

I agree we should not be kept in the dark as we have, but I have to agree with jpleong's post.... especially being on the other side of the issue. We generally try to keep everyone up with status reports on our software (which is internal, we do not market it...) if nothing else, to keep our support calls down and not having to answer the same 2 questions over and over and over and over and over and over and over Now, what I'm going to say I don't feel is right or completely applies to this particular situation, but it is another bit of insight I have experienced. We find alot of the complaints and support calls are caused by the users and not by software bugs. Again, I'm not saying this is the case with the Konnect. The point I'm trying to get to is after alot of this, your initial reaction starts becoming to automatically blame the user, especially when they aren't providing any helpful information. I often tell the users "Look, you have to help me help you." This doesn't mean this behaviour is correct or should be excused, but it happens. The more information you provide, the better your chances of success when dealing with any kind of computer related support.

Bleh well sorry for rambling. I'm really tired. Long day of setting up video conferencing servers and wiring conference rooms

[c4logic]

My point is this: while Sennheiser was a much bigger company than the problem, they took it seriously. They acted immediately, found the problem at the electron level, and then were open, honest, admitted they were at fault (though it was, in fact, a supplier), showed us the problem, asked what they needed to do to make it right, and followed through. The replacement units, rushed into production overseas and shipped in under a few weeks, never failed. I would go to my grave swearing on Sennheiser's integrity. They've *shown*me how important I am to them. TCE has the chance to open a floodgate here, or continue to hold it shut. Either way, the water's rising... and I'm thinking that this 24D is *not* gonna work as a flotation device.

 

 

Nice story about Sennheiser. I have some of their equipment that's been working flawlessly for over a decade and I can still order replacement parts. Kinda makes you want to continue to do business with them. TCE is nothing but a question mark, for me, at this point.

[jhebert]

I just re-read the Q&A near the bottom of the TCE support post from a bit earlier...

 

Did anyone notice this question in there:"Have you at any point used the Konnekt Beta drivers?"

 

Since there are *no* publicly available beta drivers, methinks they are on a witch-hunt for someone with the initials CA.

Craig, run!

[jpleong]

Should Craig be checking the half-empty/half-full glass to make sure it's not laced????

 

We have, like, 70 more posts until we break 1,500 for this thread. Can we do it before new drivers?

 

JP

[ibanezfoo]

I personally, found an issue using a logitech wireless mouse and keyboard. Technical support is jerking this guy around.

 

 

We had the Microsoft intellegent keyboard software crash a few of our workstations. We could duplicate the error at will. If it had a memory resident printer manager software running and the memory resident keyboard software would run at the same time, it would crash. Every time. Easily duplicated on several machines. Tossed the keyboard software and everything worked fine. The printer manager software had no issues with any other software so we determined it was the microsoft software and it was banished from our company.

[ibanezfoo]

But inside of 1 week, Sennheiser had found the problem, faxed us electron microscope views of the issue (a faulty batch of chips had some sort of "coating" on their pins, causing them ultimately to separate from the IC board where they had been mounted during manufacturing). The act of charging a receiver unit warmed the board, and they cooled afterward once charged. The expansion and contraction caused by warming and cooling caused the separation. In the end, some 90% of the original units failed.

 

 

Same thing happened with alot of 3Com network interfaces.... except 3Com denied it and told us to take a flying leap.

[ibanezfoo]

This type of application really needs parallel RISC processors like we used to see on the Silicon Graphics platform running IRIX.

 

 

Ack don't get me started on those POSs. I have a pile of Indys and O2s that I'm going to take with me to the shooting range one of these days. I always thought the hardware was great but the software we were forced to run was the worst.

[designerthumbs]

designerthumbs, as a Konnekt 24D user who was having problems early on (with the unit and tech support), you're not being particularly helpful nor supportive of the folks who are still having problems. It's great yours is working and all but there are definitely still issues that need to be sorted & patched and users who still need help. Insulting attitudes don't help, regardless of which side they come from. JP

 

 

Ok but I found a solution to my problems not from Tech support but from searching. People are lazy wanting everything done for them and moaning about when its not done for them.

If you educated yourself on how something works you may understand what could go wrong with it ie. computers

As I have said I have every sympathy for those who tried and clearly have something beyond their capablity.

But for some this may be too much to try and this has become a TC slagging forum.

[jhebert]

... this has become a TC slagging forum.

 

 

Indeed, TC has discouraged this behavior...

 

--They have voiced their awareness of the problem. Oh wait, only their US rep has acknowledged our pleas. The parent company has been 100% silent. What do psychologists have to say about uncommunicative parents and the effect of this on their children? Hmmm... might have bearing on a company's marketing and sales effectiveness with its customers, too.

 

--They have posted updated drivers frequently, even beta drivers. Oh wait, there's been only one public update. And the beta is internal. And still buggy.

 

--They have canvassed K24D owners for feedback, valuable input, and asked how they can make things better. Oh wait, they want minutiae that most users do not know how to provide, and have not demonstrated they have a clue as to causes of current issues. Perhaps the position of the moon in relation to Jupiter is involved this week. Better find out, because we're grasping at straws now. This does not impart confidence.

 

--They have communicated frequently, openly, and plainly, engaging their user base as partners, equals in finding and squashing problems. Oh wait, that's just a lie.

 

Yup. No valid reason for angst here.

[c4logic]

Ok but I found a solution to my problems not from Tech support but from searching. People are lazy wanting everything done for them and moaning about when its not done for them. If you educated yourself on how something works you may understand what could go wrong with it ie. computers As I have said I have every sympathy for those who tried and clearly have something beyond their capablity. But for some this may be too much to try and this has become a TC slagging forum.

 

 

You know--good for you. I applaud your do it yourself spirit of Trafalgar attitude. But this is not about being lazy and moaning. You are obscuring a very important, in fact the salient point. Product managers and software engineers plan, design, and implement tools that people use to perform useful tasks. These tasks are carefully thought through, the happy path, and every unhappy path is anticipated, with error handling, error messages, and interfaces that enable the user to interact with these tools.

 

At no point in this process is the slightest effort spent wondering about users who end up with hardware and software failures from their work going out to search all the libraries of the world and interview every other user to try to figure out how they worked around some engineering failure.

 

So you may very well succeed in your endeavors to prevail in spite of breakdowns of a diligent effort on the part of the engineers--but that is a side effect of the engineering unknown unknowns.

 

My point is that these product managers and engineers promised to give you a tool that would give you a way to perform a certain task. You promised to give them money in exchange. But when the tool fails to do what it was promised to do--the agreement is broken. And the fault is on the side of the engineers.

 

To take the position that, oh well, this is the real world, learn to live with it, may be realistic--but it lets those responsible for the failure off the hook--and it often places burdens on innocent users who do not deserve to have to go invest blood sweat and tears learning to live with engineering failures. This is so simple that I cannot understand your narcissistic lording or your prowess in this regard over some poor user who paid his money and wants what he paid for. For you to scold, and blame, and throw accusations of laziness, and moaning around suggests a very real lack of empathy--and an complete lack of comprehension of the moral imperatives involved here.

 

No user should have to jump through hoops to get what they paid for. The product manager, the engineer, and the CEO need to jump through burning hoops, and wear burning tires if necessary, to live up to their commitments.

 

I am sick to death of the alpha geek castigating all the users who have work to do, and must cope with buggy software--because they don't go into the registry, or reverse engineer the software, to get it to work. I suppose you are the sort of chap who performs your own appendectomy?

 

Yes, you can't always wait for others to bail you out. People stranded on the rooftops of New Orleans holding signs saying please help brought this home with deadly earnestness. But back off on the laziness, moaning charges, please? I mean, really! What is your agenda, here?

 

I bow to your alpha geekhood.

 

As for slagging TCE. Do you know about the civil engineering specifications for concrete? When they must produce concrete to high specifications, they carefully control the mix of different sizes of stone aggregates through the use of wire matrices- each matrix has progressively smaller appertures, until, at the lowest level, pea gravel emerges. Everyone who got this thing to work probably is not visiting this thread--those that still have problems have fallen through the matrix--that means that only the most concentrated vitriolic have remained--they are a measure of how far TCE must go to eliminate their remaining issues with this product.

[c4logic]

No disrespect, but the main coder I work with refers to the .net architecture as, and I quote, "The biggest most buggiest piece of {censored} I have ever had to work with. Microsoft couldn't standardize their standards if their lives depended on it." I don't mess with any of that myself, sticking to Linux, but thats his take on it.

 

 

That's a statement of religious faith. Microsoft is not my faith, but lets be circumspect.

 

 

We have our main corporate "enterprize" software written around .net with an mssql backend and it sucks ass. A team of 20 guys, supposedly working with Microsoft, havn't been able to get it to work right in the 6 years they've been working on it. And they don't even have to work with hardware...

 

 

I don't work with .net, but the BizTalk servers are very popular, and .net is fairly widely adopted. My reasons for avoiding microsoft where I can is that they tend to be proprietary, they want to take over the world--and their advocates remind me of Scientologists I have known.

 

 

I'm not excusing TC for anything, but I have to cut them a little slack knowing that Windows (and Mac for that matter) aren't perfect platforms to begin with. While not a massive rollout, I run a network with ~400 windows machines, ~20 Macs, and 100's of graphics devices. I haven't encountered one piece of hardware yet that has worked 100% out of the box... granted we don't use any music hardware/software, but still...

 

 

I have not had your experience--but I see other problems with windows updates on a fairly regular business. Don't see hardware failures as frequently as you do--but don't see much new hardware, either.

 

 

 

We had the Microsoft intellegent keyboard software crash a few of our workstations. We could duplicate the error at will. If it had a memory resident printer manager software running and the memory resident keyboard software would run at the same time, it would crash. Every time. Easily duplicated on several machines. Tossed the keyboard software and everything worked fine. The printer manager software had no issues with any other software so we determined it was the microsoft software and it was banished from our company.

 

 

Yes, peripherals competing for resources has always been a weak area for MS. But I tend to be an idealist. IEEE, ISO, WWWC .net are all in the business of defining interfaces that make interoperability around standards. Most of the problems derive from logic errors in the process of trying to conform to these standards. Ultimately, it is business realities and competition driving to market prematurely that tend to be the root cause of all these failures. Too rushed to design the error handling, too rushed to test, too rushed to implement beta program. We got our first copy of the beta of Win 95, called Chicago, in early winter 93. They just kept coming and coming. Win 95 finally came out the summer of 95--even still, look at the history of patch updates following that release. The early days of my experience were very much shaped by: if it compiles, ship it! But that is definitely, Old School.

[laxano]

hello there! it's my first post there,but i'm following this thread since the begining.
i want to apologise for my english and for the long post first and secondly to give you my personal story with the konnekt8.

i was waiting this audio interface with great anticipation since it was first introduced in the messe show (i think) last year.i knew tc as a quality company and i had dealt with the powercore+virus plug in & with the dynaudio bm6a speakers in the studio. i had also the finalizer and one fx unit (i cant remember the name) and they rocked!

it was a time that i wanted to switch from my pc - samplitude rig to mac - logic and i wanted a firewire interface as the excellent emu1820m wasnt compatible.

month after month i was waiting for the release,till november when finally i bought the konnekt8 ( it cost me 370 euro ~ 460 $ at that time). BTW i think that's a lot of money for a 2in/2out interface.

i can say that the initial drivers made my transition from pc to mac an imperative need. i had enormous problems not only to work with my daw but i couldn't listen to my cds,mp3s without glitches,total muting of the sound. the tc support always anwered my questions but all the solutions that they gave me had nothing to do (obviously) with my problem. to give you a picture,at that time i had bought a spectacular waldorf microwavext keyboard and the midi on the konnekt wasn't working...

all these on a pretty new pc,with dualcore amd cpu and with an integrated viachip firewire port + a dedicated texas instrument pci card...
frankly ,the konnekt seemed to work better with my macbook pro (at least i had no glitches or total lost of sound when i was listening to itunes
i bought logic pro ,i bought the mac versions or ub plug ins (a bit earlier than i wanted ,you can say i was forced to) and i was used to work with the konnekt despite some problems

at that point i want to name them-in no particular order :

-kernel panics,osx not booting with the konnekt connected and switched on during booting
-sometimes konnekt wasn't recognised
-if i played a quicktime or itunes song and then open logic i had no sound,
-if i open an application i had no sound for a sec,
-it seemed to have bigger latency than the setting displayed (this was clear when i di -ed my guitar)
-it seemed to have big problem with the sample rate,as if the sample rate of a file (or a project) was different than the konnekt's i had no sound
-really big cpu load with the tc near utility open (about 15%)
- glitches and overload problems in " light" logic problems
-not the greatest midi synchronization

thanx god some of these were random problems,and despite them i could still use it.

all these since yesterday,when for the first time i noticed that my left speaker was waaaay louder than my right. this for some seconds. when i restarted the konnekt the problem had gone. but it came back (with a vengeance!) today,and since the afternoon,my left speaker seems to be 10-15 db louder than my right :-(

i don't know what to do,i patiently suffered all the problems and waited for an updated driver that it would solve my problems but now it seems that i also have a faulty unit...

ps: i also think that i have this problem with the headphone amp -in a lesser amount
ps2: if you are interested, i could tell you my thoughts regarding the konnekt8 vs emu1820m vs fireface800 as i have worked extensively with them during the last 2 years.
ps3:forgive me for not mentioning the "positive" about the konnekt (oh yeah,it has many) but now i feel really frustrated

[Anderton]

I am sick to death of the alpha geek castigating all the users who have work to do, and must cope with buggy software--because they don't go into the registry, or reverse engineer the software, to get it to work. I suppose you are the sort of chap who performs your own appendectomy?

Now that's a very interesting point, perhaps made unintentionally...but several months back, I wrote an editorial called "The Software Stability Crisis." It basically said that systems are so complex today, and have so many interacting elements, that getting anything to work in a stable manner is becoming increasingly difficult. This wasn't in reference to the K24D, but as a reviewer, a lot of gear passes through my hands and I almost dread installing anything because of concerns it will mess up a system that took me a lot of work to get running properly. If it wasn't for System Restore, I would probably go insane.

So maybe it's getting to the point where just as you'd go to a doctor to get your appendectomy done, we may have gotten to the point where the "average user" is hosed unless something works perfectly, out of the box, and if it doesn't, the only solution is to consult a specialist. We're seeing signs of that already: Companies like Obedia, manufacturers that integrate computers specifically for music and build in software so they can poke around your machine remotely to find out what's wrong, and of course, forums like SSS and this one, where I often turn to find out answers to problems that no one else seems able to solve.

None of what I'm saying should be construed as saying either "TC is blameless because things are so complex: or "TC sucks because they haven't yet delivered a perfect driver." My fear is that really, this has nothing to do with TC, but with an industry that refuses to take its foot off the accelerator. How many times have you read in forums where people wish the next update of a piece of software won't add features, but just work? How many of you have your PCI systems working perfectly and are freaked now everything is going to PCIe? How many haven't bought Vista because your XP system is working and you're afraid of down time? How many haven't switched to Intel Macs because they currently have a stable system and don't want to mess with it?

In the long run, what some of you are experiencing with the Konnekt is, I'm afraid, a symptom, not the disease -- and a sign of more problems and complexities to come in the future.

It wouldn't surprise me if someday, most (if not all) companies that make host software take the Digi route and say "You must use this computer with this interface, or you're on your own...good luck."

Just some random pessimistic thoughts on a beautiful spring day

[Anderton]

ps2: if you are interested, i could tell you my thoughts regarding the konnekt8 vs emu1820m vs fireface800 as i have worked extensively with them during the last 2 years.

 

 

I would indeed be interested, and by the way, your English is fine.

[sonicE]

all these since yesterday,when for the first time i noticed that my left speaker was waaaay louder than my right. this for some seconds. when i restarted the konnekt the problem had gone. but it came back (with a vengeance!) today,and since the afternoon,my left speaker seems to be 10-15 db louder than my right :-( i don't know what to do,i patiently suffered all the problems and waited for an updated driver that it would solve my problems but now it seems that i also have a faulty unit... ps: i also think that i have this problem with the headphone amp -in a lesser amount

 

 

 

laxano, this sounds very similar to the problem that I and (at least!) a few others have had, and we were told by TC support that it's a hardware problem. I took the unit back to my retailer and had it replaced with a new one. You should probably do the same.

[Noise Maker]

I'm really sorry to read that you too have problems with the Konnekt, laxano :( ...

I'm absolutely unable to help you : I'm not used to Macs at all and, worse, (): I still haven't bought "my" Konnekt at this time (it's a good reason, isn't it ? ).

In fact: the more I read this topic, the less I know what to do !

I just got a Belkin FireWire 400/PCMCIA adapter for my laptop (F5U513), and as far as I understand it, the RME Fireface 400 would be a more intelligent choice right now (I don't need as many I/O as on the 800).

Even just browsing on/in RME's home site, and seeing all the infos, technical details, updates, and other downloads and links they give, and more: their users forum, would push me in that direction. Sorry TC !

So, I'm following Craig and, as you propose it:

ps2: if you are interested, i could tell you my thoughts regarding the konnekt8 vs emu1820m vs fireface800 as i have worked extensively with them during the last 2 years.

I'd be really interested in your opinions.

Sorry for my English

Very best regards from France

N.M.

[Noise Maker]

STOP !

Dear Surfer !

If by chance or accident you land here and read these pages, and you'd own a TC Konnekt - 8, 24D, Live, whatyoudcallit, and you find it works nicely for you, please: register (if you aren't registered) and take 5 mn of your lifetime - just 5 mn ! - to explain us which computer configuration/setup you use.

Thank you very much in advance !

Very best Regards from all of us !

N.M.

[tunai]

One more day - No new drivers - K24 doesn't work at all with Sonar. Besides, the fact that no reference to this problems can be found in TC Electronic web site is not only astonishing but also deeply disapointing!!
Without this forum, a lot of people could have screwed buying this product.
This problem goes beyond a bad driver in a RI, and this is for me a clear case of commercial disloyalty.
A company that find defects in one product must warn its customers and cannot attempt to sell it until those problems are solved (and, obviously, the posibility of launching new versions must be dismissed until those problems are dealt with).
Any user that is thinking of buying any kind of tC stuff should bear in mind from this moment on what can be expected if problems arise. Without any doubt, TC isn´t an ethically trustwothy company and its way to deal with this situation really sucks!!!
All of us, as defrauded clients, should comment on this experience in all related forums to prevent TC from harming more users. As far as I'm concerned, I will inmediately start doing it.

[JDA]

all these since yesterday,when for the first time i noticed that my left speaker was waaaay louder than my right. this for some seconds. when i restarted the konnekt the problem had gone. but it came back (with a vengeance!) today,and since the afternoon,my left speaker seems to be 10-15 db louder than my right :-( i don't know what to do,i patiently suffered all the problems and waited for an updated driver that it would solve my problems but now it seems that i also have a faulty unit... ps: i also think that i have this problem with the headphone amp -in a lesser amount laxano, this sounds very similar to the problem that I and (at least!) a few others have had, and we were told by TC support that it's a hardware problem. I took the unit back to my retailer and had it replaced with a new one. You should probably do the same.

 

 

I had the same type problem with the K24D and had the retailer replace it for me. I give Sweetwater and TCE both a thumbs up on how they handled it. Of course, I'm not as happy about the delay wiith the new drivers.

 

One thing that makes me nervous about the K24D besides the drivers is the faulty hardware that's been mentioned. I'd be curious to know what the actual fault was with the units? My first thought on mine was a bad/cold solder joint, but I really don't know for sure. The one year warranty is not enough on the K24D in my opinion and the RME products have a 2 year warranty.

 

Regards, JD...

[c4logic]

My fear is that really, this has nothing to do with TC, but with an industry that refuses to take its foot off the accelerator. How many times have you read in forums where people wish the next update of a piece of software won't add features, but just work? How many of you have your PCI systems working perfectly and are freaked now everything is going to PCIe? How many haven't bought Vista because your XP system is working and you're afraid of down time? How many haven't switched to Intel Macs because they currently have a stable system and don't want to mess with it?

This is exactly why I have been very skeptical of recording audio on pc systems for all these years. That is why I continued to stick with dedicated systems from guys like Korg. But based on everything I read--and no actual experience--it seemed like the firewire interface had finally matured to the point where it was being marketed as a commodity--with someone like TC Electronic getting into the game with no previous audio interface experience--and creating a value add proposition through features like Fabric C and Fabric R, leveraging their tremendous expertise in the pro market for effects. Which frankly, sounds very appealing.

The promise of extending audio recording to the pc platform is SO seductive, for all the obvious reasons, that desire simply overwhelms prudence. You want it to work, you need it to work, so you are willing to take on a certain level of risk. But pc platforms are a generalized computing environment, originally designed exclusively for the manipulation of the ascii character set, and extended, and extended, and extended far, far beyond the system originally conceived of by the engineers. No wonder real time control applications are rickety.

I used to work with one of the inventors of neural net technology. He was one of the father's of AI. He is in his 80's now. He once developed real time adaptive systems to assist the flight yoke of jet airplanes, or the extrusion managers of commercial steel furnaces, or the SAC monitors that watch for incoming ICBM's. Some of his software designs worked continuously for SAC for over 20 years. He and I used to chew the fat about the early days of computer science, and i once asked him what those guys would say if you could go back in a time machine and try to tell them about an 'operating system'. He said they would look at you and blink and would have no idea what the hell you were talking about.

What is really needed is a hardware platform, with an 'operating system', or rather, a software interface, that is heavily optimized around the unique requirements of audio, video, and real time control monitors that support intensive concurrency. It almost strikes me as ridiculous to expect that the machine I use for word processing and email is expected to record multi-track audio. And yet--the promise of that is sooo seductive. It's a near fatal attraction. And with the convergence of multi-media and pc's--the pc seems like such an unlikely system to take on the challenge. Especially running Windows.

[Dtmodttl]

Yes and yes, to c4logic and Anderton. Developments are marketing--and ultimately revenue---driven. It's not about quality or usability, especially at the price points we're concerned with in this thread.

 

But we have interoperability! Do you remember the old Fairlight systems or Synclavier? Now, both of you are probably more knowledgeable than I am in the technical aspects, but were these systems not proprietary? You were locked into Fairlight and Synclavier! And what happened when something went wrong?

 

These days, you can mix and match equipment from a variety of manufacturers---and do it on the cheap. The Konnekt 8 is US$299 last time I checked, with, to quote you roughly, Craig, "a preamp sound you'd kill for in the 1970s". That's very good preamps for a measily $299! And if TC's metal box doesn't work, I can get rid of it. Overall, the loss would be small. The rest of my equipment and studio intact, all I would need to do is buy another firewire box. That's fantatsic!

 

How many musicians haven't upgraded to Vista? A lot, and I sure haven't. But, my point is also, so what? Why the need to be on the edge of the technology curve? What we already have with stable versions of XP and Cubase SX is very, very good in the grander scheme of things.

 

The sore point for me, and probably all of us, is that music recording isn't one of the bigger drivers in the technology curve push. It's an important driver, to be sure, but not one of the big ones. We're basically relegated to the back pages of the Microsoft Knowledgebase.

 

The edge of the technology curve isn't designed for people like us, but what we do have on our side of it is damn good, I think.

 

Dt

[Dtmodttl]

Working fine:

- Konnekt 8 (with beta drivers from their website)
- Dell Inspiron 1705 with Core2Duo
- Konnekt via onboard Ricoh firewire chip (4 pin to the 6 pin on the Konnekt)
- Windows XP, SP2 and all other updates
- Cubase SX3, all updates installed
- SIIG Expresscard FW 800/400
- Lacie FW 800 drive to expresscard
- Acomdata FW 400 drive to expresscard
- M-Audio Oxygen v2 via midi connection to Konnekt
- Kawai MP4 keyboard (coming soon)

Sure, Cubase crashes once in a while---once in a blue moon. Also, once in a blue moon the audio is garbled, and I have to turn the Konnekt off and restart Cubase. Really, these are problems I think I could encounter with any setup. Nothing I can definitely blame the Konnekt for. Although, please note that I am not pushing my system to its limit, which is a fairly far off limit for me. Nonetheless---no systematic dropouts, no timing issues that I've encountered (in my non-heavy midi usage). Good sound quality by my musician's ear.

The problems with the Konnekt now (with the exception of the Cakewalk issue) I believe are with the 24D (not 8), and it's built in effects.

Very best Regards from all of us ! N.M.

[stemast]

Very best Regards from all of us ! N.M.

 

 

Already posted, a few days ago.

24D is working flawlessly since day 1:

 

My set up is: Windows XP SP2, 2g Ram, Core Duo 6600, Asus P5 Deluxe (firewire TI chipset), 250g internal disc, 300 external disc-USB, Boss DR-880 (usb midi connection, line connection to 24D and s/pdif), Korg Microx (usb midi connection, line connection to 24D), Boss BR-600 (line connection to 24D), Fender Stratocaster SE, Ibanez (acoustic guitar), MusicMan (bass guitar).