Alesis io26 and io14 Interfaces

[Anderton]

Well for those of you who have been following the Konnekt 24D thread, this "speed-up" thing has been a big issue with Sonar and now I'm finding the same issue with the io26. Everything will seem to be fine for a while, and then out of nowhere, the tempo speeds up and the audio sounds metallic and breaks up. This is something I don't experience with either the E-Mu or SCOPE PCI-based systems I use, so I suspect it's something that the K24D and the io26 have in common, or something they both have the reacts in the same way to Sonar.

Hmmm...I'll think I'll use Cubase for a while and see if the problem surfaces with that.

[instred]

Thats the problem I had when the firewire light lit up. the unit would just go nuts on me.
I'm more mad that Alesis said it was tested with Sonar 4 Sonar 5 and Sonar 6.
Really?????

The tech only gave very geniric advice and didn't believe me when I was telling him the problems. $400.00 down the drain?
Hey Jim from Alesi if you're listening how about sending me your active monitors back instead. At least I know they work and I work be out $400.00!

Venting customer!!!!!!

Ed



Ed

[Anderton]

Well, at this point I'm finding the Sonar/io26 combination not suitable for getting actual work done. It appears that the reason why it seemed to work well is because if I just record and play back, thing work okay. But if I start cutting, pasting, creating gaps, and moving things around, things get into trouble.

The other interesting thing is that if I close out of Sonar, it appears to close, but doesn't really: I need to go into Task Manager and close the program manually.

Are other Sonarians experiencing similar symptoms, or am I the only one?

[Anderton]

Thats the problem I had when the firewire light lit up. the unit would just go nuts on me. I'm more mad that Alesis said it was tested with Sonar 4 Sonar 5 and Sonar 6. Really?????

 

 

They may very well have...but not with the same chip set/motherboard/graphics card etc. setup. What kind of system are you running?

 

I've heard about weird problems with Matrox dual and triple head cards, maybe I should try putting it in single monitor mode and see what happens.

[Anderton]

I just got PM'ed from someone who's using the io26 with Sonar 4 at 64 samples. I'm trying to get some more information about this. He also said that operation under WDM was not very good.

I think it's worth stressing for now that the io26 has worked incredibly well with all flavors of Cubase. The only problem I have is with Sonar 6. I'll also try the io26 with Acid, Vegas, and other Sony software, as well as whatever else I have to see what works best with it.

For now, I'd say if you're a Sonar 6 user, make sure you test the io26 with your system before you commit. And if it DOES work, post what kind of system and settings you're using! Conversely, if any Cubase users are having problems, I'd like to know about that too.

[instred]

They may very well have...but not with the same chip set/motherboard/graphics card etc. setup. What kind of system are you running? I've heard about weird problems with Matrox dual and triple head cards, maybe I should try putting it in single monitor mode and see what happens.

I have An Asus deluxe socket AM2 motherboard with TI firewire with
a 4600+ dual core 65 watt processor. My old Edirol USB UA-25 works fine. I tried a Firewire hard drive and it works fine on the firewire port, even running Sonar 6 for a test with the UA-25. The ASIO drives would do exactly as you have happen to you. I would have to go to task manager to shut down the system. It even caused my computer to shut down and re-boot:o

That is why I'm having a hard time saying they tested with Sonar.
I also had it happen in Cakewalk Project 5 which I use alot.
My hope that the mess is sorted out quickly, which I mean 2 months top from last month. Mackie still has 2.0 something beta drives from last July. If they can't get it fixed I'm entitled for a refund or interest payments for non usage.
This BS that to use you can't hold us responisble yada yada yada is BS.

I was a loyal Alesis customer. I posted before, have QS8 and QS6, Nano-compressor, Active monitor, but this is my last Alesis purchase. To market a product that does not work is not right!!!!!

[Anderton]

But...it's not on my music computer. On a hunch, I installed the io26 on my Rain laptop, which uses a 1.73GHz Pentium-M with 1GB of RAM - not in the same league as my dual core Athlon, but it works like a champ. No problems at 64 samples, record and playback, all day long.

So, what this tells me is that there is some particular combination of computer, Sonar, and interface that causes real problems regarding latency.

Now that I know that Sonar and the io26 can work superbly together, I'm going to start digging into the innards of my music computer and see what I can find. Stay tuned! If I can fix the "mystery Mac Firewire whine" with the Onyx 400F, and the "mystery mic preamp hiss" with the Presonus Inspire, maybe I can nail this one down too Wish me luck!

Instred, what graphics card are you using?

[SonnyBoy]

Craig, thank you very much indeed for your incredibly valuable contribution. You seem to be testing almost every single possible hardware/software configuration, so I was wondering if you'd find some time, one of these days, to test the io/26 with Tracktion2 on a PowerPC Mac. Mine is an iBook running Panther but I'm upgrading to Tiger next week, since it's now official, Alesis only support Tiger, contrary to what they stated in their manuals AND online tech support.
The problem with Tracktion, as I've already said in one of my previous posts here, is that it's not on the list of "tested" (whatever that means...) DAWS on Alesis' web page. Again, I can only hope that they will do it someday, as an increasing number of music-oriented people are using Tracktion nowadays, mostly because of its amazingly user-friendly display (and also for its price, I suppose). Of course, I'll keep you informed whether my io/26 works with Tiger on my PPC iBook, and I'll also try it with Cubase LE.

[Anderton]

Well, here's what I tried:

 

* Downloaded new drivers for the Matrox P650

* Added the lines to the SYSTEM.INI file recommended in the Sonar help files (I know, I should have done that first, but it talked about modifying lines that were already there, and I instead added a whole new section)

* Tried the Firewire port on my E-Mu board instead of the TI chip set board I normally use

* Turned down hardware graphics acceleration

* Turned off write combining

* Tried multiprocessor support on and off

* Tried a different option for the playback master, as recording seemed to work okay

 

Bottom line: it still does the speed up thing/bad audio, but the laptop still works perfectly. Go figure.

[Anderton]

One more thing: I also tried installing hotfix 904412, as recommended on the Cakewalk forums. Not sure if there's cause and effect, but 192 samples seems more stable. Still no luck with 128 or lower latencies that work with Cubase.

[Anderton]

Well, the results here are pretty much the same as Cubase: No problem with 64 samples using Acid Pro, Vegas, and Sound Forge.

This is getting rather frustrating, but it seems the signs are pointing to something related to Sonar as everything else works fine. But that of course doesn't explain why Sonar works fine at 64 samples with my laptop...

Surely there is some genius out there who has a solution! AMD Optimizer fix, maybe?

Well, that's enough for today. I picked up the flu on the way back from Frankfurt and have a fever, so I gotta go.

[coolrahool]

Just wanted to post the response i received from Alesis tech support in regards to my io 14 and the ckicks and random audio drop-outs by the way Jim i hope that alesis knows that it' is not just MAC's that are experiencing this problem but PC's too Vilo had the same issue with his PC (i use an AMD x64 w/XPsp2/Igb ram/asus MB/on-board fw port)...

Computer recording problems (hum, dropouts, etc.) can generally be diagnosed and solved in one of the following ways:


1) The power from your computer may be marginally insufficient to guarantee stable performance. Use the included AC adapter whenever issues like dropouts are being experienced.

2) If your computer has a mini Firewire jack, be suspicious of your four-to-six pin Firewire cable. Many poorly constructed cables cause problems. Try using a respected, brand-name cable. Also consider using a six-pin Firewire card that is 400 bus type (since the newer 800 is not supported) to bypass the built-in firewire connection altogether. Some good brands we have encountered are Belkin and also Adaptec.

Also I would highly recommend disabling your 1394 Net Adaptor as this can cause driver installation issues. This can be done by:

Hold the Windows key and the Pause Break key down at the same time. This will open up the System properties box. Then go to the Hardware tab and select Device Manager. Click on the + sign next to the Network Adaptor option. Then right click on the 1394 Net Adaptor option and choose disable. Then I would reinstall the latest drivers.



Also are you running the latest drivers from Microsoft? This can be verified by going to the “Start” menu, choose “Control Panel” and then “Add or Remove Programs.”



Look for the following items in the list:



Microsoft .NET Framework 1.1 (or later)



Windows Installer 3.1 (or later)



If one or both of these items does not appear, you must go to www.WindowsUpdate.com for the drivers to be properly detected.





Also I would recommend installing this firewire fix from Microsoft if you have SP2:





http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=CA0F2007-18B5-4112-8BD6-8BF4BD3130B9&displaylang=en





Best Regards,

Justin Baro



Alesis Technical Support

200 Scenic View Drive

Ste.201

Cumberland, RI 02864

401-658-5760

[irchs]

Hello,

 

Just a post to highlight the bigbluelounge thread on the bugs with the Alesis IO14 and 26.

 

http://bigbluelounge.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=35587&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=105

 

Jan

[dr_bell]

SonnyBoy:

I feel your pain re: Tracktion. It's a great little DAW--I really value the one screen interface and the creative possibilities enabled by the rack filters. I wish that it would get more attention as well. But the io14 doesn't work in anything else for me, so Tracktion is clearly not the problem.

[jimnorman]

Craig,

We definitely tested Sonar with the IO 14/26 during development. Basically we found that the WDM support with Sonar doesn't work very well compared to ASIO. We did contact Cakewalk about this and their recommendation was to advise customers to use ASIO instead of WDM for the audio driver.

Just for my own sanity check to tried both Sonar 4 and 6 Producer yesterday on my 3 year old Dell with 1 gig of RAM. Using ASIO settings allowed me to record multiple tracks with the IO 26 at 128 samples. There were no artifacts or any other problems. I switched to WDM and had a host of issues. Our recommendation still stands to use ASIO with Sonar.

Why one computer works better than another is a good question. It's near impossible to test for every computer on the market with various configurations. If someone is having problems it's helpful for us to get the documentation through our product support department and investigate the issue.

Thanks,

Jim

[Vibroluxman]

I tried it, and it worked fine. Are you remembering to set the Left and Right locators to encompass the section you want to export?

I swear I did but I'm planning on trying again later this week. I've got 4 shows that I'm playing in over the next three days so I'm a little swamped. Good luck with the flu. I have to say I'm really enjoying the Pro Reviews. It's nice to see the actual designers of the product talk with customers. Very refreshing to see this in depth study of the product instead of just a glowing review without any substance.

[instred]

Hi Jim,
Glad you are here. I'm very frustrated.
Did you test the unit on sonar 6.2.1
I mean not just recording, but afterward. Starting ,Stopping playback, trying to edit audio. That is when most of are problems come to live.

If you mean test Sonar 4-6 by just recording that is not enough. Even craig was able to record at first.

Ed

[Anderton]

We definitely tested Sonar with the IO 14/26 during development.

 

 

I believe it, given that I get great performance with Sonar on a non-Athlon machine.

 

 

Basically we found that the WDM support with Sonar doesn't work very well compared to ASIO. We did contact Cakewalk about this and their recommendation was to advise customers to use ASIO instead of WDM for the audio driver.

 

 

You're not alone in this. All the interfaces I've tested with WDM "work," as does the io26, but ASIO always gives better performance.

 

 

Why one computer works better than another is a good question. It's near impossible to test for every computer on the market with various configurations. If someone is having problems it's helpful for us to get the documentation through our product support department and investigate the issue.

 

 

I'll contact support and give them the results of my research. So far, it seems the main (maybe only?) issues related to Windows involve Sonar and/or AMD machines.

 

Also Jim thanks for your contribution here! It's very helpful. By and large people understand that drivers for just about everything have "teething problems," and the fact that the io26 is working so well with so many programs is a good sign. Hopefully the stragglers can be made to work as well.

[Anderton]

Hi Jim, Glad you are here. I'm very frustrated. Did you test the unit on sonar 6.2.1 I mean not just recording, but afterward. Starting ,Stopping playback, trying to edit audio. That is when most of are problems come to live. If you mean test Sonar 4-6 by just recording that is not enough. Even craig was able to record at first.

 

 

Yes, recording works fine even with the "problem" computer. It's as you say - once you start playback and editing is when things fall apart. But you have an AMD-based computer as well, right? I'm beginning to think that's the common denominator.

[dr_bell]

Alesis support would now like me to spend more of my valuable free time testing a pre-release version of their drivers. Should I send them a bill or what?

[instred]

Yes I have an Athlon 64 4600 X2 machine.
But Athlon 2.0 and above on Alesis Site.
Are they going to change this like the mac, Opps 10.3 not supported it was a typo? Sorry nope Athlons not supported.
I'm actually surprised they agreed to a pro reiew test with you Crag.
My brother-in-law is in programing and when he say what was happening he just shook his head in disbelief. "What quality control does that company have" is what he said.
Oh well live and learn.

Ed

[instred]

Funny thing is my system is a clean system no anti virus, only 23 processes on start-up. So I didn't like the tech support answer either that it might on my end.

[Anderton]

Yes I have an Athlon 64 4600 X2 machine. But Athlon 2.0 and above on Alesis Site. Are they going to change this like the mac, Opps 10.3 not supported it was a typo? Sorry nope Athlons not supported. I'm actually surprised they agreed to a pro reiew test with you Crag. My brother-in-law is in programing and when he say what was happening he just shook his head in disbelief. "What quality control does that company have" is what he said. Oh well live and learn. Ed

With a Pro Review, no one knows how it's going to turn out: The reviewer, the forumites, or the manufacturer. Alesis is not afraid of finding out if there are problems because it's better to know about them and fix them than not to know they exist. In the TC Konnekt 24D Pro Review, there have been a lot of really savage posts. I expected TC to be very upset but from their viewpoint, it's two years of testing on every possible system around the world compressed into six months And in large part because of all the points brought up in the Pro Review, they truly believe the next drivers will do the job. Or the Sonar 5 review: I found a bug while doing the review, Cakewalk was able to replicate it, and they had a fix in place before the Pro Review was done. Who knows how long it would have taken to find that bug without the Pro Review?

I believe that most companies want nothing more than to take care of customers. Alesis is the kind of company that is willing to expose itself to its customers in something like a Pro Review, and take the complaints as well as the compliments (and if you look through this thread, there have been many compliments). After all, you learn much more from the complaints than the compliments! Alesis has a winning product here, and it makes sense they would want to continue to tweak it.

If I hadn't tried Sonar on my X2 machine, I would have thought this interface was perfect: It's priced right, sounds good, has tons of connectivity, and is extremely stable at 64 samples with just about everything I've thrown at it -- except Sonar on X2. Now, if that's all you have and you just spent $400 on an interface, yeah, it's very upsetting, to say the least.

At this point, it comes down to a) whether one thinks an update is possible that fixes this problem, and b) whether you have faith that Alesis will fix it.

Regarding a), it probably is possible. TC's Konnekt 24D has a similar problem and is also DICE II-based, and they say a new driver is finished and will be released as soon as the installer is complete (apparently, the installer itself was responsible for some of the problems too). But fixing it required a huge amount of work -- essentially a complete re-write of the drivers for both Windows and Mac.

Regarding b), all we can do is look at history and if you look at what happened with the Alesis Fusion, it's very encouraging. Fusion was released prematurely and had problems, but in fairly short order not only were the bugs addressed, but Alesis made additional presets and sounds available for free. The same thing happened with the Alesis Ion -- some initial problems, but fixes and "goodies" appeared shortly thereafter. And to be fair, the io26 works fabulously with lots of programs on lots of platforms, so it's obvious they know how to write drivers; they just don't know how to write perfect drivers that work with all systems upon the initial release...like any other software company, as far as I can tell.

I will contact support and advise them that people are having problems with Athlon X2 systems. Hopefully they'll be able to test it and come up with a fix. I wouldn't expect it immediately, though, so if you really can't wait you should probably consider returning your unit...but bear in mind that lots of other interfaces have issues that may or may not impact you. Try before you buy!

Stay tuned...

[dr_bell]

This is really grading on a curve, here. All of us who are having problems are getting screwed by a company that's perfectly willing to accept that a certain number of people are going to sit around and waste hours and hours fiddling with this stupid crap while they put lower and lower numbers in their spreadsheets for R&D.

[instred]

Actually, my unit is back at Alesis because the Firewire light would go off and on. So I thought that was the only problem with it. They have it for a month now. So I can't even try it on another computer. Yes it is frustrating because I didn't get any use out of it and now I'm waiting for it back to use it as a door-stop. I'm more upset at the tech support guy that was really you're having problems with the unit?
Geez how about some honesty like Billy Joel said.