TC Electronic Konnekt 24D - The Next Generation

[white2833]

Yup, the current Mac driver is pretty much useless.

 

 

Hmm...I've had mine for a few weeks now, using Logic Express 7, and yeah, I wish it had better integration....but I find it to be VERY quiet, great S/N ratio, and even as an audio device for iTunes, etc it's working great. Once in a while the firewire locks up...but I let my mac go to sleep after an hour of inactivity anyway, so when I'm done working, I shut off the TC. All in all, I'm not dissatisfied.

 

I look fwd to better drivers too, but for now I'm not unhappy.

 

Cheers/

 

Lance

[Anderton]

 

Am I the only one to find the "Meta Intuitive Navigation Technology" so unusable ??

 

 

Mais ce n'est pas difficile!!

 

You can ignore the graphic interface completely if you want. For example, with Fabrik R, click on the R and two numerical fields show up underneath: Predelay and Decay. You can just click on these and adjust them as you would standard numeric values in plug-ins.

 

If you click on M, the two modulation parameters show up as numericals.

 

If you click on D, you can adjust the level of dry signal, early reflections, and amount of reverb.

 

Click on the C control, and you can basically adjust the tonality.

 

What's more, as you adjust the numericals and watch the "hockey pucks" move around, you can learn the correlation between standard numeric values and the position of the puck. Do that long enough, and you'll end up dragging the puck so you can change several parameters at once (the core of the MINT concept) instead of having to adjust multiple numericals individually.

[Anderton]

But this whole process could have been organized from day one, using this venue of pro reviews to manage a wide scale beta test. They could have identified issues in the field much sooner, and gotten the fixes out much sooner--had they done so. All they had to do was say, at the outset--we have tested the platform with the following hardware and software configurations--so we are going to have a period of post release beta feedback from the field for the next 60 days to tweak and fix bugs. If they had done that, set expectations appropriately, from the start, they could have tuned this product a whole lot sooner. But it is almost as if they got blindsided by the public response of this forum. Ultimately, I think this review thread has yielded some very positive outcomes--although their are clearly still some issues--I am now convinced that TCE is making a good faith effort to produce a functional platform--it just did not have to be so painful for everyone involved.

Again, let me emphasize that I do not speak for TC. But I have opinions (don't I always!).

I think a lot of the problem is that as far as I know, this is the first interface that TC has done. That's a very different world than having a closed system like a System 6000 where they get to call all the shots, hardware and software.

So they test the thing with a bunch of systems and a bunch of software -- not all systems, not all software -- and it works, so they figure it's okay. Then it gets out into the real world: The ugly world of permutations and combinations.

Clearly, TC has learned something from all this because they're now involving the user community in the new update. They've made it a public beta, Mike has posted the direct link for reporting problems, and they've already produced another beta. As the old saying goes, talk is cheap; their actions show that they are committed to making this work. There's a saying in English, "better late than never."

As I mentioned earlier, two of the most stable pieces of software I own are Ableton Live and Propellerhead Reason, and I don't think it's a coincidence that both do extensive public betas. The situation for TC is different, though, because there's hardware involved.

I'm not sure what the answer is. I'm sure many of you have used TC products; there's no question they have very smart engineers and product managers. There's also no question that with a company the size of TC, every product has to count and every product has to be good. They're not like some giant multinational corporation that can just write off several million dollars and say "oh well." I also think they had the misfortunate of bad timing, stepping into a changing world of MacIntels and Vista. I'd be willing to bet that if the K24D had come out two years ago, when the computer world was simpler, we wouldn't have had to deal with these issues.

Anyway, I do feel things are going in the right direction and maybe this thread did have something to do with it...but maybe not as much as you might think. Dissatisfied customers have a way of making their feelings known The difference is that without the focus of this Pro Review thread, any comments would have been spread all over the web, flowed into TC tech support, and so forth. I'm sure it must have been painful from time to time for TC to read these comments, but I'm also sure that it was helpful to get this kind of feedback, and very helpful to have someone as well liked as Mike having the opportunity to deal with customers directly.

We are all learning how to do our jobs better. Some might ask why Pro Reviews weren't happening in 2000, when I first proposed the idea, and why did it take until 2005 for them to happen? Ah...but that's another story, for another time

[Anderton]

4-6 months to wait for Vista Drivers is unacceptable on every level.

 

 

For a dose of reality about Vista, click here.

[Harry McBrowny]

Hmm...I've had mine for a few weeks now, using Logic Express 7, and yeah, I wish it had better integration....but I find it to be VERY quiet, great S/N ratio, and even as an audio device for iTunes, etc it's working great. Once in a while the firewire locks up...but I let my mac go to sleep after an hour of inactivity anyway, so when I'm done working, I shut off the TC. All in all, I'm not dissatisfied. I look fwd to better drivers too, but for now I'm not unhappy. Cheers/ Lance

 

 

 

I am working with intel mac too and I have no problems. Almost everything is running as expected. So I agree with white2833, I am waiting for better drivers, but I have full useful 24D (except assimilator) and the sound is great.

[kevin.fr]

Mais ce n'est pas difficile!! You can ignore the graphic interface completely if you want. For example, with Fabrik R, click on the R and two numerical fields show up underneath: Predelay and Decay. You can just click on these and adjust them as you would standard numeric values in plug-ins. If you click on M, the two modulation parameters show up as numericals. If you click on D, you can adjust the level of dry signal, early reflections, and amount of reverb. Click on the C control, and you can basically adjust the tonality. What's more, as you adjust the numericals and watch the "hockey pucks" move around, you can learn the correlation between standard numeric values and the position of the puck. Do that long enough, and you'll end up dragging the puck so you can change several parameters at once (the core of the MINT concept) instead of having to adjust multiple numericals individually.

 

 

Thanks for your councils.

As you say when I'll have used MINT enough, it'll be easier for me. Whithout animosity, I'm just waiting for a better MAC integration to use it for hours and hours.

[kevin.fr]

(re)Hello !

Now, I've another question.

 

Has anybody ever used fabrik effects in a live configuration ? I mean, do you think it is possible to plug the K24D on insert (for Fbrk C) or on auxiliary (for Fbrk R) on a mixing desk ??

 

Thank you

 

Kevin

[locojohn]

(re)Hello ! Has anybody ever used fabrik effects in a live configuration ? I mean, do you think it is possible to plug the K24D on insert (for Fbrk C) or on auxiliary (for Fbrk R) on a mixing desk ??

 

 

hello kevin,

 

not sure about auxiliary/mixing desk. i only tried to use fabrik c on the master in ableton live 6.0.5 as a limiter and reverb on the post insert channel, both as vst effects. both worked. not without the glitches though.. occasionally, fabrik c produces awful sounds when either clipping occurs or the signal is too hot, while mixing several audio channels together, for some reason.. the fabrik r works pretty well... however, i am a big fond of big reverb tails, and as far as i figured it only lets us use 20 ms reverb tails max.. is it a hardware limitation? Mike, is it possible to increase the possibilities for longer hall reverb tails in the future? (>20ms) is it a hardware or a software limitation?

 

i am sure many would appreciate the possibility to have longer tails.

 

best wishes,

 

andrejs

 

p.s. Mike, i sent you another PM.

[Mike Martin]

Andrejs -
Fabrik R supports a reverb time of up to 20 twenty seconds (not ms, but seconds). Simply move the R icon all the way to the right. Do you need longer than that?

[locojohn]

Andrejs - Fabrik R supports a reverb time of up to 20 twenty seconds (not ms, but seconds). Simply move the R icon all the way to the right. Do you need longer than that?

 

 

sorry, yes - seconds ! i love longer tails! i wish there was one up to 60 seconds! i think this is great for use in live performances! at least, i do use software hall reverbs with longer wet signals all the time.. is it the software or the hardware limitation at the moment?

 

anyone else in my boat?

 

-andrejs

[mqbernardo]

Hi!

just wonder if someone else has a Toshiba Satellite where the 1.20 drivers are producing a lot of metalic noise after a while in use? Is it just me? Is it Ableton Live?

Mike - if your listening - do you know if TC are handling this one?

Thans in advance.

Miguel

[10101]

Craig, will the Konnekt Live will be covered in this thread?

[Anderton]

Craig, will the Konnekt Live will be covered in this thread?

 

 

There are no plans to cover the Konnekt Live in this thread. As a separate product, it would need to have its own review.

[Dr. Gruv]

Hmm...I've had mine for a few weeks now, using Logic Express 7, and yeah, I wish it had better integration....but I find it to be VERY quiet, great S/N ratio, and even as an audio device for iTunes, etc it's working great. Once in a while the firewire locks up...but I let my mac go to sleep after an hour of inactivity anyway, so when I'm done working, I shut off the TC. All in all, I'm not dissatisfied. I look fwd to better drivers too, but for now I'm not unhappy. Cheers/ Lance

 

 

what machine do you have? os?

[pocketcalc]

hi, Craig, Mike and everyone

I'm back to ask Mike about linux support again

so, this was posted on may 1st in the ffado (freebob's new name) project home page:

"Work-in-progress:

* TC Electronic are interested (regarding the Konnekt devices) but there are no specific details yet."

Mike,

Is TCE really going to provide the necessary specifications and hardware so the ffado team can support the konnekt devices? If yes, when is this going to happen?

Is there any TCE e-mail address where I can send my whishes for this linux support to come true?

thanks.

P.S.

this weekend my konnekt was used as a standalone preamp with digital outs via spdif into a digi001 and it worked great!

[vick]

Hello Mike and all,

I did not want to bug the forum with accessibility problems up until now, but now that the drivers are getting more stable, I feel that I need to at least mention that. Clicking behavior with TC Control Panel opened also prompted me to write this message as well.

I have also noticed that whenever you open TC Control Panel, the 3D features of my NVidea card get turned on and the fan starts rotating faster.

While TC Panel has shortcut keys built-in, the whole interface is drawn with bitmaps which presents huge accessibility problems for those who cannot see the screen. Essentially, there is no real text written to the video drivers and thus screen reading software (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screen_reader) that blind people use to interact with the computer, cannot provide any speech feedback.

Being blind myself, I have to rely on sighted people to even perform firmware update. Thanks God, TC plug-ins are provided as VST version as well because at least I can play around with automated parameters and such.

I just want software engineers and mainstream public at least to be aware of these problems and point them out to the teams inside your companies.

How would you feel if you had to rely on someone to drive your own car?

[scadh]

Hello Mike & Craig,

First of all, great piece in the May Keyboard Mag, Craig! Useful stuff. I also loved the articles about audio in Vista and Linux.

Mike, per your request, a few thoughts on the new driver and what's to come:

I uninstalled my previous version powered off the Konnekt prior to installation of the new driver. Installation seemed to go fine, ending with a message saying something to the effect of "Restart any time after this installation is complete". I shut down the computer, powered the Konnekt back on, and restarted the computer.

I got no Firewire connectivity, the blue light never even flashed. However, the Found New Hardware Wizard popped up and wanted to install drivers. I didn't expect that would be necessary so I canceled and repeated the whole process several times. It never worked. Finally, I went ahead and let the Wizard search for a driver and it immediately found TC Near and TC Near MIDI, both of which it installed. The blue Firewire Light of Joy lit up and the unit has been operating well ever since.

However, even though the driver has now been installed via the executable and via the Hardware Wizard, I still get the Found New Hardware Wizard popup every single time I start up the computer. It's not a show-stopper but it's annoying. Any idea why the installation didn't work right off the bat and forced me to go through the OS Wizard? I'd be happy to uninstall and start over if it would make that popup go away. I'm running XP/SP2 for now.

I still get more pops and clicks than I want, especially when playing a large patch through a software instrument (i.e. Sampletekk White Grand through Kontakt 2). But on the whole, the newest driver is far and away the best one yet. Performance in Sonar 6.2 is pretty good, and in Kontakt 2 standalone it's excellent. I was about 1 nanometer from returning my Konnekt a couple months back; I'm glad now that I didn't. I *do* sort of wish I had saved up for a 24D instead of the 8, though.

Thanks!

[Really!]

Hello Mike and all, I just want software engineers and mainstream public at least to be aware of these problems and point them out to the teams inside your companies. How would you feel if you had to rely on someone to drive your own car?

 

 

Here is +1 in support of vick!

 

Also, Mike are there any plans for TC to add their own forum? Seems like today almost all vendors have one ...

 

Really!

[scadh]

Vista development is already in progress. I do not have an ETA at this time. Obviously XP and the current Mac driver is the priority and Vista will be next.

 

 

Hi Mike,

 

Do you know if the Vista driver will be Wave RT? Or will it simply be repurposed Vista-compatible ASIO/WDM drivers?

 

Thanks!

[Anderton]

I just want software engineers and mainstream public at least to be aware of these problems and point them out to the teams inside your companies.

 

 

Point extremely well taken, especially given the number of blind musicians. Thanks for bringing this subject to our attention...the more attention it gets, the more likely that software companies will take these issues into account.

[Mike Martin]

Hello everyone,
I don't have time to comment on all the new posts right now (some excellent ones BTW). I just wanted to pass along something that helped another user that may help some PC users that are still experiencing problems.

I was on the phone with a user that was having some dropouts. The blinking DAW icon in the Konnekt Control Panel was a clear indication that there was a conflict somewhere. He told me that he had disabled his wireless device already.

I later found out that with his laptop, there was not a physical on/off switch for his wireless. He turned it off using the wireless configuration software that his laptop has in Windows.

I had him reboot and enter his computer's BIOS and disable the wireless device there and everything worked perfectly. So its clear that some hardware can cause a conflict but disabling the hardware in Windows may not be enough. Some of the Toshiba users may want to give this a try and disable any hardware and see if that helps.

I've got a busy day ahead but I'm sure I"ll be on the forums more tomorrow.

-Mike

[locojohn]

Hello everyone, I had him reboot and enter his computer's BIOS and disable the wireless device there and everything worked perfectly. So its clear that some hardware can cause a conflict but disabling the hardware in Windows may not be enough. Some of the Toshiba users may want to give this a try and disable any hardware and see if that helps. -Mike

 

 

i tried to disable all devices but display, firewire adapter and tc near. i also killed all startup programs. i also disabled network over firewire. i even tried to disable network in bios, as there is an option.. and i am still getting drop-outs.

 

and i am not getting any drop-outs with the following interfaces:

 

m-audio 410

esi quatafire

motu ultralite

 

good luck,

 

-andrejs

[mikews99]

i tried to disable all devices but display, firewire adapter and tc near. i also killed all startup programs. i also disabled network over firewire. i even tried to disable network in bios, as there is an option.. and i am still getting drop-outs.

Try disabling power management in the BIOS:

Phoenix


AMI



You can also try changing the power scheme in Control Panel to "Always on."

[JDA]

Being blind myself, I have to rely on sighted people to even perform firmware update. Thanks God, TC plug-ins are provided as VST version as well because at least I can play around with automated parameters and such. I just want software engineers and mainstream public at least to be aware of these problems and point them out to the teams inside your companies. How would you feel if you had to rely on someone to drive your own car?

 

 

Just wanted to support Vick on this one too!

 

Best Regards, JD...

[Eigenwert]

Yesterday was the last day to bring back the Konnekt 8. That´s what I did.

 

A friends friend uses a RME PCIe with 64 bit Vista. Works great. Excellent latency. Nothing for laptop users. But gimme one of those for my Mac Pro, please. Bye bye, Konnekt thread!