DigiTech Vocalist Live 4 (VL4)

[Sonic Jedi]

 

Originally Posted by ocheye

I thought it had gone awfully quiet. Is everyone on holiday?

 

Yes, I was on holiday. Here in the good ol' USA, it's something we celebrate called the 4th of July. I can understand if you do not celebrate that day over there in the UK

[fuzzball]

I was on holiday...then I had a pile of work...fun. I have a bass player that could use a VL2.

[SoloArtist]

Originally Posted by Serjr

Yea I was wondering why no other post were after mine!!

I think something was wrong with this thread too. Did anyone notice that Anderton's page one photo looked like a green negative? Now its changed to a different shot of him bending over being frisked or something, (assume the position! ) Just kidding!!!!

I know I sound like a stock broker but right now is a good time to sell a VL2 or even better, a VL4. Solo players and duos would want either as vocal preamps. Small, easy to operate, foot controlled and relatively inexpensive. There's still enough mystery as they are still relatively new gear. Your Ebay sale should do great then. My VL2 on Ebay got back most of my purchase price for the unit. I threw in a microphone and it was a done deal.

Speaking of foot pedals, for those rockers among us, I have some nice reviews up on distortion and wah. I also have the BOSS GT-10 which I plan to cover in Part III along with the VL4, (it also has some guitar effects), and the RP Series from DigiTech. The BOSS GT-10 is built like a custom touring pedal board I've seen made for professional bands. The thing sounds AMAZING and I haven't even gotten through half the presets.

If any of you guys use a compressor, phaser, chorus, wah, distortion, delay, reverb etc. and would like to share how you put together your pedal board or settings, free to leave a comment at the end of the article(s). I have a Tarcase which is a custom made pedal board / case made in Nashville, TN.

Thanks!

[Michael Angel]

Glad to see everyone is back - I hated checking in and finding nothing new. You are all GREAT!

On a different note, we've had some excellent posts from people recording by tracking vocals directly and processing them afterwards with the VL4/Pro.

A few nights ago I read an interesting post from a few years ago from a guy who was recording by tracking the vocals as they were being processed by the old Vocalist product.

Is anyone here recording vocals by tracking with the VL4 or Pro initially rather than after the fact?

I'd love to hear about your experiences.

Thanks.

Michael

[SoloArtist]

Originally Posted by Michael Angel

Glad to see everyone is back - I hated checking in and finding nothing new. You are all GREAT!

Is anyone here recording vocals by tracking with the VL4 or Pro initially rather than after the fact?

I'd love to hear about your experiences.

Thanks.

Michael

Hey Michael,

I'm thinking of just miking the amp for the vocals from my VL4. I'm using a stand alone unit that burns the CD's onboard. I really don't want to get into more hook ups and wires so that's probably the best route but I'm open to other ideas.

[Michael Angel]

This is a broad generalization but it seems there are basically three ways to record with the VL4 or Pro:
1. Live - as in setting up a microphone and letting it capture the entire sound at once.

2. Traditional multi-tracking by recording the vocal dry and processing the vocal at mix down with the VL.

3. Multi-tracking by recording the vocal with the VL processing it up front.

Each seems to offer advantages and disadvantages. I'd love to get everyone's experiences and thoughts on the matter.

[whinersmusic]

Originally Posted by Michael Angel

This is a broad generalization but it seems there are basically three ways to record with the VL4 or Pro:
1. Live - as in setting up a microphone and letting it capture the entire sound at once.

2. Traditional multi-tracking by recording the vocal dry and processing the vocal at mix down with the VL.

3. Multi-tracking by recording the vocal with the VL processing it up front.

Each seems to offer advantages and disadvantages. I'd love to get everyone's experiences and thoughts on the matter.

I wrote about this a few posts ago in the sense of trying to figure out a way to get the signal of my guitar back into the VL4 for a post record of harmony. Anyway, this still isn't working out for me as I still can't isolate my guitar track only from the GarageBand outputs to go back into the VL4. But, that being said, I am very satisfied with the process of just laying down the vocals as a track with harmony straight into my GarageBand set up. I just need to get a nice vocal that I'm happy with and then I can go about adding the other instruments around it. Kind of a backwards way of going about it rahter than laying down a rythm section first.

I've also found that when I try to do a revised vocal - just singing along to my other tracks - I lose a bit of warmth. I guess I'm just trying too hard to be perfect with the vocal and it starts to sound forced or insincere. I'm certainly more comfortable playing and singing together as it is. So, the unit lends itself to my approach.

All that being said, if you like an "off-the-floor" studio feeling to your music, then I wouldn't hesitate to just go ahead use the VL straight into the process you use to record without farting around with separate harmony and lead tracks. Especially great for a demo for the band as they'll get the whole idea of what harmony you want from this. And it is a major time saver to do the vocal in one pass (as opposed to singing it over and over again generating your harmony separately each time onto tracks).

I've been posting stuff on my web and other places linked off of there. I very much like the fact the harmony will sound exactly the same live as it does on the track. I'm attached at the hip with the VL4 now.

[fuzzball]

Originally Posted by Michael Angel

Glad to see everyone is back - I hated checking in and finding nothing new. You are all GREAT!

On a different note, we've had some excellent posts from people recording by tracking vocals directly and processing them afterwards with the VL4/Pro.

A few nights ago I read an interesting post from a few years ago from a guy who was recording by tracking the vocals as they were being processed by the old Vocalist product.

Is anyone here recording vocals by tracking with the VL4 or Pro initially rather than after the fact?

I'd love to hear about your experiences.

Thanks.

Michael

I plan on trying to use the VL4 for an initial vocal track in about 2 weeks (we need to get the guitar tracks recorded first). I will share my results.

[fuzzball]

Originally Posted by whinersmusic

I wrote about this a few posts ago in the sense of trying to figure out a way to get the signal of my guitar back into the VL4 for a post record of harmony. Anyway, this still isn't working out for me as I still can't isolate my guitar track only from the GarageBand outputs to go back into the VL4. But, that being said, I am very satisfied with the process of just laying down the vocals as a track with harmony straight into my GarageBand set up. I just need to get a nice vocal that I'm happy with and then I can go about adding the other instruments around it. Kind of a backwards way of going about it rahter than laying down a rythm section first.

I've also found that when I try to do a revised vocal - just singing along to my other tracks - I lose a bit of warmth. I guess I'm just trying too hard to be perfect with the vocal and it starts to sound forced or insincere. I'm certainly more comfortable playing and singing together as it is. So, the unit lends itself to my approach.

All that being said, if you like an "off-the-floor" studio feeling to your music, then I wouldn't hesitate to just go ahead use the VL straight into the process you use to record without farting around with separate harmony and lead tracks. Especially great for a demo for the band as they'll get the whole idea of what harmony you want from this. And it is a major time saver to do the vocal in one pass (as opposed to singing it over and over again generating your harmony separately each time onto tracks).

I've been posting stuff on my web and other places linked off of there. I very much like the fact the harmony will sound exactly the same live as it does on the track. I'm attached at the hip with the VL4 now.

I would offer help but I do not use that software...sorry. I have done it with the Roland 2480 and received very good results.

[whinersmusic]

 

Originally Posted by fuzzball

I would offer help but I do not use that software...crap. I have done it with the Roland 2480 and received very good results.

 

Well, I don't think GarageBand is crap but you're entitled to your own opinion of it.

[fuzzball]

Originally Posted by whinersmusic

Well, I don't think GarageBand is crap but you're entitled to your own opinion of it.

Oh I am sorry I did not mean Garageband is crap, I meant "crap" I could not help. It was one of things that did not translate into type sorry.

I will fix that in my post.

[Failure Theory]

 

Originally Posted by whinersmusic

I've also found that when I try to do a revised vocal - just singing along to my other tracks - I lose a bit of warmth. I guess I'm just trying too hard to be perfect with the vocal and it starts to sound forced or insincere. I'm certainly more comfortable playing and singing together as it is. So, the unit lends itself to my approach.

 

That is exactly how I feel! I think that when I am just singing (especially recording) I try way too hard and it shows. Lately I have been trying some things out while in the car and really trying to relax while singing. It gave me the idea to get a comfortable chair that would also lend itself to good posture (my bucket seats in my 4Runner work perfect) for recording. The singing has to flow and when I am in the moment of playing and singing I am able to do that much better. Although it takes a couple songs for me to work out the nerves and get comfortable...

[whinersmusic]

Originally Posted by fuzzball

Oh I am sorry I did not mean Garageband is crap, I meant "crap" I could not help. It was one of things that did not translate into type sorry.

I will fix that in my post.

I get you now. The issue seems to be Garage Band won't let me take out separate tracks to my interface, a MOTU product. The MOTU will let me have separate tracks to send into GarageBand and it looks like I could get separate outs as well from there but not from the GarageBand itself (to send to the MOTU). I can certainly mix the separate tracks in the GarageBand interface.

But, and my main point, I'm really not getting too hung up about having eparate harmony tracks since I think the direct vocal-and-harmony-together coming in to a track is working fine. In fact, I like it.

If I wanted to go further with the perfection and production process, that's where I'd want to take my guitar track out of GarageBand and bring it through the VL to have a few more goes at singing. I really don't know if it's worth it though to have separate harmony VL tracks.

I really think at that point, if you are going to that kind of effort, you should sing the harmony yourself rather than letting the VL do it.

Of course, that brings up whether you can actually sing the harmony part. I like the fact that the VL figures that out for me

My two cents is the VL4 going into a recording situation does just fine without having to break up the harmony itself into separate tracks.

I'm also finding the effects in from my mixer are fine. I can add these post record but haven't found as good a setting that way in GarageBand. I don't use the VL effects at all for the same reason. I just like my reverb and echo from my Berringer unit better.

If anyone has some GarageBand tips on getting single track outs (feed outs from GarageBand itself that is) you can always mail me at whinersmusic@gmail.com to keep the forum focus here on the VL.

[fuzzball]

You could sing the lead separate for one track then go through and turn the lead all of the way down and just sing on the harmony parts. I have tried that and it worked well.

Just have a guitar player strum the chord changes as you sing and have that input into the VL4. They don't even need to play the whole thing just the main changes the VL4 saves the current chord for a while in the system.

[SoloArtist]

Originally Posted by fuzzball

You could sing the lead separate for one track then go through and turn the lead all of the way down and just sing on the harmony parts. I have tried that and it worked well.

Just have a guitar player strum the chord changes as you sing and have that input into the VL4. They don't even need to play the whole thing just the main changes the VL4 saves the current chord for a while in the system.

Now this is advice I can use....simple and to the point. I also think miking the amp for the lead on one track and then the harmonies for another track is pretty straight forward. I like the BOSS BR1200CD but I'm not too impressed with its onboard vocal effects. It does accomodate a condenser but the sweetening effects just aren't there in my opinion.

I was also mulling over the guitar tracks. I plan to record a Fender Strat with the BOSS GT-10 for a blues instrumental and a C.F. Martin D-16 (with under the saddle pickup) for some acoustic work to back up my vocals on another song. The Martin can most likely just plug in because I'd be using a sparkling clean amp effect. I can't believe you cropped up with the TWO things I still needed to work out for this project. You're a Godsend dude!!! See, it pays to come here regularly.

Thanks!!!!

[gc24]

Does anybody else hear the backup harmonies on this song as a 3rd down and a 3rd up or am I way off and it's just a 3rd up?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeiFvP2o_g4&feature=related

[orbm1]

there is definitely a low harmony, I am not sure if it is a 5th or a 3rd... but you are not dreaming!

 

 

Omar

[gc24]

Thanks. I think it's a 3rd. Do you hear a 3rd up also?

[Failure Theory]

Does anybody else hear the backup harmonies on this song as a 3rd down and a 3rd up or am I way off and it's just a 3rd up? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeiFvP2o_g4&feature=related

 

I think you're right on the 3rd down. I can hear a higher voice especially on the 2nd chorus. Possibly a fifth though (one part I thought I heard a female voice). I would need to sing with it but I am in the office and that might not work out so great for me! For a song like this I would probably do a 3rd below and a 3rd and 5th above. but adjust the volume of the individual voices to get the right mix.

[gc24]

I think your right. I think it's a 3rd down and 3rd above. I have tried it and it sounds pretty close. I haven't ever played with altering the volume of the individual voices with the Pro, might be a good idea though. I did turn down the harmony so it's back behind me a bit.

[HaloRecordings]

 

I think your right. I think it's a 3rd down and 3rd above. I have tried it and it sounds pretty close. I haven't ever played with altering the volume of the individual voices with the Pro, might be a good idea though. I did turn down the harmony so it's back behind me a bit.

 

 

I use the "Voice Balance" paramiter on my "3rd D - 3rd U" patch. I set it to +75. This gives more weight (volume) to the upper harmony and tucks the "3rd D" just under it.

 

Give it a try. Sounds nice.

 

David

[Failure Theory]

I use the "Voice Balance" paramiter on my "3rd D - 3rd U" patch. I set it to +75. This gives more weight (volume) to the upper harmony and tucks the "3rd D" just under it. Give it a try. Sounds nice. David

 

I haven't tried doing it this way before. I have adjusted the voices individually. Where do you find this parameter? What would it do in the case of 4 part harmony? Take your 75% for example; would the 5U have the highest level and the 3U have less but more than 3D which would have more that 5D, which would be the least??? I hope that makes sense

[Keithos28]

That is exactly how I feel! I think that when I am just singing (especially recording) I try way too hard and it shows. Lately I have been trying some things out while in the car and really trying to relax while singing. It gave me the idea to get a comfortable chair that would also lend itself to good posture (my bucket seats in my 4Runner work perfect) for recording. The singing has to flow and when I am in the moment of playing and singing I am able to do that much better. Although it takes a couple songs for me to work out the nerves and get comfortable...

 

Hopefully this ties in with the same vien as the VL4, but even though the VL4 enhances my vocals at the regular gigs and many people can get impressed with the harmonies, probably only you yourself [be the honest person you are with no snakes and mirrors:)] know your capabilities and limits. So with tongue in cheek I borrowed from my local library the following:

 

Buddy Mix Singer's Workout and Performance VOcals director Brian Cole.

 

Ok so before you laugh at me , for trying this, especially the part about lying on the floor with the book on my chest and doing the breathing exercises and vocal excercises, I found [through all the doubt in my mind] that the training did help me in bringing up the standard of that instrument in your throat. Okay doubting [thomases] .............I was one too, but hey as musicians we have no fear ,..we'll try anything [inside our studio walls] Anybody try anything of this sort? I mean Michael Jackson has been singing since 5 years of age but when he did the THRILLER album [he was alot older then] he took vocal training.!!

[gc24]

Thanks David. I tried that out on that song and it seems to make a difference.

[HaloRecordings]

I haven't tried doing it this way before. I have adjusted the voices individually. Where do you find this parameter? What would it do in the case of 4 part harmony? Take your 75% for example; would the 5U have the highest level and the 3U have less but more than 3D which would have more that 5D, which would be the least??? I hope that makes sense

 

Tayler,

 

Yes, I believe that's how it works. Here's the definition for "Voice Balance" from the manual (The VL4 should have the same setting);

 

"Controls the balance between the generated Harmony Voices. If there is only one voicing, then this control has no effect. But if there is more than one voicing enabled, then this parameter controls the balance between these voices. A value of 50 gives approximately the same output level for all the voices. Values less than 50 increase the level of the lower Voicing compared to the higher Voicing , while values over 50 increase the level of the higher Voicing compared the lower Voicing. Range: 0-99.

 

I like a value of 75 to bump up the higher voicing.

 

Give it a try.

 

DAvid