DigiTech Vocalist Live 4 (VL4)

[pickinatit]

I agree. The Gold Channel has the most well rounded effects. You can take your tweaking from there because it has all the basics you could want for strong leads and harmonies.

 

 

When you say the "gold channel has the most well rounded effects" are you talking about the EQ, reverb, pc....those type of effects ?

 

I would be running the mic through the VL4 and then to our P.A. powered mixer. (Peavey XR-8600) Should I be keeping that P.A. channel dry of any effects and just use the VL4 for all the effects ?

 

I too am having trouble getting "real" sounding Harmony voices, especially with our Female lead vocalist(s) singing thru it. Any special tips for settings for female vocalists?

[SoloArtist]

When you say the "gold channel has the most well rounded effects" are you talking about the EQ, reverb, pc....those type of effects ? I would be running the mic through the VL4 and then to our P.A. powered mixer. (Peavey XR-8600) Should I be keeping that P.A. channel dry of any effects and just use the VL4 for all the effects ? I too am having trouble getting "real" sounding Harmony voices, especially with our Female lead vocalist(s) singing thru it. Any special tips for settings for female vocalists?

 

 

 

Yes, those are the sorts of effects included with the Gold Channel preset. The vocal effects as well as the chorus for guitar seem to be the most versatile for my style of playing.

 

Both my rigs have an onboard mixer with eq/ FX or effects. I keep my amp effects a bit on wet side as I think they add a little extra "flava" over a completely dry signal. I believe the booklet suggests switching the gender of the backup singers to be opposite of that of the lead singer. This should assure more natural sounding backup harmonies.

[gc24]

Notice that the CSN in the Pro doesn't have the Gals gender selected for it. You can select it however and actually go in the advanced mode and select voice number 3 (for Nash) and increase the gals amount. Anyone tried this on the Pro?

[SoloArtist]

I don't like the idea of using pitch correct, I must admit, that's out of the realms of 'vocal enhancement' and into 'cheating' in my opinion (*ducks*) :poke: You're all right, the gold channel is very good, I hadn't tried it before. I also changed the voices and I really like it now I also get good results in a context similar to that of the previous post where I just sing into the mic, and I don't hear the harmonies whilst they're being recorded. It's when I hear the harmonies things go patchy, but this should get better with time

I personally haven't found the pitch correction on the VL4 to be of much use. I practice extensively with backing tracks so that I can sing on key. However, in the real world, recording studio time is VERY expensive. They will use whatever electronic means necessary to arrive at the finished product as quickly as possbile, including pitch correction, compression, reverb, delay and a host of other vocal goodies. Nobody records through a dry mic anymore!

One thing I wanted to say is in my experience, it doesn't pay to get too "tweaky" with any of this stuff. You can play with the VL4 settings ad infinitum and then go and play in a venue where those parameters are totally useless. The dynamics of the room are seldom going to be what you are used to at home or in the studio! You don't want to get so caught up on details of your "sound" that you forget the more important things like stage presence and connecting with your audience. Most of the time people are not going to notice if your eq is perfectly balanced. What they are looking for is the complete package. Relax! You should look like you're having a good time up there, not obsessing over your rig.

[HaloRecordings]

Relax! You should look like you're having a good time up there, not obsessing over your rig.

Excellent point! Couldn't agree more. My sound is perfect for the environment I practice in, but when I play out, it all sounds different. I'll do a quick sound check and make some quick EQ adjustments form the mixer, then that’s it, it's time to have fun.

David

[SoloArtist]

Excellent point! Couldn't agree more. My sound is perfect for the environment I practice in, but when I play out, it all sounds different. I'll do a quick sound check and make some quick EQ adjustments form the mixer, then that’s it, it's time to have fun. David

There you go David! That's basically it for me too at a gig. I also electronically tune my instruments right before going on. The acoustics of the same venue can even vary from one night to the next depending on the size of the crowd. If you are going to be that focused on your "tone", you're going to miss the whole point of performing. Uh, and what is that?
To rip it up and enjoy the ride!

Yeah boyz!!!!

[Failure Theory]

There you go David! That's basically it for me too at a gig. I also electronically tune my instruments right before going on. The acoustics of the same venue can even vary from one night to the next depending on the size of the crowd. If you are going to be that focused on your "tone", you're going to miss the whole point of performing. Uh, and what is that? To rip it up and enjoy the ride! Yeah boyz!!!!

The Pros are paying guys (sound engineers) big bucks (well I'm not sure how big) to get the sound just right. These are guys that have a bachelors or masters degree in Sound Engineering. It would be nearly impossible for the musician to put on a good show while trying to focus on getting the perfect tone. I went crazy just trying to get the volume levels good for guitar recitals when I used to teach. I also performed on 1 out of 3 songs. It was way too much to do, and I wasn't being at all picky about tone. My personal theory is that you should set up your guitar and vocal effects processors to sound exactly how you want them on a recording (listening with good quality headphones), and then use a mixer for basic EQ settings on the fly at different venues...

[whinersmusic]

 

The Pros are paying guys (sound engineers) big bucks (well I'm not sure how big) to get the sound just right. These are guys that have a bachelors or masters degree in Sound Engineering. It would be nearly impossible for the musician to put on a good show while trying to focus on getting the perfect tone. I went crazy just trying to get the volume levels good for guitar recitals when I used to teach. I also performed on 1 out of 3 songs. It was way too much to do, and I wasn't being at all picky about tone . My personal theory is that you should set up your guitar and vocal effects processors to sound exactly how you want them on a recording (listening with good quality headphones), and then use a mixer for basic EQ settings on the fly at different venues...

 

 

Got to get involved in this too. I've learned the hard way it's up to you in all senses of the word to manage your own tone. If you are like me and tone is part of "the thing you do", you have to accept that you will have no one to blame except yourself if you don't get it right. By that I mean if you arrive and unveil, among other things, the VL4 plus a rack of gear, then you really need to know what your settings should be and how to adjust them on the fly.

 

The Forum has talked about lack of time in open stage and even radio play settings. Thus, I say you need to master your tone ... understand exactly what it is and how you get there ... be at one with your gear and so on. The fastest way to lose respect of any sound person, let alone other performers, is to have your gear not work or take a long time to get to where you want it to be.

 

So you have to practice set up and take down and remember things (as any sound person would) about room size and conditions. I've found levels don't change that much from room to room from the rehearsal space but I've taken stock of different room conditions and know what to hit to avoid issues.

 

It has paid off in so many ways to have worked all of the set up and take down and adjustments before hand. The VL4 is another item in the list. I once went to a patch where I'd forgotten to adjust the compression to match all of the other settings I was using .... major feedback and a perfect example of "my bad"! No one to blame but myself and I won't let that happen again. After that, I pre-set patches from 1 - 25 the exact same way (compression etc wise not harmony wise) and tested each. I'm only using about four patches consistently but wanted to be safe in the event I lean on the pedal too hard and it zips up the chain.

 

I guess, to close it off, it's worth the extra effort on working on and achieving great and distinct tone - well worth it. But you need to rehearse all that getting great tone means - just as much as your singing and playing. It needs to come together as a seamless presentation. Analogy here is you should be able to engage the harmony on the VL4 without having to look down and around your feet all the time to come on and off. Same with your other gear from set up to take down.

 

In the end, no sound person is going to give you what you don't know you want.

 

By the way, that's another reason I haven't bought the AKG mic yet. I'm pretty certain feedback is going to be an issue as I play quite loud on my acoustic and that's a notorious problem for any condenser mic to handle even one with good feedback rejection.

[pickinatit]

All that is fine and well. But I've yet to cross the first hurdle. That's getting a "real" enough sound out of the VL4 just at rehearsal to convince my band mates that it is a viable tool that we should be incorporating into our act.

[whinersmusic]

 

All that is fine and well. But I've yet to cross the first hurdle. That's getting a "real" enough sound out of the VL4 just at rehearsal to convince my band mates that it is a viable tool that we should be incorporating into our act.

 

 

Yeah, that's part of getting there though. We've talked about this very thing a lot here. Some resistance by band mates to it altogether seems common. Definitely try out the voice styles and amount settings in the harmony area. It really helps tone down the mechanical nature. I've also found with my band using one voice rather than 4 harmony seems to temper the issue of "to use or not use". They seem to have agreed that it enhances us and keeps us focused on pitch. So ... it's worth plugging away with and "at" them to give it a fair shake. No different than a guitarist wanting to add a leslie or wah etc to the mix.

[fuzzball]

I have use the VL4 now many times in the practice setting, a few times for shows, and several times in the studio. I must say that it is a very good tool for all of thoes things. I finaly found the right settings for the weezer song...I should have guesed setting the style setting to drunk would do the trick:)

The pitch correction is very useful when set to fit the performer, and the harmonies are very good if you take time to set them to fit the songs needs. I currently have 4 patches that work for all of our originals and 4 patches for our cover tunes. It has been a purchase that I do not regret at all.

[gc24]

What 4 patches have you found for the cover tunes?

[Rickeysound]

All that is fine and well. But I've yet to cross the first hurdle. That's getting a "real" enough sound out of the VL4 just at rehearsal to convince my band mates that it is a viable tool that we should be incorporating into our act.

 

 

I've had several experienced musicians come up to me after gigs and say that if I hadn't already told them about the VL4, they would never have known the harmonies weren't real. And I use the VL4 on almost every song. Especially in a loud rock band, they blend into the mix.

 

Here's a YouTube of us playing Baby Blue by Badfinger. Listen to when the third up harmony kicks in - at the start of the second verse and then throughout most of the song. I sometimes find myself singing along with the harmony thinking, dang, that sounds better than the lead vocal:

 

 

 

(Believe me, I'm not holding this up as a model of something great - to the contrary, I'm embarrassed by my missing the high notes on the bridge, but just in terms of the harmony, see if you think it sounds real.)

 

It's worth fiddling with it until you get a sound that's right for your voice. And as Keith and others have said several times, one has to get used to singing with the VL4. If your lead vocal wavers, the harmonies will sound drunken. The stronger and steadier the lead vocal, the stronger and steadier (and I think more realistic) the harmonies.

 

Rickysound

http://www.thetripsband.com

[Failure Theory]

I'm also curious to hear your thoughts on the ATM-710. As I mentioned earlier, I flattened all EQ settings (ie Mixer EQ, PRO EQ and PRO Parametric Filter). Didn't like the sound with any of my mics. I changed the Mid Frequency to 350, the Mid Gain to -8 and Bass to -4. That gave me nice crisp vocals with the least amount of feedback using the ATM-710. Provided I flatten the EQ on a mixer or amp, this setting should provided good enough sound with mimimal adjustments at the board. Getting tired of playing with the EQ, but I have to get the sound right then I can decide weather to keep the ATM-710 or return it. Been looking at the BBE Maxcom rack mount compresser/Limiter/Gate/Maximizer. Any one use this device? Any thoughts? David

 

 

Ok, I finally got a little bit of time to play!!! I was using the factory gold channel (big surprise) and going straight into my mixer with the free monitoring headphones I recieved with my 710. Upon plugging the ATM 710 I was immediately impressed with how sensitive it is (I am curious about feedback, but with the 10 db pad/cut I think it would be fine) I played a song I am familiar with and then switched mics. The other mic seemed to require a little more effort as some have mentioned, although I left the input level exactly the same with the same output. But I didn't notice that much of a difference. The dynamic mic I was comparing to was an AKG D790 (a much clearer mic than my Shure AXS2 it cost $130 on sale, and I should note that I love this mic) I did a quick recording and was surprised at the clarity. Remember I didn't tweak the EQ at all. I am a firm believer that EQ should not be used to make up for the lack of frequency response from a particular source, and it just leads to a dirtier sound as I mentioned earlier. Aside from that was the experience singing. It was easier on my voice with the 710 because it is so sensitive, which is wierd because the input was set the same for both mics. After this little test I am happy I bought the 710. I will post some recordings later, when I get the time...

[dr5euss]

Try recording and playing it back...whilst I was reocording this it was sounding odd, but listening back I like the effect (I probably mixed a little too much guitar in, though):

http://www.soundlantern.co.uk/UpdatedSoundPage.do?ToId=4215&Path=waitingintheweeds20101.mp3

[dr5euss]

BTW, that's just straight 'Gold Channel', with perhaps the voice on the harmony changed, I can't remember. I didn't tweak anything else, and for an 'out the box' sound it ain't bad.

I think it's just that when I sing with the harmonizer it's almost as though I'm singing a chord rather than a note, so it's unnatural...but listening back to a reocording is somehow different.

[gc24]

Waiting in the weeds sounds great to me.

[gc24]

Anyone use a drum machine as a solo artist along with the VL4 or Pro or is it just too complicated with all of this?

[dr5euss]

Anyone use a drum machine as a solo artist along with the VL4 or Pro or is it just too complicated with all of this?

 

 

I've been thinking about it, I was going to add it in after the VL4 into the mixer though...I run the mic and guitar into the VL4, then have an XLR output into Ch1 of the mixer, at which point I was gonna add drums before going out to the speaker. Do you specifically want the drum to go into the Pro...are you not using a mixer?

[strat2]

Anyone use a drum machine as a solo artist along with the VL4 or Pro or is it just too complicated with all of this?

On stage :
Can you handle a drum machine, that is the primary hurdle / not a harmonizer.
The Drum Machine would take (complexity) precedence over the use of the harmonizer, you can't mess up punching in a harmonizer 'time wise', cause it doesn't matter/not mission critical, if you don't get the harmony punched in you can do a go around and try it again.

I tend to go in and out of time, so I need to hear the drum machine loud and clear, complexity starts at the drum machine, if you can handle it, your good to go, a harmonizer should not be an issue IMO, so long as you are understanding how one is used, and have no problem with dialing in or presetting what you plan to use on a given tune.
Of course if you don't have one that's set up so there are no surprises on stage , that would be another issue.

Here's a killer though , I've been thinking about using a looper for my guitar rhythm parts, with a drum machine, now that's an issue.
Not and issue with a harmonizer regardless of brand, but an issue with interfacing with the drum machine, if I don't punch in at the exact right time in and out with the looper, I'm screwed.
By the way I should preface this in the sense that the drum machine should not be a punch in and out ordeal , it's in at the beginning and out at the end not on and off a bunch of times through out the song.....

2cents................

[strat2]

Ok, I finally got a little bit of time to play!!! I was using the factory gold channel (big surprise) and going straight into my mixer with the free monitoring headphones I recieved with my 710. Upon plugging the ATM 710 I was immediately impressed with how sensitive it is (I am curious about feedback, but with the 10 db pad/cut I think it would be fine) I played a song I am familiar with and then switched mics. The other mic seemed to require a little more effort as some have mentioned, although I left the input level exactly the same with the same output. But I didn't notice that much of a difference. The dynamic mic I was comparing to was an AKG D790 (a much clearer mic than my Shure AXS2 it cost $130 on sale, and I should note that I love this mic) I did a quick recording and was surprised at the clarity. Remember I didn't tweak the EQ at all. I am a firm believer that EQ should not be used to make up for the lack of frequency response from a particular source, and it just leads to a dirtier sound as I mentioned earlier. Aside from that was the experience singing. It was easier on my voice with the 710 because it is so sensitive, which is wierd because the input was set the same for both mics. After this little test I am happy I bought the 710. I will post some recordings later, when I get the time...

I think if someone is doing an AB test, messing with eq looses the Ab...
Course the flip side is for the audio genius that would want to eq everything according to coil alloys / barometric pressure / day of week / elevation / mic stand etc...
I can see some of that, but for general tests the playing field should be the same one.

Condensers, if I have them right lean towards a bit of compression, which would lead to the feeling of ease while singing, softer parts aren't having to be 'pushed' to be heard, I would think you'll get a slightly 'warmer' sound.
Looking forward to recordings if you get around to it.

:thu:

[gc24]

Think I will just stick with what I have.

[Michael Angel]

Sounds real to me George. Nice feel too. Keep up the great work!

[SoloArtist]

Anyone use a drum machine as a solo artist along with the VL4 or Pro or is it just too complicated with all of this?

 

 

That would be me, (hand being raised).

 

I use a BOSS DR-3 Dr. Rhythm drum and bass machine in stereo. I connect it with RCA cables to my PA systems. It flys right along with the VL4 which is connected in stereo as well.

 

I've been performing with both for almost a year and I've even added a dual CD DJ workstation. It is NOT too complicated to do any of this. All you need are enough available channels to accomodate all of the lines. My Roland SA-300 has four channels while my Fender Passport PD-500 has eight. I try to mark my connections with a silver pen so everything plugs in pretty quick.

 

The DR-3 has decent sounding drums and bass. The cymbals are a little shaky but overall, I've found that it sounds a lot better than other "mechanical" drum and bass machines. If you have a good sound system, it will sound VERY realistic. My drum and bass machine adds a lot to my performances so I would replace it quite quickly if it blew up!

[gc24]

Solo: I have a a Bose System so it's not stereo. Not sure how that would sound. Also, I read that the DR-3 isn't user friendly and hard to program. Your experience?