DigiTech Vocalist Live 4 (VL4)

[lespaul1964]

This has been pretty much my experience with the voiceworks. Gives the SE´s that we work with a lot of trouble. So the VL4 is not much different then? Anyone else uses it with pro sound without a problem?

Originally Posted by Rickeysound

I've had the opposite experience. I've had soundmen refuse to let me use the VL4 and I've had several other soundmen tell me they could make my vocals sound much better without the VL4. I was relying on it for harmonies at the time, so could not ditch it. But now that we have a harmony vocalist, I've said to good-bye to the VL4.

[stache49]

Very helpful . . .thanks for putting in the time .

[stache49]

My experience (classic rock band) is this: We do songs like Train, Train by Blackfoot where I am singing the harmony line with my lead singer while playing the main guitar riff (which doesn't really settle on one chord). By setting the proper key and turning off the music IQ I don't have to worry about the harmonies getting "lost" which they did when playing the riff w/o an established chord. 2) I use qute abit of reverb on my led vocal, but have found that using NO reverbeffects on harmonies makes them sound more realistic and stand out. 3) between using a pedal board for guitar AND the VL4 pedal board it can get easy to hit the wrong switch. Setting the vL4 to NOT toggle, but to hold and release keeps my feet planted and I make far fewer miscues when switching from vl4 toi GT8. I have railed against gimics for guitar and vocals for years, but these 2 devices make an average band pretty darn good.

[stache49]

Ditto, turn down the guitar level knob to zero or almost zero, play the chords you need and you shouldn't hear any guitar sound oit of the p.a. but the vl$ will still "read" the guitar/keyboard input.

[stache49]

I play in a 3-piece band where we all sing, but nobody is "great'. Some songs we can do the harmonies naturally. But alot of songs the vl4 just sweetens the songs so much. The other guitar player has a Helicon and I have begged him to go back to his vl2. It is such a difference. In all fairness to the Helicon he has a baritone voice, so when he tries to add harmonies the low timber of his voice stand out every time. When I can get him to sing an octave higher, even falsetto, everything sounds alot better. Go with the Vocalist.

[bart2brett]

I asked Digitech support about using an expression pedal to control the harmony level and they responded with this: "Harmony level can be assigned to an external mono, passive expression pedal such as the Ernie Ball VP/JR."
My question is, has anyone here tried the Ernie Ball (or other pedal)?

[whinersmusic]

Originally Posted by bart2brett

I asked Digitech support about using an expression pedal to control the harmony level and they responded with this: "Harmony level can be assigned to an external mono, passive expression pedal such as the Ernie Ball VP/JR."
My question is, has anyone here tried the Ernie Ball (or other pedal)?

I'm a big fan of the expression pedal as you can tell for sure if you have harmony engaged or not. Even with the non-latch setting, the digi-pedal on board the VL 4 is so small you are guaranteed to f*&^ up bringing on harmony at some point. My own live experience had the settings go to a new harmony patch as I nudged the harmony setting pedal instead of the harmony on. Way too embarrassing!!!! So, with the expression pedal you get a bigger size and a pretty straight forward way of engaging harmony (and your foot is no where near the harmony patch settings). I have a Ball Jr btw, and it doesn't work with my VL 4. I was very disappointed about that. I'm using the equivalent to the boss expression pedals but a cheaper version. Not really sure why technically the Jr wouldn't do it - I gather it has something to do with the set up and perhaps mine isn't passive. Anyway I would try before you buy on the Digitech unit itself before assuming passive or whatever is going to work.

[lespaul1964]

I just got my unit (VL4). I have only tweaked with it for a half hour or so. So far I can say it is not bad, but not impressive either. Mine does have a little hiss when pushed through a PA, similar to the hiss coming out of the Voiceworks. I find that the delay is very limited, and does not really "ping pong", I have it set up stereo into a stereo mixer. On other units, even older Digitech units, I have been able to program each harmony while on this one I have found that one of the pre programmed combinations must be used. Also, someone mentioned using no effects on the harmonies, I have not found a way to manipulate effects only on the harmonies, will read manual again. I have found that Musiq tracks the guitar quite well so far.

For under 300 I find it OK, but not for its original price. Anyone have tips on getting a true alternating ping pong effect?

[rrrredrvr]

I've been using VL4 for several years now. Here are my thoughts/comments on it. I like the VL4 a lot, and the harmonies it produces. Not everyone else in the band cares for it, though (especially when its on-key and they're NOT). It has LOTS of capabilities, and I've tried most of it, but I usually end up using only 3 or 4 settings, so its a lot of hardware to carry around when all I need is a small piece of it. It takes up a big chunk of pedal board space, and this next issue is my biggest complaint. It takes a 12 V AC adapter, unlike all my other pedals, which are 9V DC. This complicates my setup, and increases setup/tear down time, and means my backup supply won't power it and I don't have a spare 12V AC wall wart. PLEASE MAKE A VERSION THAT RUNS ON A 9V DC SUPPLY (I know you can do that, and still provide Phantom power)!! The guitar effects ONLY go out to the audio feed with the vocals, so I don't use them. I would if I could send them to the Guitar Thru signal. How about a selector switch for guitar effects for NONE, Guitar Thru, Mic Outs, or BOTH? If you could make a simpler, smaller version, the effects I usually use are pitch correction, UNISONS, add 3rd above, add 3rd below, add 3rd + 5th above. That's all I'd need.

[hubcaps2]

My VL4 is now 3 years old and it's got a fault which I think is in the mic pre-amp stage. The unit works OK for a while then at frequent intervals produces a short duration VERY loud distorted "spike" in the output.
Anyone had a similar fault and if so was it easy to get repaired ?

[davidsol]

Does anyone know what the approximate delay settings should be to double track the lead vocal ? I have read that you need to have about a 20 milisecond delay but the setting doesn't show miliseconds, just 1 -70.

Any ideas would be helpful, I have been using trial and error but it's pretty fiddly !

Thanks in advance,

David

PS re the hitting the wrong pedal problem, I seem to have solved that by putting some velcro on the harmony pedal and a 6-8 inch long piece of wood which is the width of the pedal so effectively you can hit the wood which keeps you away from the main board. Looks a bit Heath-Robinson but works !

[MIKERUSSELL]

Howdy ,from a newbie

Have same bleeding problem , guitar to harmony.

[MIKERUSSELL]

Jim
I have the same problem , did you ever get to correct it ?

Mike

[davidsol]

A Sound buster will help with bleeding, it's a rubber disk that covers the sound hole of the guitar. Also if you stand rather than sit so that you're guitar is a bit further from the mic it will also help. I only get a problem when sitting down.

A further thought, maybe try using the gate levels, if you increase them it should ignore some of the lower volume sound.

Hope this helps.

David

[MIKERUSSELL]

Thank's
I do sit when I play , have a sound buster but won't fit on my guitar (sound hole volume).
Turned down mic. volume on mic. at mixer and bleeding stop, so it's coming from there.
Might try an alternative to condenser mic.

[MIKERUSSELL]

If you use your VL4 "LIVE" then you've probably already had this experience.
You have everything for your gig all set up. You started your first set and
half way through your first tune it happens, you take your foot and press the
"HARMONY" Pedal on your VL4 and instead of a great 3 part harmony
you sound just like Alvin and the Chipmunks.
WHY????

Because while you were making eye contact with your audience,
your foot made contact with the "DOWN" Program Pedal instead.

I am terrible at finding the right stomp pedal because I cannot stand still.
If your one who stands at the microphone and keeps your foot on the pedal
all the time then you probably haven't had this problem.
But if you really get into your music then something must be done!

This is what I came up with!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Aluminum Tubing 2 1/4 " wide by 1/2" Thick.

I cut a piece 12" long then sliced one end at 2" by 2" with a 1/4" lip on both ends.

It fits over the "HARMONY" Pedal like a glove, stays where you put it,
and your foot can approach from any angle without hitting any of the other Pedals.

Hey! DigiTech DUDES!!!!!
How about making a fancy high impact extruded plastic version for sale for a few bucks?????

Danny Ray Thomas

***

[davidsol]

Originally Posted by MIKERUSSELL

Thank's
I do sit when I play , have a sound buster but won't fit on my guitar (sound hole volume).
Turned down mic. volume on mic. at mixer and bleeding stop, so it's coming from there.
Might try an alternative to condenser mic.

Changing from a condenser mic will also help, I only get bleeding with a condenser, have you tried using the gate values ?

[MIKERUSSELL]

I'm pretty new to all this electronic stuff , my gate is usually at -50 . I will try a piece of cardboard over the sound hole today and try a non condenser mic. If sound hole is the issue , I will carve a small hole in the sound buster to accept my volume control .
Thank's again
Mike

[MIKERUSSELL]

I tried everything I could and I still hear bleeding when I press the harmony pedal.
Even when I play really gently I hear a distortion kind of noise , more like chorus.

[JD Rocker]

Originally Posted by Michael Angel

Hi SoloArtist,

My VL4 is on back order too. I was referring to hiss reported by one of the members in the VL2 thread regarding his VL4.

From everything I have read and it has been a lot there is NO WAY I am not getting this thing. It seems to be a truly remarkable piece of equipment. I am just curious if others have experienced the same hiss he had reported.

My initial response to him was to mention the ground lift switch and he said it helped with hum but did nothing with the hiss. He did say that how he set the Gate did seem to have an affect on it but I am most interested in learning if increasing the mic input level has any affect on reducing the hiss.

By the way, it was not reported as being a major problem, especially live. More of a concern in the studio.

Also, he did mention he was using power line conditioning and his system was clean in terms of doing an A/B comparision using mic into his board (no hiss) versus mic into VL4 (hiss).

Anyone else experiencing a similar problem? Have you found any work around solutions? Any constructive feedback on the matter would be appreciated.

Thanks.

I wanted to tell everyone. I have been using a Live 4 for many years now. I think I was one of the first to purchase one at the Music store when they got them in the first time.
I haven't had hiss on any of my mixers.
I used a Makie CFX20 for several years and now I am using a Presonus 24.4.2 Live. I have always used Gates DBX 166, DBX1066 and now the preamp gate/expander in the Presonus Board.
I run my power cord for my Live 4 off the same power as my mixer. I have made a special cable for the front of the stage to accomodate all size stages we are on. I think my cables are 60' long. I have grown from just a basic sound system 3 way with Bi-amp monitors to a sound system with over 10,000 watts of monitors and a front of house system that can push over 30,000 watts. I have never had hiss on my Live 4.
I do know from many years of experience of mixing National acts that your levels are very important. I use the premp signal light on Green and with my voice I have a lot of dynamics and volume on stage I can clip the Red light pretty easily when I sing loud, so I have backed off the input gain. IF you adjust your output gain with you mixer or other effects so they will not clip when you are on your louder dynamics you should be Ok.
I have never used my live 4 with Guitar plug into it and it has seemed to work very well.

IF you have hiss check the following:

Power from same source of mixer or use the ground lift button on the back of the unit.
Check to make sure your phatom power button is off on the channel you are using the Live 4 on?
Check input and output levels to make sure they are not to high. Some inexpensive mixers will have dirty inputs and may give you a hiss anyway.
A better microphone will help also. I use the old Industry standard a Shure SM 58 for durability. (IF using the SM 58 in the rain make sure you tilt the microphone head down so water will not get in you mic.)
Make sure your phatom power switch is off on the Live 4 unless your mic needs phatom power.

I have only had one issue and it was using the Elvis setting. It started to give me feedback because of the deep reverb setting it has on it.
Please use a good graphic or digital equalizers 28 bands or more to adjust you eq on your speakers. I use a DBX Drive rack on my system and I have DBX 2231 graphic equalizers on my monitors and mains.
I would like to let you know that I have played in the rain many of times and I love the switches on the Live 4 because I have only had one time the unit started flashing and acting up from being the rain. I immediately unpluged it and let it dry out for a couple of days and it still works GREAT.
You can see it on some of m pictures on Facebook and myspace. JD and The Bad Boys.
I think I got more than my money out if my Live 4 .
Keep Rockin my Brothers and Sisters of Music!
Rock On,
JD

[Anderton]

Hi JD! Welcome to the forum, and thank you for sharing your expertise.

However...I'd advise not playing in the rain, so you can continue to share your expertise!

[coon]

I have a Vocalist L4. problem is that the PA signal is also coming thru my guitar amp??
I use:
1.Guitar thru to my pedal board with the guitar off to the PA, only to vocals sent to the PA.
I can hear the vocal(s) coming thru my amp as well as any mp3 player that is being played thru the PA.
What gives?? I need help as this often cause feedback with my vocal mic.

[coon]

I have a Vocalist L4. problem is that the PA signal is also coming thru my guitar amp??
I use:
1.Guitar thru to my pedal board with the guitar off to the PA, only to vocals sent to the PA.
I can hear the vocal(s) coming thru my amp as well as any mp3 player that is being played thru the PA.
What gives?? I need help as this often cause feedback with my vocal mic.

[m1westwood]

Originally Posted by coon

I have a Vocalist L4. problem is that the PA signal is also coming thru my guitar amp??
I use:
1.Guitar thru to my pedal board with the guitar off to the PA, only to vocals sent to the PA.
I can hear the vocal(s) coming thru my amp as well as any mp3 player that is being played thru the PA.
What gives?? I need help as this often cause feedback with my vocal mic.

OK, so you are plugging your guitar straight into the "Guitar In", and then running your guitar out from the "Guitar Thru" to your effect pedals, which then go out to the PA system, right? You may want to try turning the guitar volume knob on the VL4 all the way off - no need for that if you are using guitar thru and don't want the guitar coming through the normal outputs.

What guitar are you using? Does it have a Piezo pickup or are you mic'ing it / using a mic pickup? If mic, you may be getting bleed from the PA speakers back into your guitar mic. This could also be the case with the MP3 player - your guitar mic is picking up the MP3 music out of PA speakers.

If you are using a piezo pickup, this will not be an issue - and it might be a bug in the VL4.

[ocheye]

Originally Posted by MIKERUSSELL

you take your foot and press the
"HARMONY" Pedal on your VL4 and instead of a great 3 part harmony
you sound just like Alvin and the Chipmunks.

Danny Ray Thomas

***

I've done the 'chipmunk' bit and the robot and the giant. I'm just clumsy. When I'm wearing trainers I am most likely to do the damage. Wearing narrow shoes or boots definitely helps. It's just nice to know I'm not the only one