DigiTech Vocalist Live 4 (VL4)

[Keithos28]

I played at an acoustic night just recently and the sang 'Paul Simon's "Train In the Distance" a song that is sung in a somewhat low [not high] vocal pitch. Some members in the tiny theatre said they could not hear my vocals. Now I am using the theatre's PA which is run by a very experience PA man/musician. But I am using my VL4 for the song.
This is a situation: when one performer finishes, another one jumps in immediately and sets up in no time and starts playing. So its best you have your!@!@!$% together. My comp\gate setting might have been set to 1pm. Could it have been the Comp\gate? I don't know; after 3 years of having this box, one would think, that I should have mastered it by now. But some of these subtle settings are sometimes forgotten.

[Miket156]

Keith, if you could hear your singing through the monitor(s) clearly, I don't know that I would point the finger at the gate setting. It could be that the sound man didn't have your vocals set loud enough on the FOH system.


Mike T.

[jtarbet2]

Hi everyone,

I'm new to this forum and just purchased the VL4, I have had the VL2 for a couple of years and loved it, just decided to upgrade because of the extra options. I have been reading as much on this forum as I can and taking advantage of everyone's great advice. Thanks to all of you for all of the input I have made some minor adjustments to some of the presets and was able to find a great sound. The only question I have is when playing the guitar, do any of you notice when you step on the harmony switch it effecting the guitar with the harmony sound? I have the guitar effects turned off. I didn't notice it before with the VL2, but I wasn't checking for it either. The only reason I thought to check was there was a previous post about this issue, I have looked back and can't find it again. Any help would be greatly appreciated!!

Thanks,

Jim

[whinersmusic]

Originally Posted by jtarbet2

Hi everyone,

I'm new to this forum and just purchased the VL4, I have had the VL2 for a couple of years and loved it, just decided to upgrade because of the extra options. I have been reading as much on this forum as I can and taking advantage of everyone's great advice. Thanks to all of you for all of the input I have made some minor adjustments to some of the presets and was able to find a great sound. The only question I have is when playing the guitar, do any of you notice when you step on the harmony switch it effecting the guitar with the harmony sound? I have the guitar effects turned off. I didn't notice it before with the VL2, but I wasn't checking for it either. The only reason I thought to check was there was a previous post about this issue, I have looked back and can't find it again. Any help would be greatly appreciated!!

Thanks,

Jim

Hi Jim, I'm not entirely clear what's happening but I think it's this: when you hit the harmony pedal your guitar tone doesn't change but, it suddenly sounds like harmony is now on the guitar sound as well as voice. If that's the case, then you are getting a leak through the mic itself. Are you using an acoustic? Acoustics tend to bleed a bit over the vocal mic because they tend to be loud enough on their own to cut through.

There are a couple of things you could do ... try a feedback buster in the sound-hole of the guitar and also try adjusting the noise gate on the VL 4. If you close the gate up a bit it won't open up for the sound of your guitar but still allow your voice to get through. Instructions are in the manual for this.

If you are using an electric, it's not usually gong to bleed through your vocal mic unless you crank your amp up really loud and it's right behind you - still could be the same issue.

Hope that's it.

[Keithos28]

This is interesting because I too get effects even with the ' effects ' Footswitch on the off position. I dont believe that having the "effects" Footswitch in the off position entirely turns off all effects. On page 12 of the manual it clearly states ' the EFFECTS footswitch activates or deactivates SOME or all of them simultaneously.

[jtarbet2]

Whinersmusic,

Sorry I should have stated I am using an acoustic guitar, and yes when I engage the harmony pedal it sounds like the guitar is bleeding through the mike and is adding harmony to the guitar as well as vocals as you say. I adjusted the gate to -50 and it has almost completely gone away. I may try a soundhole feedback buster like you say just to be safe. Thank you for the great info and advice!! I love this pedal, just have a little tweaking left to do.

Thanks,

Jim

[jtarbet2]

Originally Posted by Keithos28

This is interesting because I too get effects even with the ' effects ' Footswitch on the off position. I dont believe that having the "effects" Footswitch in the off position entirely turns off all effects. On page 12 of the manual it clearly states ' the EFFECTS footswitch activates or deactivates SOME or all of them simultaneously.

Keithos28,

I read that also, but they don't really go into detail on which effects would remain on or off. Haven't found any info on this yet on the forum either. If I run across something I will get back to you on this.

Jim

[Failure Theory]

Originally Posted by jtarbet2

Keithos28,

I read that also, but they don't really go into detail on which effects would remain on or off. Haven't found any info on this yet on the forum either. If I run across something I will get back to you on this.

Jim

Also on page 12 under "Effects Footswitch" we read:

Note that when the Vocalist Live 4 ships from the factory, the Effects footswitch is configured to turn ALL effects (Preamp, Comp/Gate, EQ, Pitch Correction, Lead Effects, Reverberation, Delay, Guitar Mix) on or off, but you can select which effects are turned on or off via the FX Footswitch Control setting in the Utility parameters. For example, you can configure the EFFECTS footswitch to turn all effects on or off, or all effects except distortion, or all effects except reverb. See the Utility Parameters menu on page 23 for more information.

the factory default is to turn them all off. To customize what is turned on/off (affects all presets) see the top of page 23. There are 6 different configurations:

1 FXFS all: All effects are disabled: Preamp, Comp/Gate, EQ, Pitch Correction, Lead Effects, Reverberation, Delay, and Guitar Mix.
2 FXFS most: All vocal effects are disabled except reverb, comp/gate and EQ.
3 FXFS -DIS: All vocal effects are disabled except distortion.
4 FXFS -CMP: All vocal effects are disabled except compression.
5 FXFS -EQ: All vocal effects are disabled except EQ.
6 FXFS -RVB: All vocal effects are disabled except reverb.

I personally would only ever use setting 2... No reason IMO to be turning off reverb, comp/gate or EQ...

[jtarbet2]

Originally Posted by Failure Theory

Also on page 12 under "Effects Footswitch" we read:

Note that when the Vocalist Live 4 ships from the factory, the Effects footswitch is configured to turn ALL effects (Preamp, Comp/Gate, EQ, Pitch Correction, Lead Effects, Reverberation, Delay, Guitar Mix) on or off, but you can select which effects are turned on or off via the FX Footswitch Control setting in the Utility parameters. For example, you can configure the EFFECTS footswitch to turn all effects on or off, or all effects except distortion, or all effects except reverb. See the Utility Parameters menu on page 23 for more information.

the factory default is to turn them all off. To customize what is turned on/off (affects all presets) see the top of page 23. There are 6 different configurations:

1 FXFS all: All effects are disabled: Preamp, Comp/Gate, EQ, Pitch Correction, Lead Effects, Reverberation, Delay, and Guitar Mix.
2 FXFS most: All vocal effects are disabled except reverb, comp/gate and EQ.
3 FXFS -DIS: All vocal effects are disabled except distortion.
4 FXFS -CMP: All vocal effects are disabled except compression.
5 FXFS -EQ: All vocal effects are disabled except EQ.
6 FXFS -RVB: All vocal effects are disabled except reverb.

I personally would only ever use setting 2... No reason IMO to be turning off reverb, comp/gate or EQ...

Thanks, must have overlooked that in the manual. Setting 2 may be usefull to me as well

[whinersmusic]

Hi all ... most of us have explored other items than the Digitech and mentioned them here. I purchased the new Boss VE-20 to give it a whirl and compare it to the VL4. The result is there is no comparison.

That's absolutely true when it comes to harmony - I will say the general EFX for voice are good such as reverb etc. The actual quality of the voice through the unit is very very good BUT, and it is a huge but, the harmony just doesn't cut it.

You don't use the guitar but select your key - just as the TC Helicon first units did. I had an early Helicon and it was complicated enough to have to change key let alone stomp through your song. This unit doesn't even let you stomp (you can ... but you have to pre-select an order and would need to change it anytime you change a set list). It is supremely difficult to adjust settings to where you might want to click through in a song (though there is ample patch space). Not only that, it has one of the worst manuals I've ever seen and that is unusual coming from BOSS.

I've been spoiled with the VL4 that tracks quite well - especially when you get the hang of adjustments. The BOSS unit is half the price but you get half the value when it comes to harmony. I think if they added a guitar based harmony tracking akin to what Digitech and Helicon are doing they would most definitely rise in the ratings. However, if you are a player as well as a singer this unit just won't work in a gig context at all given it's hard to configure order and lack of harmony capacity. If you change key at all in a song the unit just can't follow you. The looper option might have some use and that part is fairly straight forward btw.

Last word is on pitch correction - this worked very very well. I may be tempted to keep it for this and some of it's other general EFX such as "radio" but it's more gear when I have very little room left in my freaking "Band in a Box" thing. The unit is pretty small though which is a plus.

Just thought you might like to know one person's opinion. Maybe at some point all the harmony reviews and threads could come together in one spot. For now I thought I'd place this here for the diehards (I guess we may have some minor issues with the VL4 but, none-the-less, find it pretty good in the end)

[jtarbet2]

Keith,

Thanks for the review, I am new to the VL4, I have had the VL2 for some time, but love all the extras on the VL4. I'm still tweaking with my settings, but I am having a blast with this thing. Good to have a review comparing the VL4 to another product by someone who has them both!!

Jim

[Rickeysound]

Keith - Thanks for that interesting report. I've wondered about that unit.

Having finally retained a real harmony singer, we set aside the VL4, but am still looking for the best vocal effects processor in terms of overall voice sound (reverb, compression, etc.).

We use a Yamaha PA head that has some built-in effects patches, but they are not very good. I've tried my Harmony G and, of course, the VL4, but they don't really add anything much better than the PA head patches. Not looking for pitch correction, so I don't think it has to be key-based.

Any opinion on the best vocal effects processor for that goal?

Andrew

[whinersmusic]

Originally Posted by Rickeysound

Keith - Thanks for that interesting report. I've wondered about that unit.

Having finally retained a real harmony singer, we set aside the VL4, but am still looking for the best vocal effects processor in terms of overall voice sound (reverb, compression, etc.).

We use a Yamaha PA head that has some built-in effects patches, but they are not very good. I've tried my Harmony G and, of course, the VL4, but they don't really add anything much better than the PA head patches. Not looking for pitch correction, so I don't think it has to be key-based.

Any opinion on the best vocal effects processor for that goal?

Andrew

A good question. I can only talk about the 3 units (4 when you add the electro-harmonix I tried - forget about that one).

For EFX - voice only -I think the BOSS unit gets pretty good marks - note again, not for harmony use but for literal, put it down and go, EFX on the voice.

There is no fuss, no muss, no real tweaking needed (good settings for all styles already set but lots of range to change). It's also for vocal side only - no connections possible for keys or guitars through it. The fact it runs on batteries as well is also a good thing.

But, you point out, the PA can and should be able to deliver the same thing! The whole point of having harmony available as well is the real issue for me (and that is not able to be provided by the sound folks or board).

I think the Harmony G also has a good EFX sound easily engaged and the Digitech, unfortunately, is behind the two. Note, the VL 4 is not to a point where I would not use it live as the main portable unit.

As a performer, singer, player the VL 4 still combines all the needs in one place (save for some more EFX for the guitar itself). The fact I've ended up using a blend of all 3 is interesting though. We've said in the forum the needs for a perfect all-in-one. Until that happens, I guess taking the best from all the units is an option - if you can afford the floor space and set up time. When those aren't available to me, I just take the VL 4 and I'm good to go.

[Michael Angel]

Andrew,

You might want to consider looking into the Lexicon MX400.

Michael

[Failure Theory]

Originally Posted by nickstuart

Did some one answered "Can the effects from the guitar effects section be applied to the 'guitar thru' signal?"

I know 1 answer that was no n then 1 line reason that some one please elabrote it.

No, the guitar through is the dry through only. should be in the manual...

When you turn the guitar level knob up the effects you have set affect the guitar signal and come out the main outs (mixed with vocals). The dry still comes out the thru.

This is useful if you want a really simple do-all box. If you want more guitar FX, you would generally want to do the signal seperate which is the reason for the thru. Obviosuly you have something else in mind, but it cannot be done...

[Michael Angel]

Hi everyone. Here is a link to read up on the new VL5:

http://www.vocalistpro.com/product.php?name=live5#desc

[Rickeysound]

Keith and Michael - Thanks for the input. You're right, we have all commented on this forum that we need an "all in one" vocal effects processor. Thanks for the tip on the Lexicon unit, Michael. And I just checked out that link to the VL5 - will be interested to learn what's new and improved.

Thanks, guys!

[valen]

The VL5 looks like a repackaged VL4 in a more rugged enclosure and switches. There seems to be very little new features other than the A/B patch option. There still seems to be no way to update the firmware in the future

[MDLMUSIC]

Originally Posted by valen

The VL5 looks like a repackaged VL4 in a more rugged enclosure and switches. There seems to be very little new features other than the A/B patch option. There still seems to be no way to update the firmware in the future

I think the biggest difference is that you can program in 100 preset settings and call them up using stomp buttons rather than having to bend down in the middle of a show to change the harmony parameters

[valen]

 

 

 

 

 

I think the biggest difference is that you can program in 100 preset settings and call them up using stomp buttons rather than having to bend down in the middle of a show to change the harmony parameters

 

 

 

 

The VL4 has presets as well (I think 50 user and 50 factory preset). No bending down required. (You may have been thinking of another unit. VL2 ?)

[MDLMUSIC]

 

Originally Posted by valen

The VL4 has presets as well (I think 50 user and 50 factory preset). No bending down required. (You may have been thinking of another unit. VL2 ?)

 

You are correct. I use the VL2. I wasn't aware that the VL4 had that capability (not that I would have shelled out the extra bucks for it anyway).

[brynte]

hi! very interesting thread about the vl4

i don´t have one, but knowing that vl5 will be out in december (probably), i´ll probably wait for that
i´m a little confused, cause from what i´ve read, vl4 was released before vl3?
any info about improvements in vl5?
i´m trying to decide between vl5 and tc helicons voice live touch...
what do you guys think?

i´m not doing much live (at least not now), so i´m planning on using it mostly in the studio, adding harmonies and stuff, on allready recorded songs!

i read somewhere in this thread that this is possible with vl4, and i´m assuming/ hoping, this will also be possible in vl5!?

when i read about it, it seemed to be a rather complicated thing to do, though and i´m not too good at those things (connections and stuff), so i would really appreciate it if someone took the time to write a "noobie-guide" (step by step) to exactly how this is done and exactly what kind of gear is needed to make this work properly!

EDIT: i found this guide on page 64
thx for that, failure theory

"I think I know what you're missing. You are unsure of how to route the guitar playback (once it has been recorded) to the VL4 and possibly the vocal playback(once it has been recorded) as well. Is that the questions at hand?

It all depends on your hardware Do you use simply plug the VL4 into the line in on your soundcard? If this is all you have it will not be enough, unless you have a special soundcard. To do what is being talked about most commonly requires a mixer or other IO box. I have a Yamaha MW10 mixer that connects to the comp via USB. It allows 1 stereo channel to be sent at a time. basically it takes all of my channels and mixes them down to one stereo channel. The same is true for sound coming from the DAW to the mixer.

The way I have layed down (or tested laying down) individual harmony tracks without having to play my guitar *or sing* each time is as follows:

1 - 1st I record a dry guitar track (I used acoustic for this test) to a metronome click track. (CH1 in my DAW)
2 - Then I record dry lead vocals. (CH2 in my DAW)
3 - In the DAW I pan the guitar to the left, and pan the vocals to the right
4 - When I play back the song the guitar (left) and vocals (right) come back via usb to the mixer.
5 - On the mixer I route the USB "return" signal to the auxiliary stereo outs (a seperate jack for left and right) on the mixer
6 - the Left out goes to the guitar in on the VL4 and the right goes to the mic in on the VL4 (here is where you may need to send the vocal through a pre-amp or some type of filter before going into the "mic in" on the VL4, however, you can do it without, it will only possibly affect the quality of the harmony vocals)
7 - Then the Stereo Outs on the VL4 go into whatever channel on my mixer. This is where you have to adjust the mix on the VL4 to only have harmonies on, or you could at this point post process the lead vocal to add whatever effects you want.
8 - When you record one of the harmony vocals it will be on CH3 for ex on your DAW. The other tracks will play and send the info to the VL4 while the VL4 will send whatever voice you are recording back to CH3 on the DAW
9 - then you add another CH in the DAW, change the voicings on the VL4, re-record, and continue this process until done and viola! Guitar, lead vocals, and all harmony voices can now be adjusted seperately."


i´ll probably buy a new usb soundcard soon!
rme babyface or tc electronics desktop konnekt 6!
so i guess i also need to buy a usb mixer, to be able to do that!?

[lespaul1964]

Man, I tried to read as much as I could of this thread but here is my thing. First, I sing about 15% of our lead vocals and the third back up.

I have a TC Helicon Voiceworks that I have never been able to set up so that our sound engineer does not complain, or that I find acceptable. I am talking about plain lead vocal sound here, not harmonies. It has quite a bit of hiss for live settings and I have never been able to dial in the reverbs/compression, eq, gain structure, pre-amp to reduce the hiss and have a useable sound and to control my delay, etc. for different songs. This thing is not easy to program, and not too friendly for live use.

So, I am a big Digitech fan. For guitars I use the GSM 1000, and have had several other pedals before that. Add to that the fact that the VL 4 has come down in price substantially and that I like the physical configuration (Effect, harmony, up, down) for live use, and the fact that patches can be saved with harmonies and effects, and accessed easily for different songs.

But at the end of the day the important thing is sound quality. I have never heard or used this unit other than what is on youtube. If I use basic effects moderately, harmonies just slightly for fuller back ups and leave the EQ to the SE, will a SE complain and ask for the unit to be removed from the chain? Too much hiss, or cheap effects?

Or, will the unit put out a stage ready, performance quality signal?

[MDLMUSIC]

Originally Posted by lespaul1964

But at the end of the day the important thing is sound quality. I have never heard or used this unit other than what is on youtube. If I use basic effects moderately, harmonies just slightly for fuller back ups and leave the EQ to the SE, will a SE complain and ask for the unit to be removed from the chain? Too much hiss, or cheap effects?

Or, will the unit put out a stage ready, performance quality signal?

I've used the VL2 a number of times on "big" stages at county fairs and other events. I've never had a problem yet with a sound guy (or gal), but, of course, that doesn't mean I won't in the future.

In fact, for the last gig, I used the VL2 for vocals and ran the guitar out into my RP250 multieffects pedal, then ran that directly into the PA for my guitar sound. The SE recorded everything and gave us a CD, and, except where the SE screwed up (like putting too much reverb on the drums), the sound is really good, at least to my jaded ears.

I would think that most SE's might actually like this setup better since it actually gives them more control over the guitar sound. I have no way of turning up past the full down position of the RP250's built in volume pedal, so the SE pretty much had total control over the volume, whereas if I had a miked amp on stage, I could crank it up as loud as I wanted to.

[Rickeysound]

I've had the opposite experience. I've had soundmen refuse to let me use the VL4 and I've had several other soundmen tell me they could make my vocals sound much better without the VL4. I was relying on it for harmonies at the time, so could not ditch it. But now that we have a harmony vocalist, I've said to good-bye to the VL4.