Members nippyjun Posted October 19, 2012 Members Share Posted October 19, 2012 Hi. What does 4cm refer to? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members drnat1 Posted October 19, 2012 Members Share Posted October 19, 2012 After following this thread for a long time I finally took the plunge and my iPB-10 arrived yesterday! First impressions are very favorable. Sounds really good and the UI is excellent. I previously owned an RP500 and sold it because of the sound quality - could never dial in the sound I was wanting. After a short play yesterday had a sound that I liked & can use. I don't know if this is due to the ease of the UI or is intrinsic to the alog used in this unit? So far have only used with headphones but when have more time shall use it with my PA and 4CM with both my blackstar H5 mini stack and S1046l6 to see how that works. I have mainly bought to tryout different pedals that I wouldn't necessarily have bought and for smaller gigs when I don't want to mess around with my S104 Shall post more findings as I am more familiar with the unit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members drnat1 Posted October 19, 2012 Members Share Posted October 19, 2012 Just wanted to say thanks to all who have contributed to this thread & help with my purchase decision but especially to DigiTechRep & MediaMan09!!! Few thoughts re update & nexus app: Agree with more frequent smaller updates Agree would be nice to get some of the new pedals for iStomp on the iPB-10, even via an in-app purchase - could be a way of adding new amps etc too, esp if helps continued development A pedal board activation of tuner would be good Thanks again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DigiTechRep Posted October 19, 2012 Members Share Posted October 19, 2012 Originally Posted by drnat1 A pedal board activation of tuner would be good Press and hold the currently active preset and it will call up the tuner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members funjunkie27 Posted October 19, 2012 Members Share Posted October 19, 2012 Originally Posted by nippyjun Hi. What does 4cm refer to?Thanks. Four cable method...it is a common approach to using an amp's effects loop with a multi-effects (mfx) board which puts the time based effects in the loop as is generally accepted to be the preferred location. The link below gives more detail. Another alternative is just to run the mfx directly to the amp's guitar input, which is what I use, but it is typically best to have the amp set for a clean tone. The disadvantage is that you don't get to take advantage of your amp's distortion, but if the effects give you an acceptable tone, that isn't much of a disadvantage. I use it directly in for the flexibility though, and I switch it to 4cm from time to time.http://line6.com/support/docs/DOC-2504 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LandonC Posted October 19, 2012 Members Share Posted October 19, 2012 Originally Posted by drnat1 After following this thread for a long time I finally took the plunge and my iPB-10 arrived yesterday!First impressions are very favorable. Sounds really good and the UI is excellent. I previously owned an RP500 and sold it because of the sound quality - could never dial in the sound I was wanting. After a short play yesterday had a sound that I liked & can use. I don't know if this is due to the ease of the UI or is intrinsic to the alog used in this unit?So far have only used with headphones but when have more time shall use it with my PA and 4CM with both my blackstar H5 mini stack and S1046l6 to see how that works.I have mainly bought to tryout different pedals that I wouldn't necessarily have bought and for smaller gigs when I don't want to mess around with my S104Shall post more findings as I am more familiar with the unit I noticed the headphones sounded good last night also. Compared to my 1/4 out to studio monitors they blew my ears off since I had turned up the volume so much for the 1/4. All this stuff takes tweaking no matter what you get. I've had just about all the multi-effect pedals there are at one time or another. The huge selling point for this one is ease of use and configuration via the iPad - that's where they stomp everyone else in the ground. If they can maintain or even get ahead just a little with tone quality and effects - it will be no contest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Guitfiddl Posted October 19, 2012 Members Share Posted October 19, 2012 I've been borrowing an iPad (got one on order, but it's been on back order for a couple of weeks now) so I haven't been exporting my presets and contributing them yet. As soon as I get my iPad, I'll contribute mine. I've got some that I am very impressed with. The iPB-10 sounds fantastic! In the meantime, does anyone have any Police presets? I need one with lots of the typical Andy Summers chorusing on it, as per Message in a Bottle. I'll likely take a stab at making one on the weekend, but if somebody has one I'd love to try it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SpaceAceOne Posted October 19, 2012 Members Share Posted October 19, 2012 Originally Posted by LandonC If they can maintain or even get ahead just a little with tone quality and effects - it will be no contest. I don't agree: Especially the tone quality of the iPB10 is very, very good already and better than most other modeling pedals around IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members paka Posted October 19, 2012 Members Share Posted October 19, 2012 Originally Posted by DigiTechRep We have to scale the iPB-10 pedal algos so that they will only use a certain portion of the CPU cycles that are available. With the iStomp there is no such limitation.Yep, in that configuration you are gaining some sound quality but losing a lot of the routing, and switching benefits of an MFX.Yep, once you get past 3 iStomps it makes sense to just switch over to an 1101, iPB-10, RP1000, or RP500. As I've mentioned in a lot of iStomp threads, the iStomp is really meant for the pedal guy who either wants to have access to the all of the next-gen algos or who needs a swiss-army knife pedal. MFX dudes are looking primarily for flexibility, variety, and value. This is new info (to me at least) that the algos are more complex in the iStomp. Is this more true with some than with others. would you elaborate just a bit? For instance, if you had the ipb and an i Stomp, which effects would benefit most from being offloaded to the iStomp in the effects loop? I would think the verbs/delays, and modulation effects, but maybe not in that order.Is this true for effects only or also for amp models? (not sure the istomp even has models)Also, by "scaling the algos", does that imply that they are statically scaled (don't change), or that they are dynamically scaled and thereby change based on CPU demand or depending on what other effects they are paired with? This could be an important question since if they are dynamic, there could be a benefit to removing effects that remain unused in a patch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ALuomala Posted October 19, 2012 Members Share Posted October 19, 2012 Re: Police (Message in a Bottle preset): I just converted a RP500 preset from here (Digitech Sound community site for RP500). I noticed that the creator (BigEck) took the time to make some important notes on how to use the patch, so I included those in the Description field. There is also a sample MP3 file (I included that link when I uploaded patch to Mediaman, so he should be including that for the iPB-10 Reference page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DigiTechRep Posted October 19, 2012 Members Share Posted October 19, 2012 Originally Posted by paka This is new info (to me at least) that the algos are more complex in the iStomp. Is this more true with some than with others. would you elaborate just a bit? For instance, if you had the ipb and an i Stomp, which effects would benefit most from being offloaded to the iStomp in the effects loop? I would think the verbs/delays, and modulation effects, but maybe not in that order. All of the algorithms in the iStomp have been created without regard to CPU overhead, they are as complex and as large as they need to be. Is this true for effects only or also for amp models? (not sure the istomp even has models) There are no amp models in the iStomp at this time. Also, by "scaling the algos", does that imply that they are statically scaled (don't change), or that they are dynamically scaled and thereby change based on CPU demand or depending on what other effects they are paired with? This could be an important question since if they are dynamic, there could be a benefit to removing effects that remain unused in a patch. Poor choice of words, there is no dynamic or real-time scaling going on in the iPB-10. The effect algorithms used in the iPB-10 are designed specifically for the iPB-10's architecture and processing capabilities; scaled-down in comparison to the iStomp is what I meant. If you remove pedals in the iPB-10 it will not affect performance of any of the algos in any way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SpaceAceOne Posted October 19, 2012 Members Share Posted October 19, 2012 Originally Posted by DigiTechRep If you remove pedals in the iPB-10 it will not affect performance of any of the algos in any way. I guess the opposite is the case - meaning the CPU limit is maxed out with the combinations offered today - which is why we can't have two distortions or delays in the iPB-10 (?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DigiTechRep Posted October 19, 2012 Members Share Posted October 19, 2012 Originally Posted by SpaceAceOne I guess the opposite is the case - meaning the CPU limit is maxed out with the combinations offered today - which is why we can't have two distortions or delays in the iPB-10 (?) No, there is no such limitation. We ran into a serious issue with multiple distortions that we are trying to overcome, but it has nothing to do with CPU usage. Remember, with amp models you can effectively have two distortions already, it is gain structuring for the third instance that is the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MediaMan09 Posted October 19, 2012 Members Share Posted October 19, 2012 Originally Posted by ALuomala Re: Police (Message in a Bottle preset): I just converted a RP500 preset from here (Digitech Sound community site for RP500). I noticed that the creator (BigEck) took the time to make some important notes on how to use the patch, so I included those in the Description field. There is also a sample MP3 file (I included that link when I uploaded patch to Mediaman, so he should be including that for the iPB-10 Reference page. 1) SHARED PRESETS - Will update the site later tonight with your patch, audio link and other patches received during the day. 2) QUESTION on the LEGACY RP PATCHES: - I see we have :502 USER patches from the RP500 Patch Library 355 USER patache ffrom the RP1000 Patch Library 145 DIGITECH patches for the DIGITECH TONE LIBRARY for RP500/1000 etc Rather than jumping between these three sites, does it make sense for me to come up with a single structured library for the ready refrence site for these legacy RP patches???3) QUESTION ON CONVERSION - Apologies if this has been anwered already, but when you say you did an RP500-to-iPB10 conversion, what tools/approach did you end up using? Can you summarize/re-summarize. And how does it differ in approach compared to RP1000-to-iPB10 conversions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ALuomala Posted October 19, 2012 Members Share Posted October 19, 2012 3) QUESTION ON CONVERSION - Apologies if this has been anwered already, but hen you say you did an RP500-to-iPB10 converrstion, what tools/approach did you end up using? Can you summarise/re-summarize. And how does it differ in appraoch compared to RP1000-to-iPB10 conversions? Note: Is anyone else having difficulties with this forum/site??? I can't do a direct quote (have to do it manually in "Quick Reply" and it takes forevvvvvver to load pages in this forum sometimes). I am using both FF and Chrome, and neither one seems to be any faster/better for this forum.The way I have been doing the conversions is fairly simple: 1. I download the patch. 2. I open it with the XML viewer (at http://xmlgrid.net/), and then try to determine if there is a similar patch (i.e same pedals/amp/cab etc) on the iPB-10 and then overwrite that one (i.e Save As, and replace it in the preset bank). 3. I then just try to follow along with the XML version of the RP500/1000 patch (toggling pedals on/off as required, adjusting values, replacing one pedal for another as required). Thus far, I try to keep the chain going as written in the RP500/1000 file: I go from top to bottom, and place the effects, amps, cabs, etc from left to right on the iPB-10.4. I use the iPB010 RP500 Cross Reference made by CanJam when there is a question as to which amp/cab/effect I need to use.5. I test it out on the iPB-10 to see if it is in the right ballpark. This is where there needs to be a caveat: I am a complete rookie, and I have a fairly cheap-ass guitar (Ibanez JetKing4, albeit with upgraded tone/volume pots and a SD JB 59 in the neck position), and I am using headphones, or running a line-in (i.e external source) into a Peavey Vypyr 15 modeling amp (Headphones Out on iPB-10 -> Aux Input on my Peavey) . So my judgement is questionable, and modifications are likely needed to dial in the correct sound.As mentioned about 1 or 2 pages back by Illinidan: - regarding the effects that are turned off, especially on RP500/1000 patches: on those boxes, you can't delete an effect from the chain like you can on the iPB-10, so don't think just because it's there it's an intended part of the sound. When I made patches on those boxes, if I wasn't using, say, a chorus or flanger on a given patch, I didn't much care which one was selected because I had it turned off. This is fairly blatant on the '12 String' patch: it has a Rodent distortion pedal (toggled off, naturally ), so it is somewhat sensible that this effect just happened to be left in there by the creator. But, to my newb ears, some of the effects that are included [on the user and Digitech patches] that are toggled off, I can't determine if they are even meant to be there (i.e they could safely be deleted from the preset). After doing this process about 10 times now (some of my patch conversions aren't ready for prime time), I don't think that there could be a way to auto-magically convert these patches (RP500/1000) to the iPB-10. There would still need to be a certain amount of end-user intervention, whether it was by a GUI interface (replicating the iPB-10 interface perhaps) or simple drop-down windows that one could select, and then it spits out a iPB-10 patch. I suppose a database that tells the program to substitute a RP500 amp/cab/effect with the suitable iPB-10 equivalent (i.e CanJams cross reference guide) is certainly feasible, but that is quite a bit above my pay grade to create. I would like to see something like this created, as it can be a PITA to do this manually on the iPad. One thing that I noticed is that all the amp settings on the iPB-10 (on some of the amps I have ended up using, anyway) don't use any values: you have to eye-ball the correct setting (so if the XML value says 6.5 for Treble, you just have to guess where 6.5 would be for that particular amp. I know it's not rocket science, but it would be nice to see future updates adress this issue, in the interest of being consistent (i.e common look and feel) with the pedals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ALuomala Posted October 19, 2012 Members Share Posted October 19, 2012 BTW, for my Canadian com-padres: if you are looking for a iPad cable (similar to the CableJive dock extender) so that you can have your iPad separate from your iPB-10, I ordered 2 of these cables (eBay.ca link) and they arrived today. I ordered 2 because they are only 3 feet long (couldn't find any 6 ft lengths, other than the CableJive), and they can be linked together. I was hesitant to order the CableJive, due to the vagaries of the shipping/duty/etc costs (and I couldn't find any Canadian sites that carried them). Getting 2 of these ran me about $15 Cdn, and it works very well (charges iPad, but not sure if it will when iPad is below 65%, or whatever the threshold is. I will let my iPad run down to below that level and give it a try and post results of that experiment). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Softman17 Posted October 19, 2012 Members Share Posted October 19, 2012 Is it possible to the fs3x to be configured just as a simple midi pedal by the ipad in a future update ? would be awesome for a lot of apps Is it already the case ? Maybe i miss something in the UI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DigiTechRep Posted October 19, 2012 Members Share Posted October 19, 2012 Originally Posted by Softman17 Is it possible to the fs3x to be configured just as a simple midi pedal by the ipad in a future update ? would be awesome for a lot of apps Is it already the case ? Maybe i miss something in the UI We just implemented this in the last update. It only controls iTunes at this point, but that is just the beginning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MediaMan09 Posted October 20, 2012 Members Share Posted October 20, 2012 Shared Preset Update PatchID 148 - Artist(a): POLICE / Song(s): Message in a Bottle (shared by: ALuomala) PatchID 149 - Artist(a): RANDY RHOADS / Song(s): Believer, I Don't Know (shared by: CanJam) PatchID 150 - Artist(a): SCORPIONS / Song(s): Rock You Like a Hurricane (shared by: CanJam) PatchID 151 - Artist(a): AC DC / Song(s): Highway to Hell (shared by: drewbrothers) PatchID 152 - Artist(a): RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE / Song(s): Killing In The Name Of (shared by: drewbrothers) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members paka Posted October 20, 2012 Members Share Posted October 20, 2012 Originally Posted by DigiTechRep All of the algorithms in the iStomp have been created without regard to CPU overhead, they are as complex and as large as they need to be.There are no amp models in the iStomp at this time. Poor choice of words, there is no dynamic or real-time scaling going on in the iPB-10. The effect algorithms used in the iPB-10 are designed specifically for the iPB-10's architecture and processing capabilities; scaled-down in comparison to the iStomp is what I meant. If you remove pedals in the iPB-10 it will not affect performance of any of the algos in any way. Ok, that clarifies that the iPb does not dynamically scale. My first question was not clearly asked. What I meant was that since the iStomp has "next gen" algorithms, which of those might sound significantly "better" than their iPb-10 counterparts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members drnat1 Posted October 20, 2012 Members Share Posted October 20, 2012 Originally Posted by DigiTechRep Press and hold the currently active preset and it will call up the tuner. Thanks DigiTechRep - shall check this out tonight. Cool! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MediaMan09 Posted October 20, 2012 Members Share Posted October 20, 2012 Originally Posted by MediaMan09 1) ..... I see we have :502 USER patches from the RP500 Patch Library 355 USER patache ffrom the RP1000 Patch Library 145 DIGITECH patches for the DIGITECH TONE LIBRARY for RP500/1000 etc Rather than jumping between these three sites, does it make sense for me to come up with a single structured library for the ready refrence site for these legacy RP patches??? Tons of discussion here on the forum re patch conversions, so I created a new section on the Ready Reference page for it. Can be accessed off the Shared Presets menu (or the Digitech menu) and it includes:(1) links to the 3 individual libraries (RP500 user, RP1000 user and Digitech Tone Library(2) a consolidated listing of all three libraries into a single alphabetic list, with sources shown and links included. About 1000 patches in the list. Its not ideal as users of course have named thier patches inconsistently... and some librariees have artist/song and some just have patchname with no artist....but I developed a hydrid title. At least it's all in one place, and RP500 and RP1000 links are seperated accordingly. This is a one time effort only and I did not attempt any futher cleanup. So for example most Hendrrix patches are under HENDRIX, but a few will be under JIMI as some will jus tbe under thier song name (3) link to CanJams cross reference file(4) a summary of conversion instructions, courtesy of snippets from ALuomala and Illinidan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SpaceAceOne Posted October 20, 2012 Members Share Posted October 20, 2012 Originally Posted by DigiTechRep No, there is no such limitation. We ran into a serious issue with multiple distortions that we are trying to overcome, but it has nothing to do with CPU usage. Remember, with amp models you can effectively have two distortions already, it is gain structuring for the third instance that is the issue. Then what's keeping us from having two delays or a stereo layout (two signal routes with splitters and joiners) for the effect chain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DigiTechRep Posted October 20, 2012 Members Share Posted October 20, 2012 Originally Posted by paka Ok, that clarifies that the iPb does not dynamically scale. My first question was not clearly asked. What I meant was that since the iStomp has "next gen" algorithms, which of those might sound significantly "better" than their iPb-10 counterparts? I'll call out the Fuzzy specifically since it is the one that I slaved over in the iStomp. If you compare the Fuzzy in the iPB-10 to the Fuzzy in the iStomp, they sound pretty different. Also the nuance and quality of the Lexicon reverb in the iStomp is simply not possible in the iPB-10, that algo is huge. However, I'm not going to pretend that this difference is some sort of earth-shattering revelation from the Mount of Tone, it is pretty subtle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DigiTechRep Posted October 20, 2012 Members Share Posted October 20, 2012 Originally Posted by SpaceAceOne Then what's keeping us from having two delays or a stereo layout (two signal routes with splitters and joiners) for the effect chain? Time and priority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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