Members LANSTARR Posted January 20, 2004 Author Members Share Posted January 20, 2004 Originally posted by Is. "Ironic" is a very polite way of putting it. okay and who are you, newcomer...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members platinumtouch Posted January 20, 2004 Members Share Posted January 20, 2004 Wade: Don't know if you were previously registered under another name or not, but for your 3rd post that is damn fine work my man! Covered all the bases... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Analog Kid Posted January 20, 2004 Members Share Posted January 20, 2004 It's against my religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members the_resonator Posted January 20, 2004 Members Share Posted January 20, 2004 Originally posted by audacity works Sampling another's work doesn't really apply to copyrighting, at least in regards to copyrighting an original piece of music.Personally, I wouldn't worry about it so much. what? IT certainly does! Ok, here's the story i was referring to.In the late 70's/early 80's there was this {censored}ing bad ass label in NY called 99 records. IT was WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYY before it's time. There were some great groups in particular on that label:ESGLiquid LiquidBush Tetras who were, arguably, the entire basis for what later started happening with the Beastie Boys, Sonic Youth, and pretty much anything using punk/rock/beat as an outline for experimentation.One particular song to which i can definatively refer to is "white lines(don't do it)"SUgar Hill #465 which is stolen straight from Liquid Liquid's song "Cavern". In this particular case, not in others where to works actually were sampled straight from the record (ll cool J "something like a phenomenon", Tupac, etc..), the song was copied and reproduced almost[/]i exactly. Elements like the congas and bass were exactly the same, note for note. Well, when 99 and liquid tried to get credit, and then, eventually money, they were bled dry by sugar hill to the tune of more than 100 grand in fees (99 was an independent NY label), and sent thugs to damage the storefront and intimidate, threaten, harass, and assault the two or three employees of 99.They finally won about 3 or four years later, about 1984 or 3, to the tune of 660 grand. (99, i mean, they won).To avoid paying that and a number of similar debts and settlements, sugar hill declared bankruptcy, and then the owners of sugar hill formed another company and sold themselves the catalog, thereby bypassing paying the much-needed money to 99 records.It went bust, and the owner (of 99), quite possibly one of the most influential groundbreaking figures in modern rock, period...ed bahlman-dissappeared, with the catalog. MY point? Without Liquid Liquid, hundreds of songs and artists would be either different or the history of rock would be different, but, the real pisser, is that this particular song (white lines) would NOT exist.and, if you can say your song WOULD NOT be the same if you take out elements taken from another song, that appear in teh same sequence, etc.. then you are stealing. If you refuse to credit the original artist or pay him, you are a lolife piece of human garbage...The only reason i even know any of this is because 99 pursued and tried to enforce a registered copyright. While i would venture to say almost none of you know these artists whose work i am referring to, you all know the artists who used it with/without permission and their work and the fact that their careers and in some cases, lives, were wrecked as a result of wholesale theft DOES matter. If you think that whether or not someone uses your work without acknowledging it and claims it as theirs doesn't matter, then i think you and i have a fundamental difference in ideals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue halo Posted January 20, 2004 Members Share Posted January 20, 2004 Great thread guys! For any Canadian members here interested in this more, here's a link to the Canadian Copyright Office Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepSleeper Posted January 20, 2004 Members Share Posted January 20, 2004 Originally posted by blue halo Great thread guys! For any Canadian members here interested in this more, here's a link to the Canadian Copyright Office For the multitude of finns on this board , here's my contribution:www.teosto.fi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jeff Irok Posted January 20, 2004 Members Share Posted January 20, 2004 This has my vote for "thread of the year" - and it's only January! Seriously, it answers a ton of questions that I never went out of my way to get answered, but probably should've. Especially that one about mailing yourself a copy of your stuff. I always wondered what good it was, especially since you have to open it to prove what it is, which would void any 'protection' the sealed package supposedly gave. There are still people advising others to do that. I've seen that advise given as recently as last week. (Not here.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cryptozoon Posted January 20, 2004 Members Share Posted January 20, 2004 Depending on how you want to develop your career, it is not always practical to register your works. For those you interested in music production that is not entertainment related, i.e. music for TV & radio commercials, theme parks, custom music for electronic games, etc: Unless someone has approached you to license an existing song or work, 9 times out of 10 you will be contractually obligated to transfer copyright ownership to your client. If that is the business you're going into, it might be besides the point to register everything you do since you're trying to get someone else to assume ownership of it anyway. And actually, when you start out, you'll be selling it pretty much at fire sale prices. Which is to say, while some of your works might indeed be so brilliant you'll want to protect them, it's also good to get into a frame of mind where you feel like you can spit out fresh ideas at the drop of hat and not place too much value on them or be afraid to let them go. Many established music production companies who cater to this niche have tons of recorded orginal music in reserve just waiting to be used for some purpose - none of it registered. All available for someone to hopefully use on their next Lexus ad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members death adder Posted January 21, 2004 Members Share Posted January 21, 2004 good thread... something I didn't see mentioned is that computer wave files don't typically hold up well it court either, for a couple reasons... if you want to seriously protect your work, register it [see reasons above] ... personally, i've had a friend who had parts he wrote stolen from him - from former band members who are now quasi-famous - and there's nothing they can do about it.. i've also seen someone's video game music get ripped off (about 2-3 "demos" were sent, which were then copywritten by the other party.. )... it's never too early to get in this habbit of protection, but it can easily become too late... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LANSTARR Posted January 21, 2004 Author Members Share Posted January 21, 2004 It is true that it does not have to be cd audio, meaning I can put a bunch of mp3s on a cdr and copyright that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Godsguitarist73 Posted June 7, 2004 Members Share Posted June 7, 2004 Originally posted by toorglick YES! Go look at the copyright office's website. They spell it out in plain English. The mail-it-to-yourself method holds no water at all. I know this thread is old, but I was wondering if anyone could provide a link to this? I couldn't find it on their site, but I probably missed it totally and I'd like to have solid evidence (not that I doubt any you, but so I can convince others ). Thanks!Brandon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Audacity Works Posted June 7, 2004 Members Share Posted June 7, 2004 Originally posted by the_resonator what? IT certainly does!Holy crap, never caught this one! You're certainly right, Resonator, but my comment was taken out of context. When I said "Sampling another's work doesn't really apply to copyrighting, at least in regards to copyrighting an original piece of music", it was in regards to the poster who said he wanted to copyright the idea of sampling a particular artist's recording. If you sample, say, a Michael Jackson guitar riff, unless you make the sample your own (and you'd really have to edit it, which makes sampling it in the first place pointless), Joe Schmo down the street might clear the same sample and there's nothing you can do about it. Now the sampling of Michael Jackson is an entirely different issue, and absolutely applies to copyrighting. For example, the Fugees sampled some Enya song back in '96 or '97 and P. Diddy recently produced a track with the same sample, used in a pretty similar fashion. He certainly owes Enya, but doesn't owe the Fugees a damn thing. Now when I said "Don't worry about it", I meant "Don't worry about it." There are so many musicians out there so freaked out about getting their music ripped off, and it's so incredibly rare these days for it to happen, especially if you're careful. That said, a couple of observations: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kirumamoru Posted June 7, 2004 Members Share Posted June 7, 2004 Something to bear in mind if you register like 10 songs under one copyright.... There's a minimum amount of ''borrowing'' that someone can do from your work that is exempt from copyright protection. I don't know what percentage it is... but it is a percentage. It might be five seconds for every minute, or something like that. I don't know for sure, but the longer the copyrighted work, the more someone can borrow from it with impunity. Kiru Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Audacity Works Posted June 7, 2004 Members Share Posted June 7, 2004 Originally posted by Kirumamoru There's a minimum amount of ''borrowing'' that someone can do from your work that is exempt from copyright protection. I don't know what percentage it is... but it is a percentage. It might be five seconds for every minute, or something like that. I don't know for sure, but the longer the copyrighted work, the more someone can borrow from it with impunity.That's a myth. There's no law (nor a legal precident) regarding "how much" of a piece can be borrowed, at least not quantitatively. It's up to the courts to decide, and is on a case-by-case basis. For example, if you have an obvious five-note motif, and someone rips you off but changes the last note, that 20% certainly doesn't give them carte blanche Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lava Posted June 7, 2004 Members Share Posted June 7, 2004 I filled out the collected works form on the copyright office site and put that into an envelope with one copy of my CD and the fee. About 9 months later they sent me back a statement verifying that my album was copyrighted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kirumamoru Posted June 7, 2004 Members Share Posted June 7, 2004 Originally posted by audacity works That's a myth. There's no law (nor a legal precident) regarding "how much" of a piece can be borrowed, at least not quantitatively. It's up to the courts to decide, and is on a case-by-case basis. Are you sure about that? We talked about copyright law in a course I took on independent music careers this last semester, and this was brought up in there. I'm not saying I flat out don't believe you, but I am skeptical of your claim. Kiru Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mike65 Posted June 7, 2004 Members Share Posted June 7, 2004 http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-register.htmlfor those who cant be arsed to read back through this thread. I wonder what happened to all the boxes/envelopes of material they receive on Capitol Hill? A huge warehouse everything neatly ordered and and referenced in a database? Or a giant pile in a dissused car park? Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Audacity Works Posted June 8, 2004 Members Share Posted June 8, 2004 Originally posted by Kirumamoru Are you sure about that? We talked about copyright law in a course I took on independent music careers this last semester, and this was brought up in there. I'm not saying I flat out don't believe you, but I am skeptical of your claim.Unless something changed very recently. I mean, there are some people who say "Oh, change every fifth note and you're golden", and who knows, maybe that's a safe bet. I'm guessing the class mentioned a good guideline to follow, though to my knowledge, federal law says nothing quantitatively about how much ripping off is legally allowed, which is why this is such a sticky subject. Nor should it, in my opinion, because "notes" do not necessarily make a song. Take "The Humpty Dance" for example. The main hook of the song is its two note sliding bassline. Two notes, that's it. How can one copyright two notes? Easy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Audacity Works Posted June 8, 2004 Members Share Posted June 8, 2004 Originally posted by Kirumamoru There's a minimum amount of ''borrowing'' that someone can do from your work that is exempt from copyright protection. I don't know what percentage it is... but it is a percentage. It might be five seconds for every minute, or something like that. I don't know for sure, but the longer the copyrighted work, the more someone can borrow from it with impunity. Man, now you've got me thinking, Kiru. I sure hope you're wrong. Otherwise:Judge: You're here in court for stealing a thirty second motif from The Doors' "The End". You're only allowed 5%, and the song is seven minutes long, so you're in big trouble.Defendant: Oh, but your honor. I was listening to the extended live version of "The End" when I ripped it off. It's fifteen minutes long.Judge: Oh, well in that case, 5% is more than thirty seconds. Case dismissed!Hmmm... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kirumamoru Posted June 9, 2004 Members Share Posted June 9, 2004 Originally posted by audacity works Man, now you've got me thinking, Kiru. I sure hope you're wrong. Otherwise: Judge: You're here in court for stealing a thirty second motif from The Doors' "The End". You're only allowed 5%, and the song is seven minutes long, so you're in big trouble. Defendant: Oh, but your honor. I was listening to the extended live version of "The End" when I ripped it off. It's fifteen minutes long. Judge: Oh, well in that case, 5% is more than thirty seconds. Case dismissed! Hmmm... LOL. Well, you know, I dunno for sure. I thought the deal was actually for straight up sampling purposes... but hell, I dunno. Maybe it was how long of a segment you could play for demonstration purposes without paying ASCAP or BMI... to be honest, I don't remember for sure.And thanks for the offer, but I'll probably be leaving AZ for good in December, once I finally graduate. Kiru Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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