so... whats the the rompler preset hate?

[Artur Meinild]

Why can't you do a bit of both? I'm pretty confident that I can take any rompler preset and mangle it beyond recognition using effects hardware and software. But I also want to program a great deal of sounds myself. Preset often make a good starting point, and does it really matter if you're modifying it internally in the synth or using outboard effects??? I think not...

[cold truth]

Originally posted by Artur Meinild Why can't you do a bit of both? I'm pretty confident that I can take any rompler preset and mangle it beyond recognition using effects hardware and software. But I also want to program a great deal of sounds myself. Preset often make a good starting point, and does it really matter if you're modifying it internally in the synth or using outboard effects??? I think not...

 

 

of course you can "mangle" them, and it isnt about modifying them internally or outward- if i want a rhode sound, regardless of the tweaks i make in OR out, its still going to be a rhodes sound that i am editing and going for-becauase it wouldnt serve my purposes. not mangled beyond recognition. now, if i wanted to create a completely new sound, i would take that rhodes patch and do some serious tweaking.

 

so, you "can" do both, but it isnt always practical, and a few people in this thread cant seem to see where practicality even matters. basically, they are saying that you shouldnt make the music you are driven to make using a keyboard if it doesnt involve creating completely brandnew synth sounds entirely from scratch- EVEN IF it is nothing like what you really wanted to make and even if it sounds horrible, so long as you created it.

[Outkaster]

I think as a player you really get to experience so much more as a musician than sitting in a room tweaking stuff but that is my opinion. There is awesome shows, backing up international stars, opening for national acts. There is no other experience like it. There are really two sides to the issue and I do not think you have to be one of the other but understand to be a good musician takes time. You have to live in both worlds. that is very hard to do if you want to be any good. For me it comes down to time, how much will I put into learning a synth, verses learning new licks or songs. If you are doing it for a living it is different. There are only so many hours in the day.

[cybermooks]

I think Outkaster is right although I haven't gigged in decades. The thing is there are a finite number of realistic instruments that are emulated by programs. Add to that electric pianos, guitars, etc. and you've pretty much covered the musical spectrum. Even much programming is variations on this stuff. For 95% of the people playing normal music that's what they need.

What is left to program other than weirdness? I say this as a synth-head myself as realistically you aren't going to get a lot of useable sounds that haven't been heard already. Ok for trance, techno, chill, or bass with some variation, but without something more musical to carry it you're just pressing keys and twisting knobs.

Look at the program Atmosphere or all the people using loops. I've never understood the business of using other people's music, or stuff you could do yourself.

[Artur Meinild]

so, you "can" do both, but it isnt always practical, and a few people in this thread cant seem to see where practicality even matters.

 

 

Practicality is a good point. Which is more practical: Finding a preset I like and mangle it with effects, or program a new patch from scratch? Guess that depends on the situation.

I, for one, actually plan to buy the Atmosphere soft module because of the huge number of sounds included. And you CAN tweak those sounds, and I CAN make those sounds unrecognizable if I want. So what's the big F'ing deal???

[GigMan]

Originally posted by Outkaster I think as a player you really get to experience so much more as a musician than sitting in a room tweaking stuff but that is my opinion. There is awesome shows, backing up international stars, opening for national acts. There is no other experience like it. There are really two sides to the issue and I do not think you have to be one of the other but understand to be a good musician takes time. You have to live in both worlds. that is very hard to do if you want to be any good. For me it comes down to time, how much will I put into learning a synth, verses learning new licks or songs. If you are doing it for a living it is different. There are only so many hours in the day.

DEFINITELY +1 for me on that, Outkaster!

I love playing for other folks - I find that on gigs when the crowd is into it, there's nothing like it. When the crowd is dead (even the band is tight and sounds good), it's a real downer and can bring down the energy of the band (whatever band I happen to be playing w/at the time).

[mytee2.0]

[GigMan]

Originally posted by myteeGTi

Ah, yes - Professor John Frink, from Springfield, USA!

[cold truth]

Originally posted by Artur Meinild Practicality is a good point. Which is more practical: Finding a preset I like and mangle it with effects, or program a new patch from scratch? Guess that depends on the situation. I, for one, actually plan to buy the Atmosphere soft module because of the huge number of sounds included. And you CAN tweak those sounds, and I CAN make those sounds unrecognizable if I want. So what's the big F'ing deal???

 

 

um.... sorta. it doesnt offer DEEP tweaking, just basic envelopes and a few filters.

 

atmosphere is very good, i am not bashing it- i love it. i just hope you arent expecting absynth type editing..

[B E T S]

Presets for me are nothing more that starter sounds, simple templates to other sounds. If I want a pad sound I will normally look for a string/brassy type preset and then its all synthesis from there on. Its rare, if ever, that a preset sound will make it onto a track of mine without having being edited at some point.
I often wish the more traditional type synths, even romplers would be released without any factory presets at all, this would be a really steep learning curve for many, but if you're gunna learn to swim, may as well jump in the deep end
I know you can initialize many synths, but it would be a brave move for a company to release a powerful synth or rompler in this initialized state. For me, all serious keyboard/synth players should own atleast one synth with no memories, hehehe, sort the men from the boys Back in the good'ol'days, lol, synths had few or no memory, bet that was fun, but i also suspect this was a far more creative/exciting time to be using what we now call the traditional/vintage synth. Of course, having no memories could be a bitch too, but maybe all of us should consider initializing one of our synths just to see how we get on?

Sure, not everyone is interested in the art of programming, just like many peoples cars can reach speeds in excess of 100mph, but they rarely will ever go over 50mph, but if you like cars and driving, surely you'll wanna put your foot down occassionally even if its on a track.....very similar to synths and synthesis, surely you'll want to really see what the machine is capable of or why else keep buying them?

For me its quite sad to see people who confess to owning many synths but also admit to using nothing but presets, which i guess is what this thread is about. If people were less prone to using presets and actually learn the art of programming the synthesizer they would find they needed far fewer synths and possibly lust for synths less. When they did decide to purchase another synth, they would be in a much better position to buy something they actually knew they needed rather than yet another overlapping and possibly inferior synth, this happens a lot!

How many VA's do you own again?

[Miket156]

Manufacturers would NEVER release a synth without any presets. Most certainly not a rompler. When they go to Trade Shows they want to be able to demonstrate it, and that means having a lot of presets ready to show the variety of things it can do. They wan tto SELL them. Can't do that if you can't demo it.

The whole point of buying an instrument is to make music with it. There are far less people that want to be a programmer than people that want to play.

I certainly agree it's a shame if someone were to buy a fully programmable synth and never program it. But its purpose is to make music, programming is an option. Do it if you want to, or not.


Mike T.

[B E T S]

Originally posted by Miket156 The whole point of buying an instrument is to make music with it. Mike T.

I have been saying this around here for ages.

Saddly, not only do many around here rarely make music, or atleast it seems that way, they also know little about programming, yet ever contented to sit on a forum most days and evenings to chat and lust about their next synth purchase

Although i understand how this happens, just like i understand why presets are a plus for many, but many players/programmers and especially serious musicians, must look on with total disbelief at some of the members spending/collecting/lusting habits here.

[Outkaster]

Originally posted by B E T S Presets for me are nothing more that starter sounds, simple templates to other sounds. If I want a pad sound I will normally look for a string/brassy type preset and then its all synthesis from there on. Its rare, if ever, that a preset sound will make it onto a track of mine without having being edited at some point. I often wish the more traditional type synths, even romplers would be released without any factory presets at all, this would be a really steep learning curve for many, but if you're gunna learn to swim, may as well jump in the deep end I know you can initialize many synths, but it would be a brave move for a company to release a powerful synth or rompler in this initialized state. For me, all serious keyboard/synth players should own atleast one synth with no memories, hehehe, sort the men from the boys Back in the good'ol'days, lol, synths had few or no memory, bet that was fun, but i also suspect this was a far more creative/exciting time to be using what we now call the traditional/vintage synth. Of course, having no memories could be a bitch too, but maybe all of us should consider initializing one of our synths just to see how we get on? Sure, not everyone is interested in the art of programming, just like many peoples cars can reach speeds in excess of 100mph, but they rarely will ever go over 50mph, but if you like cars and driving, surely you'll wanna put your foot down occassionally even if its on a track.....very similar to synths and synthesis, surely you'll want to really see what the machine is capable of or why else keep buying them? For me its quite sad to see people who confess to owning many synths but also admit to using nothing but presets, which i guess is what this thread is about. If people were less prone to using presets and actually learn the art of programming the synthesizer they would find they needed far fewer synths and possibly lust for synths less. When they did decide to purchase another synth, they would be in a much better position to buy something they actually knew they needed rather than yet another overlapping and possibly inferior synth, this happens a lot! How many VA's do you own again?

Can you play Piano or Keyboards at all? Just a question. I know the answer but I want you tell us.

[BOBA JFET]

You guys know who B E T S is, don't you? It's pretty obvious from the handle. Here's my hint - Troll +1.

[cold truth]

Originally posted by Miket156 Manufacturers would NEVER release a synth without any presets. Most certainly not a rompler. When they go to Trade Shows they want to be able to demonstrate it, and that means having a lot of presets ready to show the variety of things it can do. They wan tto SELL them. Can't do that if you can't demo it. The whole point of buying an instrument is to make music with it. There are far less people that want to be a programmer than people that want to play. I certainly agree it's a shame if someone were to buy a fully programmable synth and never program it. But its purpose is to make music, programming is an option. Do it if you want to, or not. Mike T.

 

 

you are making waaaaaay to much sense.

 

well said.

[mytee2.0]

Originally posted by BOBA JFET You guys know who B E T S is, don't you? It's pretty obvious from the handle. Here's my hint - Troll +1.

only the most worthless troll in existence.

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=945671&perpage=20&pagenumber=2

everyone do yourself a favor, add B E T S to your ignore list like me

[B E T S]

Originally posted by Outkaster Can you play Piano or Keyboards at all? Just a question. I know the answer but I want you tell us.

How odd is this then.

Somebody who claims to know an answer but still asks the question

Well, unless you know who this is actually posting right now your question makes little sense.

Can I play Piano or Keyboards?

Piano was my first instrument, guitar my second and then moved onto keyboards and synths. I have lightning fast fingers and hands, my fingers are as long as anyones I have met, which i'm told makes me a natural key player and in answer to your question can i play, i most certainly can. Can I read and write musical notes, no.

Whatever could you possibly be hinting at here? Maybe some of the heavilly sequenced electronic tracks that get posted up here from time to time lead you to question if I/we can actually play or not?

Very odd, but atleast i did oblige you with a reply.

Next question please

[Outkaster]

You answered my question. I knew you would post something stupid I just wanted you to do it yourself. See I can tell about people's skill level by the way they write their post's. Call it instinct or whatever but for you to tell people they should not use presets is just a bunch of BS. I'd be willing to bet you have never played professionally and are young.

[B E T S]

Originally posted by Outkaster You answered my question. I knew you would post something stupid I just wanted you to do it yourself. See I can tell about people's skill level by the way they write their post's. Call it instinct or whatever but for you to tell people they should not use presets is just a bunch of BS. I'd be willing to bet you have never played professionally and are young.

 

 

1. So, you work on instincts.

2. You also ask questions you already know the answers to

3. You call other members posts stupid without admitting your own may also be seen as pointless or stupid.

 

Ever thought of getting a crystal ball and making a living from it.

 

You're good.

 

I did think twice about replying to your original question, now I know for sure your playing games, ADSR type past games, you admitted it yourself in a round about fashion, and besides, only a fool comes on an internet and " works on instinct "

 

Myself, i tend to work on facts.

 

Here's a fact......You seem to know A D S R, although i do not recall ever chatting with you untill the past 24 hours or so. Was it something i posted before that makes you hostile to A D S R? Maybe i hit ballseye with a certain post in the past and you spotted yourself within one of my posts? Only you really know!

 

One last thing..... does it really matter who I am or who you are?

 

Over and out.

[BOBA JFET]

Outkaster goes way back to the early days of HC KSS. Before you or even PB were around. I'm sure he's seen his share of Cambridge buffoonery.

On the other hand, you have put things in perspective. Sometimes I forget just how obnoxious a forum member can truly be. Now that I have you to compare to, this thread seems silly, because we've got a bunch of cool forum members on both sides arguing with each other. And then we have you, the new, improved Troll +1.

[B E T S]

Originally posted by BOBA JFET Outkaster goes way back to the early days of HC KSS. Before you or even PB were around. I'm sure he's seen his share of Cambridge buffoonery. On the other hand, you have put things in perspective. Sometimes I forget just how obnoxious a forum member can truly be. Now that I have you to compare to, this thread seems silly, because we've got a bunch of cool forum members on both sides arguing with each other. And then we have you, the new, improved Troll +1.

 

 

In that post I truly believe there is a compliment hidden away somewhere, I really do. Maybe its because I would rather fight from one corner than all corners at once!

 

Boba Jfet, the self confessed argumentive member! I know you very well, you sometimes come across as confident, at other times not so, rarely seeing things from a musicians perspective, or atleast that is how see you. One moment you may be polite, the next you pull no punch's whilst often finding yourself squabling with members.

 

 

[keyman_sam]

Originally posted by B E T S How odd is this then. Somebody who claims to know an answer but still asks the question Well, unless you know who this is actually posting right now your question makes little sense. Can I play Piano or Keyboards? Piano was my first instrument, guitar my second and then moved onto keyboards and synths. I have lightning fast fingers and hands, my fingers are as long as anyones I have met, which i'm told makes me a natural key player and in answer to your question can i play, i most certainly can. Can I read and write musical notes, no. Whatever could you possibly be hinting at here? Maybe some of the heavilly sequenced electronic tracks that get posted up here from time to time lead you to question if I/we can actually play or not? Very odd, but atleast i did oblige you with a reply. Next question please

Can you post an mp3 of a song where you demonstrate your skills? like, where you play lighting fast.

i'm asking only because i am a noob and wanna see how lighting fast playing sounds.

I'd have some respect for your skills/talent/playing but i wouldnt have any respect towards your attitude.

[BOBA JFET]

Originally posted by B E T S In that post I truly believe there is a compliment hidden away somewhere, I really do. Maybe its because I would rather fight from one corner than all corners at once! Boba Jfet, the self confessed argumentive member! I know you very well, you sometimes come across as confident, at other times not so, rarely seeing things from a musicians perspective, or atleast that is how see you. One moment you may be polite, the next you pull no punch's whilst often finding yourself squabling with members.

 

 

You mis-punctuated my name. It's BOBA JFET, all caps. If you can't remember, you can just highlight my name (it's to the left of my posts, on the upper left-hand corner), and either go to Edit->copy, put your cursor where you would like my name to appear (and click), and then go to edit->paste, or you can highlight my name (again, upper left-hand corner of my posts), hold down the ctrl button and simultaneously press the "c" key (ctrl+c), position your cursor where you would like my name to appear, and ctrl+v.

 

It's just that simple!

[B E T S]

Originally posted by keyman_sam Can you post an mp3 of a song where you demonstrate your skills? like, where you play lighting fast. i'm asking only because i am a noob and wanna see how lighting fast playing sounds. I'd have some respect for your skills/talent/playing but i wouldnt have any respect towards your attitude.

I agree 100% that its very easy for posts to come across as arrogant and with attidue. But there are times when the reader could be accussed of reading in a very negative way. Not a subject I really want to chat or debate though, all I can say is be balanced when reading members posts, read many of their posts before jumping to any conclusions and do not confuse the moniker with a real person.

The lightning fast quote is a little bit tongue in cheek, not meant to come across as elitist or something

I do have fast fingers and better than average playing tecnique and I can play a bit too, but I have little to prove and do not come here for respect, if i did I would post in a far more " less attitude " kind of way.

[Outkaster]

do have fast fingers and better than average playing tecnique and I can play a bit too, but I have little to prove and do not come here for respect, if i did I would post in a far more " less attitude " kind of way.

 

 

You do come here for respect. I can tell you do otherwise you would not go on defending your actions. Come on man grow up a little.