Jeebus is banned?

[Fear My Potato]

I'm a long time member, I'm not going to read over 200 replies to figure out what the end result is?

 

If jeebus is banned {censored} this lol

[Yoozer]

Short:

 

He got banned.

He got reinstated.

He managed almost immediately to screw up again.

He got banned again.

 

You don't have to read 200 replies, but it helps if you just quickly scan the thread.

[Fear My Potato]

Alright, I did my best to read both threads in question. The one where dB makes his case, and the one where Jeebus allegedly does something so ghastly he must be forcibly prevented from ever saying a word here again.

 

Let's back the bull{censored} truck up.

 

People are claiming Jeebus was plugging a product he might have involvement in. I see little to no evidence for this accusation. He was no more excited about this Neko that Outkaster or I get over Hammond clones. Or does someone want to claim that we've been plugging Hammond?

 

The central accusation to this whole deal is that he brought up the Oasys again. Well, it is OBVIOUS that the Neko is on the same marketting vein as the Oasys...so if several months later we can't be permitted to calmly and rationally bring the thing up, censorship has gone over a line.

 

A lot of you are new to this forum. A lot of you weren't here during the Oasys crap, or the election crap from a year ago, or all the other crap over the several years I've been here. This includes you, Dave. I've seen all kinds of discourse on this board and I've gotten an idea of the ebb and flow around here. The Oasys thing isn't a huge issue anymore...period. That Neko thread wasn't going to explode into ten other Oasys threads like used to happen. The hype is over and it's been so discreditted that few (even Jeebus or DanatKorg) would stay on the issue for too long, because they know when the forum's attention swings back around to it, people won't be happy and some {censored} will start to fly. For this reason of peer social pressure (NOT MODERATION) this issue is naturally regulated by the community. We needed help to get over the initial hype hump, but we're over it now, let the fire starve itself of oxygen.

 

From what I've seen in the past, and what I've seen on this issue, Jeebus saw a new product and in discussing it, made an off-hand remark about the Oasys, which is expected since the two are very similar products marketted at the same crowd. The usual possy of Danatkorg and Martin Hines jumped in, pulling Jeebus away from the Neko and more towards the Oasys issue. Okay, so three assholes get themselves going in an isolated thread? Jeebus looks like he was actually trying to get talking about something else and was sidetracked onto the Oasys debate by people that Harmony Central (a Musician's Friend service) seems to let get away with things. I think it's worse that Jeebus was sidetracked onto a tabboo discussion than it is that he mentioned the Oasys.

 

There's little evidence for a lot of the claims flying around, especially that Jeebus is plugging the Neko because he works for the company. If you people want something backed up by evidence, here you go:

 

Korg is in bed with Musician's Friend, who owns Harmony Central. dB was brought over by the MF people, who don't like to see products they're selling (or companies they're endorsing) being slammed. We've seen this issue happen in other forums, so we know companies shooting down negative discussion happens. We've seen how MF and Korg run their {censored} (like assholes). We've seen who is being targetted in these bannings and acts of censorship (they're only on one side of the issue).

 

If you want my take, there's something corporate going on here.

 

A lot of us don't think censorship or banning was needed, and I'm one of them.

 

"Unfortunately, I do.

 

Since none of you (other than Jeebus, of course) have seen all of the attempts at communication that I have made on the subject (several of which Jeebus chose to just ignore), I respectfully suggest that maybe you don't have a complete picture here.

 

I mean, it'd be one thing if I went around banning people all of the time, but that's just not the case, is it?

 

dB"

 

That's wonderful if you think it's warranted in this case, but if it turns out most of us don't, well...have fun trying to moderate this place, because we won't make it easy.

 

No we haven't seen all the attempts at communication, but I'd venture to bet that if I said I was willing to you'd refuse to share them all since many are private, right? We don't have the full picture and we never will, because the possibility of agenda is too real. Even if you showed us all the "real" pms that went back and forth, the possibility of forgery or that you guys are withholding pms is aways there.

 

In the end, we NEVER know if there's corporate agenda going on. We don't know all the words said, but even if we did we wouldn't know what the real situation is because corporations (as they've shown us before) will go to ANY length to snuff criticism of their products. Stepping on an internet forum is not beyond the realm of realistic.

 

But, here's my big thought:

 

I didn't see anything out line in those threads. It could've gotten out of line in the future, but innocent until proven guilty. If a thread hasn't crossed the line yet, don't take preemptive action in the form of censorship or banning.

 

I'm not hiding behind monikers or saying anything that isn't true (that I know of).

 

So let's see what has to be said on this, and without sounding too full of myself dB, it better be good.

[Geoff Grace]

Fear My Potato, you're focused on the wrong banning. Dave essentially banned Jeebus to get his attention. It worked, they talked, and Jeebus was promptly reinstated.

 

The current ban has to do with Jeebus's posting of a cartoon about "incestuous kiddie porn" in the Political forum. It is unclear exactly who is choosing to ban him over this, but "All the HC admins know about it," implying that the matter is now out of Dave's hands.

 

Source

 

Best,

 

Geoff

[Magpel]

Re: corporate ventroliquism, I've been around db-moderated forums long enough to highly doubt that this banning had anything to do with some HC-wide policy of maintaining a corporate-friendly environment. I don't necessarily agree with Dave's decision, in fact I favor the organic self-moderating model on the whole, but this trend toward painting Bryce as a corporate straw-bogey man just doesn't make sense.

 

Really, you guys who seem so savvy and ironic and cogent and thoroughly contemporary the rest of the time on you, is it lost on you that a frenzied, polarized OASYS Problem here at HC is a wonderful thing for Korg? Aren't you aware that all pub is good pub? That every Coke commercial is a Pepsi commercial too? Anything that keeps OASYS in the fore of this community's consciousness is advantageous in the long run, especially when the critics are as self-exposing as Jeebus was. After the 131st anti-OASYS tirade, even the most sheepish consumer dullard begins to suspect that Jeebus' problem is really his own...

 

Anyway, my point is that Korg doesn't fear your potato! Korg wants your potato vegetating on OASYS, pro or con, as much of the time as possible! In this sense, Jeebus was an unwitting corporate agent (but in his naked advocacy of Warez, less so; in that sense, he was a genuine anti-corporate crusader, albeit one with a funny definition of "corporate.")

 

On the front page of this forum right now, 19 threads reference specific gear, 5 more reference classes of gear ("drumpads," etc.) leaving maybe 4 or 5 threads for other matters (two of which concern Jeebus , which we'll call meta-threads...)

 

The point? With or without db's corporate influence, all of the good little Guevaras at HC (myself included) have two things on their minds: revolution, and gear. Have you read anything by Thomas Frank? You might want to take a look.

 

There ARE corporate conspiracies out there, but to gain any cred with me, they must meet some basic conditions of logic, threat-risk-reward analysis, and common sense. This don't. If its is comforting to think of Jeebus as a free speeech martyr, then by all means...

[Magpel]

oops

[droolmaster0]

 

Originally posted by Yoozer Short: He got banned. He got reinstated. He managed almost immediately to screw up again. He got banned again. You don't have to read 200 replies, but it helps if you just quickly scan the thread.

 

 

He didn't "screw up". That is some nice spin. What happened was that he posted a cartoon on the political forum that some moderators decided to censor, and figured that it was so dangerous that they must ban him again. Oh, and they also decided that the adults on this forum would be harmed by the cartoon.

 

The cartoon isn't offensive. The humor is somewhat sick. There is a difference.

[Yoozer]

 

Originally posted by droolmaster0 He didn't "screw up". That is some nice spin.

 

Not intentional, then. When someone gets unbanned and then banned again almost directly I personally call that "screwing up".

 

I haven't seen the cartoon in question and neither have I had a hand in banning Jeebus again.

[MartinHines]

 

Originally posted by Fear My Potato People are claiming Jeebus was plugging a product he might have involvement in. I see little to no evidence for this accusation.

 

-- No one really believes Jeebus has any involvement with OpenLabs

 

 

Originally posted by Fear My Potato The central accusation to this whole deal is that he brought up the Oasys again. ...pulling Jeebus away from the Neko and more towards the Oasys issue.

 

-- For whatever reason, Jeebus just can't stop posting about the OASYS. His "neKo" thread, which he initiated, is a clearly veiled attack on the OASYS.

-- He wasn't "pulled" into talking about the OASYS. He alone brought up the OASYS.

------- In his first thread: "I can't think of a single workstation that offers this degree of flexibility."

------- In his second post: "it's cheaper than the O-you-know-what"

 

Regarding his most recent banning, perhaps you should read all of the appropriate threads. Jeebus himself admits he "was a moron for posting anything even remotely offensive"

 

 

Originally posted by subeeJ/Jeebus I was surprised at first, being banned for posting something edgy in the POLITICAL FORUM, no less...but it makes perfect sense. Ever since the beginning of the Oasys bull{censored}, Scott and Skunks have had their trigger fingers ready. I should have realized this, and was a moron for posting anything even remotely offensive. Live and learn, but I suppose this was inevitable

 

 

As far as I can tell, his most recent banning was completely out of dB's control.

 

 

Originally posted by Dave Bryce I spent the better part of an hour talking to Jeebus on the phone yesterday before readmitting him, and I thought everything was cool - as a matter of fact, I really enjoyed the conversation. Then, last night, Jeebus posted a pretty bad cartoon in the political forum. It was reported by multiple people and sent to thread jail by one of the other admins (for those of you who don't know, threads are never deleted - they're moved to a forum only admins can see in case we need to refer to them later) before I even saw it. Not surprisingly, this thread was reported by several people. All the HC admins know about it. Suffice it to say that it's more than likely that he'll now probably be permanently banned as a result of this. Obviously, I'm more than a little bummed right now...

 

[droolmaster0]

 

Originally posted by Yoozer Not intentional, then. When someone gets unbanned and then banned again almost directly I personally call that "screwing up". I haven't seen the cartoon in question and neither have I had a hand in banning Jeebus again.

 

 

Well, it puts a spin on it which presupposes that the person did something wrong. Kind of like if a person was unjustly arrested, and the news reported that he had 'screwed up'.

 

Good propaganda, but it ain't the news.

[SirGarrote]

 

.....^.....

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-G

[Counterpoint]

Originally posted by SirGarrote .....^..... .....||..... .....||..... -G

 

So nice to have a soloist from the boys' choir performing for the president!

 

[Fear My Potato]

I support a ban based on kiddie porn. Dave, you have my apology...I thought this was all over an oasys thread (which is the only reason I brought that {censored}ing topic up anyway).

 

And by the way Martin, saying "I don't know of a single workstation that offers this degree of flexibility" is not an attack on the oasys. It's not saying the oasys has no flexibility, or insufficient flexibility, just that the Neko is the top of the line. That's a perfectly fair statement to make, that is not offensive nor offensive...merely a statement of personal belief regarding the Neko. It does not infer anything regarding other boards. Your Defensive Complex built out of this Oasys thing has you reading between the lines way more than you should be, dig?

 

His second post also doesn't attack the Oasys, he's comparing it to the Oasys as well as several other products. But once again, he is stating his belief on the Neko that it is the best out there, not that the Oasys is not good.

 

See, his statements are called positive. If he were attacking anything, they would be negative. You are assuming that he is saying negative things about the Oasys based on positive statements regarding the Neko.

 

I mean...cmon man

[Fear My Potato]

Originally posted by steadyb Tracy McGrady scored 30 of his 35 points in the second half and Yao Ming added 18 points to lead the Houston Rockets over the New Jersey Nets 99-91 on Saturday night.

 

So you're saying that threads addressing forum issues are going to be considered "off topic"? We've always considered them "on topic" since I've been here, but I guess that wouldn't mean anything

 

Watch what etiquette you step on.

[droolmaster0]

 

Originally posted by Fear My Potato I support a ban based on kiddie porn.

 

 

there was no kiddie porn.

[wetwareinterface]

so we cant say the oasys sucks?

or that it's good?

 

what the hell did i miss?

 

so to see if i got this right?

we cannot get into a heated debate about particular pieces of gear anymore without being banned? wtf?

 

that's a major purpose of a forum, to debate/discuss either calmly or heatedly a subject of interest to those in the forum. so if i bring up a product and argue either for or against it i am going to be banned? if this is truly the case, wow this forum has turned into a {censored}hole.

 

and i don't care what happened in the past or how out of hand anything got. you cannot have a forum based on music gear and then ban people because they are warning others away or advocating some piece of gear. that is completely stupid.

 

awaiting a reply from the db.

[steadyb]

 

Originally posted by Fear My Potato Watch what etiquette you step on.

 

 

My dog etiquette once. The next day my neighbor stepped on it.

[wikwox]

I have decided to accept Jeebus as my personel saviour. Or pehaps Frank Zappa.

[MuzikB]

Originally posted by wetwareinterface so we cant say the oasys sucks? or that it's good? what the hell did i miss? so to see if i got this right? we cannot get into a heated debate about particular pieces of gear anymore without being banned? wtf? that's a major purpose of a forum, to debate/discuss either calmly or heatedly a subject of interest to those in the forum. so if i bring up a product and argue either for or against it i am going to be banned? if this is truly the case, wow this forum has turned into a {censored}hole. and i don't care what happened in the past or how out of hand anything got. you cannot have a forum based on music gear and then ban people because they are warning others away or advocating some piece of gear. that is completely stupid. awaiting a reply from the db.

 

I was going to just blow this all off but have have something to get of my chest.

 

I think that this is being so blown out of proportion that it just ain't funny. (The Oasys thing that is)

 

Folks have been giving the positives and negatives about gear here for years. There just needs to always be a civil tact about it. You all know how I fell about Reason but I don't create threads about how Reason sucks or jibe in on every Reason thread to point out that I don't like it. That just wouldn't be the civil thing to do.

 

Several people here IMHO just went overboard and crossed that "Civil" line. A line that the moderators here are OBLIGATED to maintain. If you don't understand what that line is, then I suggest you get a bit introspective and look in the mirror.

 

Difference of opinion is the heart of these forums. It's part of what makes this place one of the online "Cheers" bars, but like "Cheers" discussions should remain jovial and civil.

 

Remember that representatives of the synth companies we buy from read these forums. Do you think that it's really going to help you to have a voice in future products when people bash stuff they haven't even laid their hands on yet? or if it's seen on this forum that they can't act right?

 

This place is a knowledge center and and a place to have a voice. It should be respected like any library or podium.

 

I'm not directing this at you Wetware. It's just that what you posted prompted me to get this off my chest.

[Fear My Potato]

 

Originally posted by steadyb My dog etiquette once. The next day my neighbor stepped on it.

 

 

Yeap, just as I figured.

 

Well, thanks for coming here...you add a lot.

[Yoozer]

 

Originally posted by droolmaster0 Well, it puts a spin on it which presupposes that the person did something wrong.

 

Okay, I'm pretty tired of these underhanded accusations.

 

It's all good and cosy to rage against the machine, but please understand the following.

 

My moderator title means jack {censored}.

 

I can't ban people.

I can't delete posts.

I can't edit posts.

I can't see people's IP addresses.

I can't do anything outside of KSS.

 

In other words, when pictures are removed, people are censored, what-have-you it's not me doing it and 99% of the time not me being asked for it.

 

It's a glorified 'Senior Member' tag, that's what it is. This is thanks to the voting process that took place a year and something ago to clean up the crapflood of OT:Pol stuff.

 

This is also why I take place in discussion and not simply shut up because I have to stay on neutral ground. I'd do that if I actually had some weight to throw around; since I don't my opinions mean just as much as anyone else's.

 

I can only move threads to other forums (and even this is a rare occasion), merge threads for the sake of atomicity (like the 'double' MO6/8 thread), and change thread titles (and this is usually done to either correct spelling or give ambiguous/vague thread titles a better meaning so they are more relevant when someone's doing a search.

 

I get virtually no PM's by Dave or Scott or anyone else and if I do, it's to ask me for my opinion.

 

Effectively, when our (Kiru too) positions got into effect, it has done nothing to clean up the crap. I simply merged all the threads in one huge nice tarpit and that was it. Nothing got deleted. Nothing got censored. ADSR and her zillion heads didn't get stopped.

 

The last time I got actually accused for censorship was because a long-standing member posted a rather unmistakeable picture of a dead body that was partially decomposed and swollen, with bulging eyes.

 

Perhaps you and I could agree on the offensiveness of that?

 

In order to "think of the children" I moved (not deleted) the thread so a moderator with more power could clean it up. The reason I did this was to protect this member since another moderator with regular powers would've not thought twice to hand out a ban and with a lot less mercy, senior, longstanding, respected not being factors. I still get bothered over the amount of flak I received over this.

 

Now, this whole stuff about free speech, censorship (all kinds of things that are simply not applicable to an online forum; it's a benevolent dictatorship at best) appears again and as an extra bonus there is corporate influence. Worse, this means anyone with a Moderator title is automatically a drone for the big Borg^H^H^H^H Korg imperium and suspect.

 

I'm pretty tired of it, really.

 

Kind of like if a person was unjustly arrested, and the news reported that he had 'screwed up'. Good propaganda, but it ain't the news.

 

Again: any thoughts about this forum being a democracy or a constitutional republic are pretty but do not match reality. You might want it to be like that, but that's not the way it works.

 

Before you start again: I can't help this either and it's the way messageboards always have worked. The guy who owns the land is the guy who owns the server space and software running on it. The guy who makes the rules is the guy who has control over the database. This only has to be a single person and in most cases, it is.

 

To give that power out of hand is almost ridiculous - who pays for the land? A democracy would mean that you could get voted out of having access to your own server which you paid for with your own money.

 

I used to like this forum a lot, but a good job has been done to ruin the fun. I don't know - I'm just a guy who likes synthesizers a lot and who likes them a lot more than people's religious beliefs or political affiliations.

 

I don't even have anything made by Korg in my studio.

 

/end rant.

[Birdienumnum]

Originally posted by wikwox I have decided to accept Jeebus as my personel saviour. Or pehaps Frank Zappa.

 

I accepted Zappa & the Mothers into my holy altar o' love back in 1966 when I bought their first album, Freak Out. I was nine.

[Fear My Potato]

Originally posted by Birdienumnum I accepted Zappa & the Mothers into my holy altar o' love back in 1966 when I bought their first album, Freak Out. I was nine.

 

You freaked out at age nine?

[Birdienumnum]

Originally posted by Yoozer ADSR and her zillion heads didn't get stopped.

 

That's a wonderful metaphor! ADSR really IS Ghidrah the Three-Headed Dragon (aka King Ghidorah). Or is she/they Orochi the Eight-Headed Dragon? Hmmm?

[Birdienumnum]

Originally posted by Fear My Potato You freaked out at age nine?

 

Yes indeedly. Very liberal Hollyweird parents. I marched in the Century City protests around that age and nearly got beaten by da cops! And I gave an FBI agent the finger and he nearly went after me (but his friend restrained him). Ah, those were the days...when young people were united against the old rotting 50's culture and we were busy changing the world with the 60's sexual revolution, civil rights marches, women's liberation, eastern philosophy, alternatives to the white male slavemaster's drugs of choice, blah blah...