Members belair billybob Posted February 21, 2006 Members Share Posted February 21, 2006 Are these things used much anymore? Or is the signature sound of a rotating speaker replicated digitally? I don't play keys, but that whirling sound of a B3 intrigues me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mate_stubb Posted February 21, 2006 Members Share Posted February 21, 2006 Originally posted by belair billybob Are these things used much anymore? Or is the signature sound of a rotating speaker replicated digitally?I don't play keys, but that whirling sound of a B3 intrigues me. Yes. Imitated but never replicated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Outkaster Posted February 21, 2006 Members Share Posted February 21, 2006 The real thing will almost always be used by the pros. Leslie Speakers are in short supply because there was not as many made as Hammond organs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members suitandtieguy Posted February 21, 2006 Members Share Posted February 21, 2006 Originally posted by Outkaster Leslie Speakers are in short supply because there was not as many made as Hammond organs. ah yes, but new leslies are made every day. new tone generator Hammond consoles are not. something to think about for the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Outkaster Posted February 21, 2006 Members Share Posted February 21, 2006 Originally posted by suitandtieguy ah yes, but new leslies are made every day.new tone generator Hammond consoles are not.something to think about for the future. Very true but the new Leslies componet wise are a little different so many people do not want an A series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wikwox Posted February 21, 2006 Members Share Posted February 21, 2006 I've got two, a 145 for gigs and a 147 hooked to the A100 at home. Love 'em. But lately I use a Rotosphere pedal for the same reason the A100 stays home. The main complaint on the new Leslies is they don't use the old two motor system and the speed-up/slow-down rate is wrong. I can't say, I've never heard 'em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members b3guys Posted February 22, 2006 Members Share Posted February 22, 2006 ah yes, but new leslies are made every day. new tone generator Hammond consoles are not. something to think about for the future. Very true but the new Leslies componet wise are a little different so many people do not want an A series. Interesting topic, and here's my disclaimer up front: I am an authorized Hammond ProLine & Leslie Dealer, and I answer these types of questions on a weekly basis. There is most definately a 'feeding frenzy' for the 'popular' model Leslie Speakers. Just last week I had 15-20 emails/phone calls from people looking for a Leslie, yet not one was looking for a Hammond organ. That's a lot of Leslie inquiries even by my metrics. One common question I get centers around "which is better, vintage vs. new"? Like many other instruments, there is certainly a strong preference for anything vintage - most inquiries I receive are no different. However, blindfold tests often have a way of leveling the preference playing field, often much to the surprise of the listeneners. Here's something for consideration: Tony Monaco, Joey Defrancesco and Aaron Thomas are world class organists who need no introduction. I, like many of you, have heard them on multiple occasions, each time playing thru 'new' Leslies. I have yet to sit there listening thinking, "if only they were using all vintage gear". Yes, I know they have endorsement deals with Hammond-Suzuki, get free gear, etc. Free gear or not, I doubt they would use any products which they felt compromised their sound, or reputation as well. Everybody hears things differently and has equipment preferences that may or may not align with yours - musical style also comes into play. Bottom-line: best to consider your research info, but ultimately let your own ears be the judge on what gear works best for you. Whether vintage or new, you'll certainly enjoy a real Hammond and/or Leslie. Good luck! B3GUYS.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fdelvecchio Posted February 22, 2006 Members Share Posted February 22, 2006 Use my 122 daily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vintagekeys Posted February 22, 2006 Members Share Posted February 22, 2006 i love all leslie's even the pro line series like the 710 and 760. Man those things scream!!!!! There are some good sims out there, but I have to admit there is nothing like the real deal. I think even the new 122A are pretty nice, I used to play on one at one of the churches I played at some years back. To me it depends on how good or well maintained your amp is (Tubes, capacitors, circuits, etc) as well as the speakers in the leslie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Outkaster Posted February 22, 2006 Members Share Posted February 22, 2006 Originally posted by b3guys Interesting topic, and here's my disclaimer up front: I am an authorized Hammond ProLine & Leslie Dealer, and I answer these types of questions on a weekly basis. There is most definately a 'feeding frenzy' for the 'popular' model Leslie Speakers. Just last week I had 15-20 emails/phone calls from people looking for a Leslie, yet not one was looking for a Hammond organ. That's a lot of Leslie inquiries even by my metrics. One common question I get centers around "which is better, vintage vs. new"? Like many other instruments, there is certainly a strong preference for anything vintage - most inquiries I receive are no different. However, blindfold tests often have a way of leveling the preference playing field, often much to the surprise of the listeneners. Here's something for consideration: Tony Monaco, Joey Defrancesco and Aaron Thomas are world class organists who need no introduction. I, like many of you, have heard them on multiple occasions, each time playing thru 'new' Leslies. I have yet to sit there listening thinking, "if only they were using all vintage gear". Yes, I know they have endorsement deals with Hammond-Suzuki, get free gear, etc. Free gear or not, I doubt they would use any products which they felt compromised their sound, or reputation as well. Everybody hears things differently and has equipment preferences that may or may not align with yours - musical style also comes into play. Bottom-line: best to consider your research info, but ultimately let your own ears be the judge on what gear works best for you. Whether vintage or new, you'll certainly enjoy a real Hammond and/or Leslie. Good luck!B3GUYS.com I do a little work for a dealer too. One problem is cost. Hammond's proline is really institutionally focused. Look at the costs for the new B-3, XK System, XK-3 and even the Leslies. They are not that accesible to the general public. Even the Xk-3 is kind of rare to see in most peoples rigs. Hammond-Suzuki is such a small company and even dealers costs are outrageous on some stuff. Getting parts and new amps is so expensive that profit margins are not that great for the new stuff. What Hammond wants is to get rid of all the old Tonewheels out there (that will never happen) to increase sales on new gear. You are going to get people that want vintage stock all the time. There are people that will not even touch an old organ with Trek II pre-amps or mods on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members b3guys Posted February 22, 2006 Members Share Posted February 22, 2006 Originally posted by Outkaster I do a little work for a dealer too. One problem is cost. Hammond's proline is really institutionally focused. Look at the costs for the new B-3, XK System, XK-3 and even the Leslies. They are not that accesible to the general public. Even the Xk-3 is kind of rare to see in most peoples rigs. Hammond-Suzuki is such a small company and even dealers costs are outrageous on some stuff. Getting parts and new amps is so expensive that profit margins are not that great for the new stuff. What Hammond wants is to get rid of all the old Tonewheels out there (that will never happen) to increase sales on new gear. You are going to get people that want vintage stock all the time. There are people that will not even touch an old organ with Trek II pre-amps or mods on it. I agree 100%, although I do see a number of XK-3 users out there. All this stuff is expensive to the end user, including dealer costs, plus freight to get it here from Ham-Suz. This business is most defineately a labor of love, which frankly, is why most of us on the dealer side do it. B3GUYS.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Stopmakingsense Posted February 22, 2006 Members Share Posted February 22, 2006 dont forget www.motion-sound.com and Roland RT-20 and HK Rotosphere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Outkaster Posted February 22, 2006 Members Share Posted February 22, 2006 Originally posted by b3guys I agree 100%, although I do see a number of XK-3 users out there. All this stuff is expensive to the end user, including dealer costs, plus freight to get it here from Ham-Suz. This business is most defineately a labor of love, which frankly, is why most of us on the dealer side do it.B3GUYS.com Yeah they are out there but only a few us on here that use an XK-3. I understand the labor of love. I just think that trying to get people to forget about the original gear is kind of sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Real MC Posted February 22, 2006 Members Share Posted February 22, 2006 I still love my Porta-B and Leslie 760, but I gig with the XK-3 and CLS-222 now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bones Posted February 23, 2006 Members Share Posted February 23, 2006 Lugged around a 147 for many years (and the poor thing looks like its been lugged around). Picked up a BX3 last fall. The BX3's (CX3) Leslie sim is outstanding - enough to convince me to leave the Leslie at home. Moved the 147 to the basement and haven't looked back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Outkaster Posted February 23, 2006 Members Share Posted February 23, 2006 Originally posted by Bones Lugged around a 147 for many years (and the poor thing looks like its been lugged around). Picked up a BX3 last fall. The BX3's (CX3) Leslie sim is outstanding - enough to convince me to leave the Leslie at home. Moved the 147 to the basement and haven't looked back. Yeah the BX-3 is nice. I fyou are thinking of unloading the 147 let me know. I would love to have one of those or the XK System for the XK-3. The thing about it is the bottom manual is more expensive than the freakin XK-3 itself! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members b3guys Posted February 23, 2006 Members Share Posted February 23, 2006 Originally posted by Outkaster I would love to have one of those or the XK System for the XK-3. The thing about it is the bottom manual is more expensive than the freakin XK-3 itself! Not exactly - it's actually less expensive. (assuming recent Ham-Suz pricing info is correct). I am referring ONLY to the lower manual itself, NOT the stand, pedals, bench, etc. The XK-3 lower manual (traditional style) is actually about $150 MSRP LESS than the upper manual XK-3. An even more affordable solutiuon is the new XK-3 Pro style lower manual, which is priced about $700 less. B3GUYS.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Outkaster Posted February 23, 2006 Members Share Posted February 23, 2006 Originally posted by b3guys Not exactly - it's actually less expensive. (assuming recent Ham-Suz pricing info is correct). I am referring ONLY to the lower manual itself, NOT the stand, pedals, bench, etc. The XK-3 lower manual (traditional style) is actually about $150 MSRP LESS than the upper manual XK-3. An even more affordable solutiuon is the new XK-3 Pro style lower manual, which is priced about $700 less. B3GUYS.com Yeah I know the stand and pedals are separate. I actaully got an XK-3 for about 5% over cost. That lower manual really has nothing to it. Probably cost 100 dollars to build! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members suitandtieguy Posted February 23, 2006 Members Share Posted February 23, 2006 i'll be interested in a hammond clone when it's done right. they ALL fail my tests. the xk-3 comes closest, though. the most disappointing was the New B3, which has a keybed which feels remarkably like that of a 15 dollar 6-bit child's keyboard from Family Dollar. for a $20K instrument that sin is unforgivable. if not unforgivable then at least unpurchasable. none of these damn clones let you split manuals to seperate outputs, microtune the generator, stretch the generator, have continuously variable chorus speed, load your own generator samples, or turn off bass foldback. how the hell can you play good bass on these things without pedals if you can't turn off bass foldback?!??!! the clones that don't have a pedal section even have that stupid "authentic feature." seriously ... restraining ourselves to simulating a "stock" (ha!) 3-series console is exactly why i still gig with the real deal. what the {censored} is the point? weight? why don't these things simulate the untapered model A or the beautiful BC's actual chorus or the extended harmonics, celeste, and deep bass of the H-series? right now all the hammond clones sound great. every one of them also bores me to death. wake me up when they're actually interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Outkaster Posted February 23, 2006 Members Share Posted February 23, 2006 Originally posted by suitandtieguy i'll be interested in a hammond clone when it's done right.they ALL fail my tests. the xk-3 comes closest, though.the most disappointing was the New B3, which has a keybed which feels remarkably like that of a 15 dollar 6-bit child's keyboard from Family Dollar. for a $20K instrument that sin is unforgivable. if not unforgivable then at least unpurchasable.none of these damn clones let you split manuals to seperate outputs, microtune the generator, stretch the generator, have continuously variable chorus speed, load your own generator samples, or turn off bass foldback.how the hell can you play good bass on these things without pedals if you can't turn off bass foldback?!??!! the clones that don't have a pedal section even have that stupid "authentic feature."seriously ... restraining ourselves to simulating a "stock" (ha!) 3-series console is exactly why i still gig with the real deal. what the {censored} is the point? weight?why don't these things simulate the untapered model A or the beautiful BC's actual chorus or the extended harmonics, celeste, and deep bass of the H-series?right now all the hammond clones sound great. every one of them also bores me to death.wake me up when they're actually interesting. Good point. One probem here is people compare clone to clone not having really seeing, playing or having knowledge of the real deal. A real console is imperfect and perfect at the same time. That is a hard type of thing to get really right on a clone. Man the other night the 1955 B-3 I moved just screamed. It had a trek II Preamp unit in it and was loud as {censored}. It smells of Hammond oil...............that is the best. The marks, gouges and scratches on the case just make the experience so much more majestic. On the Xk-3 you can get into the tonewheels if you really want to go far. I have a big rig so the XK-3 will at least let me accent the rest of the keyboards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bones Posted February 24, 2006 Members Share Posted February 24, 2006 Originally posted by Outkaster I fyou are thinking of unloading the 147 let me know. I've been thinking about selling it. Don't know if I can part with it just yet - gear attachment sickness or something. I let you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dan88z Posted February 24, 2006 Members Share Posted February 24, 2006 Bones, you'll sell it and then kick yourself in the ass for it. Keep it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members b3guys Posted February 24, 2006 Members Share Posted February 24, 2006 Originally posted by dan88z Bones, you'll sell it and then kick yourself in the ass for it. Keep it! AMEN! I get numerous emails and phone calls weekly from guys looking for Leslies ... if you want to decrease a high probability for later regret, DON'T SELL IT! B3GUYS.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Outkaster Posted February 24, 2006 Members Share Posted February 24, 2006 Originally posted by b3guys AMEN! I get numerous emails and phone calls weekly from guys looking for Leslies ... if you want to decrease a high probability for later regret, DON'T SELL IT!B3GUYS.com Thanks guys! It is true Leslie's are in very short supply. I almost got a 147 RV and a 21H the other day but they had mods and water damage. I had to pass. It is too bad but you do not want to inherit someone elses problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Real MC Posted February 24, 2006 Members Share Posted February 24, 2006 Originally posted by suitandtieguy none of these damn clones let you split manuals to seperate outputs, microtune the generator, stretch the generator, have continuously variable chorus speed, load your own generator samples, or turn off bass foldback. You can vary the chorus speed on the XK-3, turn off foldback (or change the foldback point), and load your own generator calibration sets with the CF memory card. seriously ... restraining ourselves to simulating a "stock" (ha!) 3-series console is exactly why i still gig with the real deal. what the {censored} is the point? weight? Fuel is one. Your van or truck carrying that @ss-kickin' C2 sucks 10MPG while my Saturn carrying my XK-3/CLS-222 gets 40MPG. No worry about generator oil leaking into the vibrato generator if the console doesn't stay upright either. XK-3 doesn't have corroding key contacts, doesn't need oiling, doesn't need dried caps to be replaced. I love the vintage Hammond consoles but maintenance can be a hassle. why don't these things simulate the untapered model A or the beautiful BC's actual chorus or the extended harmonics, celeste, and deep bass of the H-series? Ah - the XK-3 lets you calibrate all 91 wheels in their "virtual" tone generator so you can match it to your favorite vintage Hammond. This is the one feature that sold me, I bought the XK-3 on that feature alone without even playing one. I exploit that feature to get the sound of my Porta-B - and it WORKED! I did play a BC once - loved that pearly chorus. That would be a challenge to emulate, knowing how the BC does that trick. wake me up when they're actually interesting. (nudge nudge) Eric? Wakey-wakey.... (gets frozen steel balls to dump in the bed...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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