Instructional videos (reviews)

[Auggie Doggie]

Originally posted by couchjammer I'm the kind of guy that learns best by watching. Seeing someone else do something is very helpful to me. Well, I figured the visual aspect was a given; even though I am not a particularly visual learner when it comes to music, I realize that many people are. Tab is OK, it certainly was a step in the right direction from what we had before. But normally it doesn't provide both the right and left hand fingering. As far as guitar goes, I am pretty much 'self-taught', but I was fortunate enough to have already developed my reading skills long before I started playing. It didn't take me very long (via trial and error) to figure out logical fingerings for most things. I don't know how experienced a player you are, but it would *seem* to me that once you get to a certain point, fingerings (etc) would be something you could work out fairly easily. With videos you can see it and hear it. You can watch them over and over and over again, at your own convienance. Plus you can get instruction from people that you could never ever aford private instuction from. Overall, I've found DVD's to be the best bang for the buck when it comes to instruction.

 

 

Do you feel that the law of diminishing returns applies? There's only so much information and material you can fit into a video, and I would think that the video's practical lifespan would be pretty short.

 

For a beginner who's just trying to figure out the basics of playing, I can certainly see the value of the visual/audio combination. But for those who are more experienced, it seems to me that videos are just too limited in terms of scope and depth.

 

I'm not knocking you or anyone else who is learning from videos...I'm just trying to get your perspective on them.

[Auggie Doggie]

Originally posted by bronco The key here is the concept of motivic development. Very good for getting exposed to simple motives and how to build and expound on them.

That's a subject that should be mandatory!

While I have always had a natural inclination towards motivic/melodic development, it wasn't until I began seriously studying counterpoint that I really became conscious of the process.

I'm glad to hear that the video you mentioned exists...not because I really want/need it, but simply because it's out there, which means that I'm not the only one who's noticed a lack of motivic development among many players.

[bronco]

The instructor's goal, I think, is to give folks that are new to improvisation (me) a 'structure' or a 'framework' for building a solo. He sets up examples of one bar phrases with two or three notes, labels them, and shows how to build your solo around them. Very nice introduction to the concept, as immediately I started recognizing it in LOTS of my jazz recordings.

[bronco]

Originally posted by Auggie Doggie That's a subject that should be mandatory! While I have always had a natural inclination towards motivic/melodic development, it wasn't until I began seriously studying counterpoint that I really became conscious of the process.

 

 

Studying counterpoint should only come after rudimentary harmony studies, correct?

[Auggie Doggie]

Originally posted by bronco Studying counterpoint should only come after rudimentary harmony studies, correct?

It depends on what you include under 'rudimentary harmony'. Traditionally, counterpoint was studied before harmony because counterpoint existed before harmony (at least as we conceive harmony today). A knowledge of intervals and their consonance/dissonance status is sufficient to start getting into counterpoint. Once you've gotten into chords, it's already too late--the damage is done!

My study of counterpoint was tainted (severely) by my knowledge of harmony, so I have to consciously 'forget' most of the harmonic stuff when writing contrapuntally, which isn't always easy. What usually happens is that I end up with counterpoint more bound by harmony than it's *supposed* to be.

Although, the cool thing about the two apparently contrasting concepts of 'counterpoint' and 'harmony' is that, no matter which one you start with, you always end up working towards the other; they meet somewhere in the middle, as it were.

[LosBoleros]

Originally posted by bronco Studying counterpoint should only come after rudimentary harmony studies, correct?

I would have to say yes to that. Although the study of counterpoint goes into the fundamental studies of harmony, when all is said and done, it is a more strict environment. I studied cointerpoint and am glad that I did but in my music I always use my fundamental harmony and rarely apply conterpoint. I think of it as a disapline that is good to know because it makes you aware that there are other possibilities out there which you could chose to use, or not.

[couchjammer]

Originally posted by Auggie Doggie Do you feel that the law of diminishing returns applies? There's only so much information and material you can fit into a video, and I would think that the video's practical lifespan would be pretty short. For a beginner who's just trying to figure out the basics of playing, I can certainly see the value of the visual/audio combination. But for those who are more experienced, it seems to me that videos are just too limited in terms of scope and depth. I'm not knocking you or anyone else who is learning from videos...I'm just trying to get your perspective on them.

I think that there are lots of videos out there that would challange any player, regardless of their skill level/ experience.

 

I mean were only talking 20 to 30 bucks here. Approx. the same price as a single private lesson.

 

Surely, the law of diminishing returns apply. With private lessons the returns start diminishing the minute you leave the studio, at least with me they do. I need repitition, repitition, repitition.

[ctoddrun]

I'm a guy who has spent over twenty years playing along with records and reading tab. I've only had four lessons in my life, and those were within the first year of playing.

Videos, in my experience, tend to get watched one time and then put on the shelf.

As I grow better as a guitar player (this is NOT the same as "musician") the more I realize I dont know diddley...

So I started on a quest to learn a bit about what I am doing. I purchased a DVD from Ebay called Totally Grasp Harmony and it really opened my eyes to what I DONT know.

I'd recommend that video to anyone with the dexterity and ear to play, but that, like me, is a novice in the theory area. Its four hours long and if I had the attention span it warrants, I could spend YEARS with the lessons in it. I would assume that you guys with lots of theory would just say, "I already know that stuff", but like I said, for a novice, it is REALLY good stuff.

Since I lack that sort of discipline, I decided to sign up at a local college for Fundamentals of Music this semester. Theory One to follow, and then Theory Two after that. The way I see it, I'll start at the beginning, and two days a week for about a year, I should have a fairly good grasp on WHAT I am doing in music.

I cant tell you guys how excited I am to be starting that class. And twice a week is just about right for me to get information assimilated before moving on to the next topic.

[Auggie Doggie]

Originally posted by ctoddrun As I grow better as a guitar player (this is NOT the same as "musician") the more I realize I dont know diddley... That's one of the greatest things about studying music; the more you learn, the more you realize you don't yet know! You can't ever run out of stuff to work on. Since I lack that sort of discipline, I decided to sign up at a local college for Fundamentals of Music this semester. Theory One to follow, and then Theory Two after that. The way I see it, I'll start at the beginning, and two days a week for about a year, I should have a fairly good grasp on WHAT I am doing in music. I cant tell you guys how excited I am to be starting that class. And twice a week is just about right for me to get information assimilated before moving on to the next topic.

That's great, man. Congratulations!

[bronco]

Originally posted by ctoddrun I'm a guy who has spent over twenty years playing along with records and reading tab. I've only had four lessons in my life, and those were within the first year of playing. Videos, in my experience, tend to get watched one time and then put on the shelf. As I grow better as a guitar player (this is NOT the same as "musician") the more I realize I dont know diddley... So I started on a quest to learn a bit about what I am doing. I purchased a DVD from Ebay called Totally Grasp Harmony and it really opened my eyes to what I DONT know. I'd recommend that video to anyone with the dexterity and ear to play, but that, like me, is a novice in the theory area. Its four hours long and if I had the attention span it warrants, I could spend YEARS with the lessons in it. I would assume that you guys with lots of theory would just say, "I already know that stuff", but like I said, for a novice, it is REALLY good stuff. Since I lack that sort of discipline, I decided to sign up at a local college for Fundamentals of Music this semester. Theory One to follow, and then Theory Two after that. The way I see it, I'll start at the beginning, and two days a week for about a year, I should have a fairly good grasp on WHAT I am doing in music. I cant tell you guys how excited I am to be starting that class. And twice a week is just about right for me to get information assimilated before moving on to the next topic.

 

 

Dude, fantastic. I live near Cincinnati Conservatory of Music. I should check out what they might have for thirty-something foagies like myself.

[Exploding Fist]

[bronco]

Playing and Understanding Jazz Guitar, taught by Fred Sokolow

Review pending. Just walked a few blocks down to the Cincinnati library and picked it up. Will view tonight or ... when I recover from tomorrow night.

[couchjammer]

Originally posted by bronco Playing and Understanding Jazz Guitar, taught by Fred Sokolow Review pending. Just walked a few blocks down to the Cincinnati library and picked it up. Will view tonight or ... when I recover from tomorrow night.

Hey that's cool that you have a library near by that has guitar instruction videos to check out.

I think guitar shops are missing the boat by not having a video rental section in their stores.

I've got 2 Fred Sokolow DVD's. Ones the the Grateful Dead and the other is Simon and Garfunkel. Freds laid back style makes him a good teacher.

Let us know how you like Freds Jazz lesson.

[bronco]

Playing and Understanding Jazz Guitar, taught by Fred Sokolow

Watched last night. Wow what a good video. I'll explain.

If you use videos to expose yourself to concepts without expecting the video to do the work for you, this video is definitely something worth while for the following kinds of people:

1. Motivated Learners who aren't scared of work
2. A fantastic exposure and overview of standard jazz chord progressions, such as 2-5-1, 6-2-5-1, 3-6-2-5-1...
3. Good exposure to the vocabulary of jazz
4. Now I am exposed to what a Chord Solo is, even though I've heard it... just didn't know what to call it
5. Now I am exposed to some of the mechanisms of chord changes
6. Lots and lots of jazz is all about the chords, not just single note lines (he calls chord solos a 'dying art')
7. New found respect for 'early' chord jazz (such as his real catchy honey suckle rose arrangement)

Requirements:

To get the most out of this video, you should be at least aware of the general structure of scales and how they translate on the fretboard. You also probably want to know what things like a 9th or a 6th mean.

I was severely hampered by the lack of the printed booklet that originally came with the video. That would have helped a great deal, as Fred made many references to it.

Fred assumes that you'll do the work, and even makes jokes about how you'll "... dedicate the next 85 hours of your life before you can move on to the next part of the video." That was, i think, after the very first lesson segment. I like meaty teachers that say, "go chew on this and don't go on until you know it without thinking".

I watched it end to end without my guitar so that I could really pay attention to what he was saying and demonstrating.

For me, a relatively new guitar player, it was good because I'm now free of the 'gear lust' phase and starting into the 'real musician' phase, and I wanted next steps.

My personal take aways from the vid...

1. I need to go so far beyond where I *think* i know the scales. Sure, I can sit down with staff paper and derive scales, with a great deal of inefficiency thrown in. I can also play all the majors and their modes on the guitar. BUT... can I sit there and immediately know and find the ii chord of any major scale? Not yet, but now I know I gotta learn it like I know how to fart. Its actually pretty humbling. I have some level of recognized accomplishment on my other instrument, and seeing this video reminds me of those times when I was a beginner on that other instrument. Never forget to be humble.

2. Leave your ego behind until you can speak of 3-6-2-5-1 changes and all the notes therein and their inversions, at least as calmly and casually as Fred can. Better yet, adopt Fred's attitude. Be professional about your approach to music itself. Know tunes in all keys (i'm so not there yet). It's not about the guitar, its about your brain and your fingers.

Ok, thats all for now. My next video, when it comes in at the local library next week, will be "Jim Kelley's Guitar Workshop".

[Auggie Doggie]

Originally posted by couchjammer I think guitar shops are missing the boat by not having a video rental section in their stores.

 

 

I don't know how the video companies deal with this now, but about 10 years ago, there was a local shop that was renting videos (against the wishes of the publishers). The owner had a secret list of videos kept under the counter; you had to specifically ask for it, and he created a special receipt that indicated that you were *buying* the tape, but had the option to return it for 75% of its price.

 

He got caught anyway, and had to pay a $15,000 fine for each rental (of which only 2 were proven).

[Duivelke]

Bump to keep it on top

[ksargent]

I am something of a fan of video instruction. As Augie correctly points out, there are limitations, but I think there's a lot of bang for the buck there - especially when you consider the price of a DVD is about that of an hour of live instruction. Some video-based lessons that I have liked:

Roy Bookbinder's 'Blues by the Book" - This is a relatively basic overview of some of Roy's country blues fingerstyle techniques. Basic yes - trivial, not necessarily. Roy is a player in the style of Rev. Gary Davis and John Jackson (he actually learned directly from both men) and he is quite good at getting across his ideas in an entertaining fashion.

Martin Simpson's Homespun Series - Simpson is a master fingerstyle player as most of you know. He intersperses his lessons with ideas on technique and nuance which I think are useful.

Muriel Anderson's Videos on Fingerstyle arrangements - Muriel is an incredible player - perhaps the best of any I've mentioned here. She has one video on arranging, which is basic, but good for beginners, and another in which she teaches some of her arrangements. The latter is only for advanced intermediate and advanced players.

Al Petteway's Celtic Guitar - good stuff, but I would have preferred more traditional material (at least on the first disc/tape). There are some interesting ideas on playing accompaniment in DADGAD.

Stefan Grossman's Bottleneck Guitar - heavy on repetoire, good for a beginner especially when used in conjunction with Bob Bozeman's series (mentioned in an earlier post).

The Fred Sokolow jazz lesson is a good tool for a beginner as well.

The value of a DVD lesson is really a function (obviously) of how good the teacher is at getting across his or her material. I am a huge John Fahey fan, for example, but his videos for Guitar Workshop were not particulary helpful in learning his style.

Bottom line: if you pick up one or two ideas or songs, then you've gotten your money's worth. Because that is all you are likely to get from a lesson with a live teacher.

Just my $.02

Ken

[minorpentatonic]

Robben Ford - He has three instructional DVD's that I think are excellent.

 

Playin' the Blues is the first one from many years ago. Its as basic as it gets. Covers the pentatonic scale, holding a pick, string bending, some basic chords common in blues, a 12 bar blues solo, etc. Perfect for the beginner

 

The Blues and Beyond is the next one that covers more advanced topics and even has an analysis of his popular Revelation tune. He also talks about soloing over a vamp ala Miles Davis.

 

The last is actually a double volume on one DVD called Back to the Blues. Covers tons of stuff and has his Blue Line group perforrming several songs. He talks about different blues styles, his gear, the importance of using your ears, provides an analysis of a couple of great songs, etc.

 

These videos can all be watched time and time again and you can get something new each time you watch and listen. Each one of them is worth its weight in gold.

[ctoddrun]

I picked up that Robben Ford DVD. Not the basics one, the next one.

I wish he'd had spent more time with the section on explaining when he was using Mixolydian, Minor Pents, etc. and show that stuff over different progressions. Kind of, "ok, do you hear how this is resolving BACK to the one?, well, start thinking about making a theme to resolve with it and use this scale because its a BEST fit for the chord of the progression".

Maybe I'm almost "there" with this understanding anyway, as my ears are getting better and my phrasing is coming along, but a little push over the top would sure make me sleep easier at night.

Maybe there is a DVD out there that does this, I just havent seen it yet.

[TheAxeMan]

Eric Johnson and Robben Ford ones are good too. Robbens is a little more informative on the scales he's using and how to approach his songs and other songs. Eric Johnson show's influences, scales he uses, and more on his own chord theory. Both are pretty good.

[ledzep686]

Originally posted by JeffN Has anyone seen the John Mclaughlin DVD set? It promises a lot and comes with a hefty price tag. I'm curious

Same here, anyone???

[Duivelke]

Bump for sticky

[Duivelke]

^

[Dr. Jimmy]

I agree this is a good candidate for a sticky!

[edstate]

Getting in a little late...

Are there any good, beginner ACOUSTIC guitar DVDs out there?

A freind of mine just got a really nice acoustic.

Also, I got a really nice "Play like SRV" which pretty much shows you how to play all his "hits." IT's not bad, especially for the price. The only problem with playing-along (and learning) is he drop-tunes, as did SRV, but I normally play in standard tune. Oh well.

When I get home tonight I'll re-post the name of it, and a little better review.

e