A little good advice about chords.

[red|dragon]

I'm gunna modulate yo momma!

[mukuzi]

AG answers the question!
Can a triad modulate?

U saying i dont understand Schoenberg means nothing

Answer the question

Can a triad modulate?

Or just leave it as your not adding anything to this discussion except repetition

[Auggie Doggie]

Originally posted by skatan AG answers the question! Can a triad modulate? U saying i dont understand Schoenberg means nothing Answer the question Can a triad modulate? Or just leave it as your not adding anything to this discussion except repetition

 

 

 

Who EVER said that a 'triad could modulate'? Nobody said that, except you in your meaningless, stupid questions. The way you phrase it simply makes no sense, which is why nobody else ever said it. Trying to put words into someone's mouth isn't going to work here; you need a new tactic, preferably one of substance rather than bull{censored}. You are the one trying to pass off your foolish 'opinion' as Schoenbergian theory, and you refuse to accept what the guy REALLY said, so the discussion ends at that point--you're either too stupid or too stubborn to comprehend the subject at hand. There is nothing more anyone can add because you simply deny what is being said.

 

And guess what: no triad can modulate...no 7th chord can modulate...no 9th chord can modulate..or 11th...or 13th. Modulation is a process, not a single entity.

 

Triads are used in modulations all the time, just as they are used in progressions all the time. A wholly convincing modulation can be achieved using nothing BUT triads if the composer so chooses. If you had ever studied modulation, you would know this. But you don't even know that triads are chords, which indicates that you've never studied harmony.

 

You need to learn what chords are, why they exist, how they are used, and how they came to be in the first place. Without this knowledge, you've crippled yourself when it comes to moving beyond that level.

 

You've shown repeatedly that you don't have a grasp of the fundamentals. You keep trying to drop Schoenberg's name when you clearly haven't the foggiest notion what he had to say, and you quoted him, followed by your personal interpretation of his words, which is simply INCORRECT and ABSURD. Schoenberg REFUTES your silly beliefs and opinions, and yet you keep trying to cite him as a supporting source.

 

No, son, you haven't read Schoenberg. You may have seen some words he wrote, but you surely didn't read them. I HAVE read Schoenberg, extensively, and I KNOW (not think, feel, or opine... I absolutely KNOW) what he said and what he meant, and that it is in complete disagreement with your nonsensical interpretations.

[Neilsonite]

EDIT - I typed this while Auggie was typing the reply above, sorry for the doubling up...

Logic doesn't seem to have much bearing on this thread, but I'll give it a quick go...

skatan - three of the quotes you just posted define a triad as a chord. For example, "chords built on the seven tones of the major scale appear as triads, seventh chords etc" (emphasis mine).

A triad is a type of chord. Everyone, including Schoenberg, knows this to be the case. There simply isn't any discussion.

(Auggie, you're much more informed than I am, so please let me know if there's anything wrong in the following bit...)

skatan, what you seem at times to be saying is that you're after a name for something that can define a tonality or key. The thing is, no one chord in isolation is very good at defining a tonality (maj7 is not much better than major triad, for example, and a full maj13 chord is comparatively rare). I think you may be after the concept of a cadence, which is basically a harmonic device used to define a key.

For example, the key of C major is defined by the C major chord being the resting place, but this is a result of a chord progression leading to one or more cadences that establish that key. In other words, a chord progression in C major (like C-Dm-G-C, note the authentic or V-I cadence) is what defines the key, not simply the C major chord played in isolation.

Now, about modulation, I have no idea what you're going on about, but a triad can indeed be used in modulation. A simple example is "common chord modulation", in which a chord common to two keys is used as a pivot in moving between them. Using this technique, you could use a C triad to modulate between the keys of C major and G major, or C major and F major, etc...

[mukuzi]

thanks for all the good advice:D

a triad is a type of chord.. i will accept it and yes i might be wrong etc


and to AG would you mind explaing this to me please

"your personal interpretation of his words, which is simply INCORRECT and ABSURD. Schoenberg REFUTES your silly beliefs and opinions, and yet you keep trying to cite him as a supporting source."



Heres the quote

[Tarv]

Originally posted by skatan thanks for all the good advice:D a triad is a type of chord.. i will accept it and yes i might be wrong etc and to AG would you mind explaing this to me please "your personal interpretation of his words, which is simply INCORRECT and ABSURD. Schoenberg REFUTES your silly beliefs and opinions, and yet you keep trying to cite him as a supporting source." Heres the quote

[mukuzi]

Originally posted by Tarv God {censored}'n damnit your dumb:bor:

 

 

your a troll

 

i have used schoenbergs own words and AG says;

 

"your personal interpretation of his words, which is simply INCORRECT and ABSURD. Schoenberg REFUTES your silly beliefs and opinions, and yet you keep trying to cite him as a supporting source."

 

its his own words man, they come right after the quote AG posted, there on the same page!

 

 

 

what are you anyway?

 

do you know the difference between a modulation and a transposition

 

thats what my whole argument was about all along

only one guy realised and said it a way better than me.

[Auggie Doggie]

Originally posted by skatan a triad is a type of chord.. i will accept it and yes i might be wrong etc 'Might'? It's a fact---you're wrong. Heres the quote

[mukuzi]

Originally posted by Auggie Doggie 'Indefinite in its harmonic meaning'. Do you have any idea what that means? yes It means that any given triad can serve a number of different functions, all dependent upon context. been saying that all along, if you werent so venomous u would have seen that

 

 

 

calm down you remind me of ginman

not good

[red|dragon]

Taken from The Enjoyment of Music by Joseph Machlis and Kristine Forney

chord: "simulataneous combination of three or more tones that constitute a single block of harmony"

triad: "common chord type, consisting of three pitches built on alternate tones of the scale"

modulation: "the process of changing from one key to another"

"As the composer Arnold Schoenburg put it, "Modulation is like a change of scenery."

[Auggie Doggie]

Originally posted by skatan been saying that all along, if you werent so venomous u would have seen that

You are completely full of {censored}.

You've said that triads are not chords. You said that in order to have a chord, it must have a tritone or half step.

You've also accused me of having not studied harmony past Bach, even though I've studied harmony more from Schoenberg than anyone else, and he's as '20th century' as you can get. Of course, you also tried to say that Bach's 'harmony' was simplistic and purely based on mathematical formulas, which indicates that you have no concept of counterpoint (and thus voice leading), and in turn you fail to grasp the 'simple, mathematical formulas' of Bach, while raving about 20th century harmony according to Schoenberg, which you don't understand either.

You've shown that you don't have ANY concept of harmony. You've dropped names and sources that refute your claims. You twist words in an attempt to discredit others whose words are well-supported by the very sources you are trying to claim for yourself. You've been dishonest. You've tried some underhanded tactics to help your 'argument'. You've referenced sources that you obviously aren't familiar with, and got caught by those of us who ARE familiar with them. And yet you have the nerve to call others 'trolls'?

[bardsley]

I just want to add here that, while this argument has been entirely pointless, some of the info brought in has been quite nice food for thought. You may despair of ever getting through to Skatan, Auggie, but in trying your damndest you've posted some interesting material.
Just felt I should point that out to show that even if you feel like you're banging oyur head against a brick wall, what you're posting is getting through - to some people.

[mukuzi]

thats what this is all about Bardsley, food for thought
well said.


Schoenberg says that one day someone will come along with a theory that can explain his 12 tone stuff

i believe i am that person:cool:

[gennation]

Originally posted by skatan thats what this is all about Bardsley, food for thought well said. Schoenberg says that one day someone will come along with a theory that can explain his 12 tone stuff i believe i am that person:cool:

 

 

Come on, be for real ska.

 

We need to mentally "lock" this thread and not post here anymore...

 

And, we need you to help with that ska.

 

If you don't reply...we'll know you're on board.

[mukuzi]

Originally posted by gennation Come on, be for real ska. We need to mentally "lock" this thread and not post here anymore... And, we need you to help with that ska. If you don't reply...we'll know you're on board.

 

 

I`m not bored but i`m happy to comply.

cheers

[Auggie Doggie]

Originally posted by skatan Schoenberg says that one day someone will come along with a theory that can explain his 12 tone stuff i believe i am that person:cool:

[dastardlydrvish]

Originally posted by Auggie Doggie So, how much crack do you smoke on a daily basis, and for how many years has this been the case?

[dastardlydrvish]

Originally posted by skatan thats what this is all about Bardsley, food for thought well said. Schoenberg says that one day someone will come along with a theory that can explain his 12 tone stuff i believe i am that person:cool:

 

 

 

In that case, I'd recomend that you begin studying some of the basic grammar, style, and diction of the English language... Or else find someone who can translate and take dictation of your egomaniacal jibberish. Otherwise, your "theory" will die with you, and that would be a tragedy too great for the common mind to absorb.