Why are people slow with theory?

[captain average]

one other thing i guess i didn't point out. piano players, the first thing they learn is middle c. then they learn the major scale and how to form simple triad chords and how to read the staff, and are soon reading the sheet music to beethoven or whatever. theory and technique are learned simultaneously. the teaching process is pretty standardized and theory knowledge is part of it.
guitar players, on the other hand, generally learn a couple open chords and are told to practice knocking on heaven's door or house of the rising sun until their hands are strong enough and their fingers are calloused... so much early guitar is about technique and in fact you can spend your whole life playing and not knowing any more theory than a piano player might learn in his first lesson or couple of lessons. i know i spent years watching people's hands to see different ways to finger chords or pick up riffs. theory takes a back seat when 90 percent of the songs you learn are 3 or 4 strummed chords and maybe a riff or bass run. it's a lot more about rhythm and feel, compared to the intellectual appeal of keyboard music. there is classical guitar and jazz guitar, but let's face it, classical guitar is limited compared to piano or orchestra, and most jazz guitar is boring. pretty, maybe, but not fun or loud or wild. noone's gonna set their 335 on fire or play autumn leaves with their teeth and the volume up to 11, so kids are gonna ignore it and learn to play power chords and their favorite green day song.
finally, many of the roots of guitar music comes from people who were straight up illiterate or at least couldn't read music.

[Jasco]

i tried reading lessons from the internet and from books, but everyone just sucked horribly at explaining things. so i gave up. then i took theory in college and in a day i managed to comprehend the concepts that alluded me for years , prior.

 

 

Just a hypothesis: You probably weren't ready for theory years prior, so it seemed like everyone was explaining things poorly. But when you were ready for it, it just fell into place.

 

That seems to happen a lot to students I know.

[Knottyhed]

Also, could you play that note a little bit more legato, and a little quieter ? Thanks"

That's either really amazing or that was one really loud bassoon note

[Li Shenron]

Well, when you said that, I was thinking about one rehearsal with Boston Pops Orchestra I was at. John Williams (the Star Wars guy, not the guitarist) was conducting. During rehearsal, he stopped the piece and said, "2nd bassoon at measure 128, beat 2, should be C#, not C natural. You played it right, but it was written wrong. Sorry about that. Also, could you play that note a little bit more legato, and a little quieter? Thanks" What made that amazing was that he was conducting a 90-piece orchestra, and everyone was playing. He was able to pick that one note out and zero in on what was wrong, and why. It took him seconds to solve it. Having great ears, and the ability to clearly communicate like that is a whole other level!

That was a great story!

And I agree on what you say, I felt truly proud just for having catched our keyboardist playing a minor chord instead of a major chord... and that's clearly way easier in a 6-piece band, but still it felt good to me

[Li Shenron]

 

to be honest, i think it is because people suck at explaining things.

 

 

...very good point. I've been trying to put together my ideas and understanding in a website, and I've found that even what I believe I understand very well, I cannot immediately explain it in a decent way (particularly in written form)!

[captain average]

ironically, all that stuff is easy as pie to demonstrate live on a piano. maybe a simple program with some graphics would work. for instance, you'd explain and show the c major scale on a piano, then you'd demonstrate how it transfers over to a keyboard, etc.
you'd probably need some programming skills. sell it for 19.95 on a late night infomercial.

[Jed]

Learning to think in terms of theory is hard work. Oh, it's easy enough to say, memorize the major scale formula and assume we understand theory. But even that small simple thing is of little value until we take the time and effort to memorize each key in terms of notes names for the scale degrees, diatonic progression and the scalar function of their component chord tones, common cadences, etc, etc. Just the ramifications of the simple major scale applied across the 12 or 13 common keys is a mountain of effort to internalize.

Then of course the memorization of such things is not even the point or the real goal. The goal, I believe is to be able to think "in key" immediately and naturally enough that there is no latency between thought and action, so that the music flows freely regardless of key. The memorization is just one of the means to an end, the first step if you will.

All of this is a tremendous amount of work for most people. Rather than being surprised that more people don't pick up theory quickly, I'm amazed that anyone sticks with it enough to see the real benefits. It's no surprise to me that so many want to believe that theory kills creativity. If they don't demonize theory, they might have to face the effort and challenge of having to actually work through really learning theory.

My own approach to theory is it's a personal challenge for me to learn each key to a point that I can think in any key as easily as I can think in the key of C. The majority of my daily practice is spent working towards this goal using the guitar is my frame of reference. It's not for everyone, and I'm not bothered at all to be taking this minority view / approach to theory and the guitar. I don't need the consensus of others to validate my commitment to internalizing theory. Each person is free to determine their own path. My own "needs" are to be able to play any melody, chord progression, cadence, comp'ing pattern - in any key - at any time - on demand and without thought or hesitation. Theory helps me make progress towards this goal.

cheers,

[philipp122]

A lot of us are self-taught. I didn't even know what scales were when I picked up a guitar for the first time. It took me a good year to understand the basics if theory and how they relate to each other. I didn't have a teacher or a book or a DVD set. I had to research, my biggest problem being people who don't know what they're talking about giving me false information. It took me a good two weeks to understand why the minor scale isn't the same thing as the Aeolian mode in every way, simply because some idiot told me that anything with a flat 3rd is "Aeolian".

[Jed]

A lot of us are self-taught. I didn't even know what scales were when I picked up a guitar for the first time. It took me a good year to understand the basics if theory and how they relate to each other. I didn't have a teacher or a book or a DVD set. I had to research, my biggest problem being people who don't know what they're talking about giving me false information. It took me a good two weeks to understand why the minor scale isn't the same thing as the Aeolian mode in every way, simply because some idiot told me that anything with a flat 3rd is "Aeolian".

 

 

You story is not unusual.

 

What percentage of forum members are working pro's - Maybe 1%?

 

What percentage are teachers / instructors - Maybe 3%?

 

What percentage are serious students of theory - Maybe 10%?

 

That leaves about 85% that are not included in the above groups . . . do the math and draw you own conclusions.

[jonfinn]

A lot of us are self-taught. I didn't even know what scales were when I picked up a guitar for the first time. It took me a good year to understand the basics if theory and how they relate to each other. I didn't have a teacher or a book or a DVD set. I had to research, my biggest problem being people who don't know what they're talking about giving me false information. It took me a good two weeks to understand why the minor scale isn't the same thing as the Aeolian mode in every way, simply because some idiot told me that anything with a flat 3rd is "Aeolian".

 

 

Yeah, I think Jed might be right.

 

One thing that's helped me with figuring out who's advice to listen to:

If I like the way someone plays, what they have to say will hold far more weight than any academic degree or verbal claim of superiority. The only time that gets challenging is when I meet a great player who's clearly a nut-job. Our industry has it's share of those!

 

Once when I was in high school taking a music theory course, I was given an assignment: write a song that used certain harmonic structures (I don't remember the specifics). While working on the assignment, I got distracted and wrote a tune I really liked. But it didn't fulfill the assignment at all.

 

I took it to my teacher and asked, "I know this isn't the assignment. But while I was working on it, this tune came out. While I don't understand WHY it sounds good, I really like it. I will still do your assignment. But will you give me some insight as to why this sounds the way it does?"

 

He looked at it for a moment and said, "Mr. Finn, it's wrong." and handed it back to me.

 

The worst thing he did was sentence me to years of second-guessing my work.

 

The best thing he did was plant the "I'll show that bastard" seed.