which analog/poly would compliment my setup?

[CardioGram]

As I continue the quest to build a nice synth palette w/o totally breaking the bank (haha),

 

i currently have only one polyphonic analog: the juno 106. it is doing exactly what i got it for, simple but punchy techno-style bass, and basic stringpads or little noises.

 

so next im thinking abut going big on something that can do nice thick, complex, rich analog polyphonic pads and leads. (ie the type that tends to be expensive )

 

some candidates:

a6

xpander

jupiter6

mks80

jupiter8, if i could find one..

matrix12

ob-xa ? (not sure if it fits)

 

for space reasons a module rather than keyboard would be especially nice, but that's not always possible

 

 

(btw, my other synths include:

desktop evolver

fr revolution

mc-202

ex5

dx200

imposcar/sytrus/etc.etc.)

 

 

now, i am largely influenced by detroit/older techno so its no wonder i'm heavy on the 'roland sound'. but i wonder if going the jup6/8 direction would just be 'too much roland'.

 

on the other hand, don't the oberheims use similar filters to the evolver... would that be kinda redundant? i am pretty intrigued by oberheim simply because i own nothing from them.

 

i have thought that another element im missing is something with a really round/warm sound a la moog.. so i guess what i really want is a polyphonic modular moog, except i suppose that is dreaming

 

comments/advice please?

 

hope this thread isn't too similar to other threads in the past.. i will take the free advice i can get!

[G-bus]

Get the A6 for it's diversity, flexibility and creamy moog-like goodness.

 

This will vastly widen your pallete, and later on down the road you can add vintage pieces as you see fit to fill in any specific sounds you would like to have.

[WhinyLittleRunt]

If you're worried about space, the MKS80 is a fantastic synth for exactly what you described.

 

Do you have a budget you're sticking to?

[CardioGram]

the limit is probably $2k, USD,

 

of course less would be better.

 

 

So, good comments so far..

yes i suspected the a6 would be highly praised for such duties. i see them on sale re-boxed for $2100ish i think it was.

can anyone think of 'cons' re: the a6 to consider?

 

now about the mks80:: will it sound much like the juno106? or is the filter character quite different? i do like the rack thing...

[stikygum]

 

Originally posted by CardioGram the limit is probably $2k, USD, of course less would be better. So, good comments so far.. yes i suspected the a6 would be highly praised for such duties. i see them on sale re-boxed for $2100ish i think it was. can anyone think of 'cons' re: the a6 to consider? now about the mks80:: will it sound much like the juno106? or is the filter character quite different? i do like the rack thing...

 

 

Mks80, definitely different from the Juno. Just to point out off the bat, there are 2 MKS80s: one waith serial numbers starting with the 400 numbers have fast envelopes while the ones starting with the 500 serial numbers have slower envelopes and have a creamier sound to them.

 

I would vote for a Jupiter 8 or a Xpander. Jupiter 8 is so lush, basically there is nothing you will find it can't do. Great everything. The Xpander has a nice edge and character to it and is super deep with all kinds of routings.

[WhinyLittleRunt]

The MKS80 will sound a bit more like a Jupiter 8, because that's pretty much what is is; a rack version of it. I don't think it sounds 'just' like one, but the tonal characteristics are definately the same and it sounds nothing like a Juno.

[droolmaster0]

 

Originally posted by WhinyLittleRunt The MKS80 will sound a bit more like a Jupiter 8, because that's pretty much what is is; a rack version of it. I don't think it sounds 'just' like one, but the tonal characteristics are definately the same and it sounds nothing like a Juno.

 

 

From many postings on AH, I was under the impression that the mks 80 was actually a rack version of the jupiter 6 (or at least close to it), and not the Jupiter 8.

[WhinyLittleRunt]

 

Originally posted by droolmaster0 From many postings on AH, I was under the impression that the mks 80 was actually a rack version of the jupiter 6 (or at least close to it), and not the Jupiter 8.

 

 

This is from Vintage Synth Explorer -

 

"The MKS-80 is basically a refined Jupiter 8 in a module. It is called the Super Jupiter and it is very fat and very analog! Its great sound is due in part to the classic analog Roland technology in its filters, modulation capabilities and a thick cluster of 16 analog oscillators at 2 per voice. It comes in a 2 space rack-module - no keyboard here. Tons of editing capabilities, although editing is tedious. It's got all the classic sounds of the Jupiter synths and so much more. An excellent choice for ambient drones, pads, blips, buzzes and leads.!"

 

Then again, one's ears would ultimately tell the difference. But I think it was meant to be a Jup8 in a rack module.

[Dave Bryce]

 

Originally posted by WhinyLittleRunt "The MKS-80 is basically a refined Jupiter 8 in a module.

I'm pretty sure that's wrong. The MKS80 is an 8 voice synth, yes...but I'm fairly certain it's basically an 8 voice Jupiter 6 with a bass boost circuit.

 

dB

[droolmaster0]

 

Originally posted by Dave Bryce I'm pretty sure that's wrong. The MKS80 is an 8 voice synth, yes...but I'm fairly certain it's basically an 8 voice Jupiter 6 with a bass boost circuit. dB

 

 

Yes - so many knowledgeable people have posted on AH to that effect...

[CardioGram]

the a6 looks like the best option on paper.. i have great respect for that machine, but i can't find any mp3 demos that 'do it' for me. I've tried quite a few; can anyone point me in a better direction? The best one I heard was a 'trance' y one that might have been posted here... except that it was _drenched_ in reverb making it tricky to use as a fair demo.

 

otoh i may have located a good price on an xpander near to where i live, so i think i will at least go check it out. Online demos point to it being indeed kinda similar to the evolver sound, but a little smoother and a little more lush, anybody agree?

 

 

judging by all the sound demos ive heard, i guess what i _really_ would like is an oberheim ob-x with the routing of the xpander... heh.

 

 

....

 

Could anyone do an intuitive/adjective comparison of the jup6 sound vs jup8 vs juno106? (Of course I am already listening to as many mp3s as I can...)

 

 

Thanks very much for your input, everyone.

 

I've never had the cash available for a 'serious' poly til now, this is very exciting. (not that the juno106 isn't 'serious' within its scope )

[G-bus]

 

Originally posted by CardioGram the a6 looks like the best option on paper.. i have great respect for that machine, but i can't find any mp3 demos that 'do it' for me.

 

 

Mp3s suck, and most of the presets suck too. I felt the same way about the mp3 demos I heard, but after trying it out in person and really digging into it, it was a no brainer at the current prices.

[flat earth]

cardio, dont know where on earth you are situated, but they got one at this link.:

 

http://www.jarberry-music.co.uk/KeyboardsUsed.htm

 

If you were near by, maybe you could demo it.

 

Agree with G-bus, you gotta try it in person to appreciate its sound.

 

[marino]

My opinion on the ones you listed:

 

- Flexibility/programming: A6 or Xpander/Matrix-12

- Polyphony: A6 or Matrix-12

- Sound quality: All sound great, maybe the Jupiter 6 is a notch below the others, and the OBXa a notch above... but that's just me. Any one of those synths is going to eat the Juno 106 alive!

- Reliability: The OBXa is known for its unreliability.

 

If you're especially interested in pads, the poly factor is important; layering sounds/oscillators really makes a difference.

 

The price of a good-condition Matrix-12 (given that you can find one) is going to be quite more than an A6... so all things considered, I'd go with the A6.

[J3RK]

 

Originally posted by Dave Bryce I'm pretty sure that's wrong. The MKS80 is an 8 voice synth, yes...but I'm fairly certain it's basically an 8 voice Jupiter 6 with a bass boost circuit. dB

 

 

If I'm not mistaken, the J6 and MKS 80 are CEM based, where the J8 is not.

[CardioGram]

 

Originally posted by J3RK If I'm not mistaken, the J6 and MKS 80 are CEM based, where the J8 is not.

 

 

I read somewhere that the mks80 rev4 has curtis oscillators and roland filters, the rev5 has roland oscillators and roland filters. people say the rev4 sounds warmer, but both have their fans.

 

So at least, neither of them have CEM vcf's, is my understanding. .. .. ?

[J3RK]

Originally posted by CardioGram I read somewhere that the mks80 rev4 has curtis oscillators and roland filters, the rev5 has roland oscillators and roland filters. people say the rev4 sounds warmer, but both have their fans. So at least, neither of them have CEM vcf's, is my understanding. .. .. ?

 

I think that is correct. Roland IR chips for filters, and probably oscillators later on. Still quite a way from the J8 though. I haven't played either of them myself though, so this is purely "on paper"

[mildbill]

i only have a 'little' experience with the A6 and Xpander, so guess which ones i would pick?

 

then again, i'm a bit of an alesis/oberheim fanboy - they do what i like.

 

either one is going to take a bit of playing around with to get a feel for what they can do.

[CardioGram]

 

Originally posted by mildbill i only have a 'little' experience with the A6 and Xpander, so guess which ones i would pick? then again, i'm a bit of an alesis/oberheim fanboy - they do what i like. either one is going to take a bit of playing around with to get a feel for what they can do.

 

 

 

Hi! I would love to hear any further comments/comparisons on those 2 machines.

 

I found some decent (and a few excellent) A6 demos at wohmart.com so I'm starting to get properly enthusiastic about the alesis finally.

 

Meanwhile the xpander sound demos have a lot of character-- but it also sounds rather quirky and definitely not what you'd call tops for 'phatness' or presence.

 

does that seem accurate?

[droolmaster0]

 

Originally posted by CardioGram Hi! I would love to hear any further comments/comparisons on those 2 machines. I found some decent (and a few excellent) A6 demos at wohmart.com so I'm starting to get properly enthusiastic about the alesis finally. Meanwhile the xpander sound demos have a lot of character-- but it also sounds rather quirky and definitely not what you'd call tops for 'phatness' or presence. does that seem accurate?

 

 

I personally think that the xpander interface is the best I've ever used on a synth, at least a synth of that complexity. I'd agree with you about the sound - the envelopes are pretty slow and the sound lacks the 'oomph' of some analog synths. It doesn't sound bad by any stretch of the imagination, but generally people prefer the older oberheims for pure sound quality (I haven't used these, so I'm just going on what 'people' say).

 

So... I think that the xpander has the edge in the user interface, and it has the edge in some of its mod routings - more lfos and envelopes (I think I have that right), really nice tracking modulation. It also, like a true modular, allows you to set the oscillators to just play themselves - for drones which don't have to be triggered by notes - a feature that I've always really liked. The multimode is just great - really easy to set up patches quickly and edit the individual patches in that context.

 

I do think that the Andromeda has the better quality sound (though some consider it more modern and digital). It also, overall, has more modulation and other features (sequencer and arpeggiator), flexible envelopes, etc, etc. It is also still supported by Alesis, so I imagine that if there was an issue with one, there would not be an issue in finding the parts. It also has more voices, and more parts in its multimode.

 

I have had my Andromeda for a short time, and have gotten an xpander again recently, after a long time without one. I intend to keep both, but if I HAD to choose...it would be tough, but I'd have to go with the Andromeda. I couldn't really argue with either choice. Ideally one should have some quality time with both. If this isn't possible, perhaps download both manuals and read through them. Obviously, if one is choosing between these synths, one is looking for features, and the manuals at least give an idea of what you have available.

[aeon]

Originally posted by CardioGram ...im thinking abut going big on something that can do nice thick, complex, rich analog polyphonic pads and leads...for space reasons a module rather than keyboard would be especially nice, but that's not always possible...i am largely influenced by detroit/older techno so its no wonder i'm heavy on the 'roland sound'...i have thought that another element im missing is something with a really round/warm sound a la moog...

 

Given your budget, and what you want to do, and your tonal reference, I would likely go for the Roland MKS-80.

 

That said, you absolutely need to consider a Roland MKS-70 too. It can do stunning Detroitish pads that will never cease to please.

 

On the other hand, a lot of the sound of a great pad is the modulated delay post-processing that gives it the "cherry on top" kiss, so consider splitting your $2K budget on a synth and a pro-level effects processor.

 

Another thing you could consider is pairing a MKS-70 or -80 with a suitable monosynth that can deliver ripping leads and warm and fat bass with Moog tone - for example, a Studio Electronics ATC-1/X.

 

Now that I think about it, I think I would go for a used SE ATC-1 for bass and leads, Roland MKS-70 or -80 for lush analog padstrings, and the leftover on a Boss CE-300 analog chorus. You could likely do that for $1350, and have great sound quality and have some coin left over.

 

Note: You can get a MKS-70 w/PG-800 programmer for about the price of the MKS-80 alone. MKS-80 w/MPG will be over $1K, so you need to consider how you are going to program your synth(s).

 

 

cheers,

Ian

[CardioGram]

You guys are great--

 

thanks all for putting so much thought into my quandry. (and a nice quandry it is )

 

The only problem now, is that I sympathize/agree with all of you!!

 

 

In particular

-I seem to be getting clear about the comparison between eg. an A6 and an xpander... trouble is I still want both

 

-and, i know i would love anything from roland; i always do. i only would feel a bit strange to own 4 rolands (and a futureretro 303 clone) before I own any oberheim, moog, etc.

 

 

The effects point is well-taken, also.

 

So unfortunately I will still have to ponder it and think for myself... and try to find and play some of these.

 

 

 

 

ps.

It could just be a mirage, but is $1470us a good price for an xpander?

[droolmaster0]

Originally posted by CardioGram ps. It could just be a mirage, but is $1470us a good price for an xpander?

 

Well, if it's really a Mirage, it's not worth nearly that much

 

I'd say $1470 is about right. I've seen them for a little less. I paid $1500 for mine recently.

[CardioGram]

heh.

 

You've already been very descriptive, but if I may pry further, what was the exact thought process that led you to re-buy an xpander? what does it give you that you weren't getting elsewhere? Is it mainly the interface and modulation style?

[droolmaster0]

 

Originally posted by CardioGram heh. You've already been very descriptive, but if I may pry further, what was the exact thought process that led you to re-buy an xpander? what does it give you that you weren't getting elsewhere? Is it mainly the interface and modulation style?

 

 

Well, I sold the matrix 12 to get some $ while unemployed, so it wasn't something that I really wanted to get rid of.

 

But - would I have repurchased an xpander if it didn't have the extensive modulation capability, the oscillators that can play themselves, and the great interface? Well, no. But there are quite a few analog synths that sound good. These are what (in my mind) make this synth special.