Members wu ming Posted September 5, 2009 Members Share Posted September 5, 2009 They lack focus and I just noodle around in the scale being used, what are some good ideas or ways to make them sound better.? Over chord progression of B A C#m E+ for example I just noodle in e major shapes, some of it works but I tend to just not play as I'd like to when I play it back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jeremy_green Posted September 5, 2009 Members Share Posted September 5, 2009 Try playing chord tones so learn the arps for all those chords and practice stringing them together. Sing a line and work towards building an actual melody. Once that is developed you cans add some embellishments to make it sound as flashy as you want it to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mr.Bates Posted September 5, 2009 Members Share Posted September 5, 2009 what you need my friend is to work on your phrasing.instead of just playing randon notes from the scales, try to make a melody... sing a short phrase (one or two bars in length) and try to play it... then take the idea and develop it. play it in different places on the neck.play differently - experiment with slides, with hammer ons or pull offs. string bending. play it in different levels of intensity - intensity can be speed, number of notes, picking strength, volume... then move to a new phrase or idea... play with it a little bit... then return for the first idea and play it again... think of it like youre telling a story, or making a conversation... sometimes you have to go back and repeat things you said before, so the listener would understand you better.same with music - if a part is repeated for a second time, it sounds more familiar to the audience... of course, like everything else, dont over do it. When you play a note, do it with passion, with emotion. look at the faces of of great guitar players when they play... This takes a lot of time and practice, a good way to improve is record yourself, listen and see what things you need to do in order to improve. Also, look for scott henderson's video - melodic phrasing... and listen clapton and SRV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mhr74 Posted September 5, 2009 Members Share Posted September 5, 2009 Try playing chord tones so learn the arps for all those chords and practice stringing them together. Sing a line and work towards building an actual melody. Once that is developed you cans add some embellishments to make it sound as flashy as you want it to be. This. Especially work on developing a rhythm for your melodic motifs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mosiddiqi Posted September 6, 2009 Members Share Posted September 6, 2009 ^^^ What they've said. A good rule of thumb for lead guitar is "if you can't sing your line, don't play it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GreenAsJade Posted September 6, 2009 Members Share Posted September 6, 2009 I'm only a beginner in this area, but two other pieces of advice I've read (in addition to the above) are - Learn other people's solos. Transcribe them by ear yourself. - Experiment with simple things that break the scale box. For example, allow yourself only one note. Find meaningful ways to insert it! Staccato attacks. Long soulful sustains. Go to two notes, but they must be on the same string. Two notes that must be on different strings. For something differnet, try a rule that you're allowed one bend per bar (no other notes) Stuff like that. GaJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GreenAsJade Posted September 6, 2009 Members Share Posted September 6, 2009 Try playing chord tones so learn the arps for all those chords and practice stringing them together. I really want to learn this. I'm having trouble getting started. If someone could post a "for example" that sounds OK... along the lines of "see, do it like this", or if there's a lesson out there to be pointed to ... that would be _great_ Thanks, GaJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wader2k Posted September 6, 2009 Members Share Posted September 6, 2009 These topics are very helpful to my current needs.....melodic phrasing, chord tones, and arpeggios are things I'm just starting to look into..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SlaveNewWorld0 Posted September 6, 2009 Members Share Posted September 6, 2009 Try playing chord tones so learn the arps for all those chords and practice stringing them together. Sing a line and work towards building an actual melody. Once that is developed you cans add some embellishments to make it sound as flashy as you want it to be. Great advice ^ By using arpeggios to "lead into" a more linear scale phrase (or vice versa), you instantly create the variation you're looking for. It's chord tones that give the solo definition, with the other scale tones being used to "dress" those phrases. I like to keep them clearly separated in my own mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mosiddiqi Posted September 6, 2009 Members Share Posted September 6, 2009 I really want to learn this. I'm having trouble getting started. If someone could post a "for example" that sounds OK... along the lines of "see, do it like this", or if there's a lesson out there to be pointed to ... that would be _great_Thanks,GaJ This may be useful GaJ..I just very quickly recorded a Amin7/D7/Emin7/Amin7 progression and played a melody targeting strong chord tones. Just aiming for the 3rds and the roots of the target chords, nothing fancy at all. http://www.box.net/shared/yr71ir918q Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jasco Posted September 8, 2009 Members Share Posted September 8, 2009 They lack focus and I just noodle around in the scale being used, what are some good ideas or ways to make them sound better.? You've got a lot of great advice already. One thing I'd add is don't forget to breathe when you're playing. Play when you breathe out (like singing or talking), and don't play when you breathe in. Viola! Instant phrasing, which will add focus and reduce noodling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GreenAsJade Posted September 8, 2009 Members Share Posted September 8, 2009 This may be useful GaJ..I just very quickly recorded a Amin7/D7/Emin7/Amin7 progression and played a melody targeting strong chord tones. Just aiming for the 3rds and the roots of the target chords, nothing fancy at all.http://www.box.net/shared/yr71ir918q Sweet. I can try that sort of thing - can't wait. Can you elaborate the next step (which seems more elusive to me) ... how to arpeggios fit into this? Without sounding like "he's playing arpeggios"... Thanks!!! GaJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mosiddiqi Posted September 8, 2009 Members Share Posted September 8, 2009 Sweet. I can try that sort of thing - can't wait.Can you elaborate the next step (which seems more elusive to me) ... how to arpeggios fit into this? Without sounding like "he's playing arpeggios"...Thanks!!!GaJ Cool!...Well, the second phrase..after the first "A" note...is an Aminor arpeggio!(triad in fact)..but I started it on the 5th, E..so the first four notes of the lick are A...then E A C, which is the Aminor arp...remember, you don't have to start it on the root every time. The good news being that you didn't spot it was an arpeggio!..so you didn't think "Mo sounds like he's playing arps" Think of each triad or 4 note arppegio as just that..3 or 4 notes you can use to outline/emphasise certain qualities of the underlying chord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GreenAsJade Posted September 8, 2009 Members Share Posted September 8, 2009 Well, the second phrase..after the first "A" note...is an Aminor arpeggio! Dang! It is too! So ... Is this like saying "use your knowledge of arpeggios in helping select which notes from the scale to play based on the underlying chords"? Is this what people are meaning when they say "know your arpeggios"? That knowing Dmin arp is good way to pull the 3 "Dmin" notes out of the 7 note Amin scale that I'd have been thinking about if I were noodling over that progression? GaJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mosiddiqi Posted September 8, 2009 Members Share Posted September 8, 2009 Dang! It is too! So ... Is this like saying "use your knowledge of arpeggios in helping select which notes from the scale to play based on the underlying chords"? Is this what people are meaning when they say "know your arpeggios"? That knowing Dmin arp is good way to pull the 3 "Dmin" notes out of the 7 note Amin scale that I'd have been thinking about if I were noodling over that progression? GaJ Exactly!..focus on the strong notes..which will be the chord tones..which you'll get from the arpeggio..use the other scale notes for colour. In the example I recorded, I decided I was going to target the 3rd (F#) of the D7 chord from an Aminor triad arpeggio. So, my choices were: Aminor arp ending on E - F# : Whole tone up to the target note Aminor arp ending on A - F# : Minor third down to the target note Aminor arp ending on C - F# : Tritone Down to the target note ( which is the one I played) Practice hearing what each of those interval movements to your target note sound like..that way you're more in control of what you're playing rather than just noodling and hoping to get a nice transition to the next chord. If I'd played a Amin7 arp leading to the F#..then of course I'd also have the "G" note to play with..which would make a smooth transition down to F#..half a step. Of course, I could target different notes in the D7 chord... Rinse and repeat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members davydusade Posted September 8, 2009 Members Share Posted September 8, 2009 They lack focus and I just noodle around in the scale being used, what are some good ideas or ways to make them sound better.? Over chord progression of B A C#m E+ for example I just noodle in e major shapes, some of it works but I tend to just not play as I'd like to when I play it back. Step outside the oyster!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members davydusade Posted September 8, 2009 Members Share Posted September 8, 2009 This may be useful GaJ..I just very quickly recorded a Amin7/D7/Emin7/Amin7 progression and played a melody targeting strong chord tones. Just aiming for the 3rds and the roots of the target chords, nothing fancy at all. http://www.box.net/shared/yr71ir918q Simple yet very tasteful.......Americans are to Metalized anymore to take time and think of target tones...And yes Im American but Ive been through the wanking and all that jazz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members scooter Posted September 8, 2009 Members Share Posted September 8, 2009 You've got a lot of great advice already. One thing I'd add is don't forget to breathe when you're playing. Play when you breathe out (like singing or talking), and don't play when you breathe in. Viola! Instant phrasing, which will add focus and reduce noodling. I will try this myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jasco Posted September 8, 2009 Members Share Posted September 8, 2009 I will try this myself. OK, after you try that, here's the next concept: The breathing awareness will now have you making phrases with endings. The most important note in your phrase, by far, is the note you end on. Starting note, is the next most important note. The notes in the middle don't really matter too much, as long as they are in time. However, that ending note is all important. It will either validate or destroy your entire phrase. It's important you hit the right note to end phrases. But it's also important that you hit it right in time, with confidence, and with the tone and articulation you want. One good exercise once you have some phrasing going, is to pick out the ending note you want before you start your phrase. That way you know it's going to be a good note (I'll assume you've picked a chord tone) and you will hit it with confidence because you already know what note you're targeting for the end of your phrase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jeremy_green Posted September 8, 2009 Members Share Posted September 8, 2009 Exactly!..focus on the strong notes..which will be the chord tones..which you'll get from the arpeggio..use the other scale notes for colour. In the example I recorded, I decided I was going to target the 3rd (F#) of the D7 chord from an Aminor triad arpeggio. So, my choices were: Aminor arp ending on E - F# : Whole tone up to the target note Aminor arp ending on A - F# : Minor third down to the target note Aminor arp ending on C - F# : Tritone Down to the target note ( which is the one I played) Practice hearing what each of those interval movements to your target note sound like..that way you're more in control of what you're playing rather than just noodling and hoping to get a nice transition to the next chord. If I'd played a Amin7 arp leading to the F#..then of course I'd also have the "G" note to play with..which would make a smooth transition down to F#..half a step. Of course, I could target different notes in the D7 chord... Rinse and repeat GaJ just so you know I am with Mo on this 100%. I view arps as my safe notes or phrase ending notes. (Pentatonics also but that is a different thread : ) I also typically start solos using an arp of some kind. All of this ties in with what Jasco is saying. Start strong and end strong then in the middle you can wander. So in my mind it is kind of like Arp go where it leads diatonic or not Arp You really could say "chord tone" in place of "arp" there but the reason i didnt say that is because once you get to understand and use this the next step is chord substitution. For example over a C major chord I know the strongest subs are E minor and G major. So may times I will substitute one of these arps You follow what i mean there? That is kind of a Larry Carlton trick: Using the notes of a C Major triad - I can use: C Major E minor G Major Were it a minor chord say A minor _ can use A minor C Major E minor See how they alternate Major then minor then Major. Just using the notes in the chords - its a nice easy way to memorize this. Try it out and get a feel for the sounds. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wader2k Posted September 8, 2009 Members Share Posted September 8, 2009 You've got a lot of great advice already.One thing I'd add is don't forget to breathe when you're playing.Play when you breathe out (like singing or talking), and don't play when you breathe in.Viola! Instant phrasing, which will add focus and reduce noodling. this is harder than it sounds! i'm not sure i breath right while doing anything.....and it seems to make it more difficult when actually THINKING about how you're doing it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GreenAsJade Posted September 9, 2009 Members Share Posted September 9, 2009 ^^^ this is true! Nonetheless even the "principle" of it is good, eh? Make your phrasing breathe. I have been conscious of this, and this is good reinforcement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GreenAsJade Posted September 9, 2009 Members Share Posted September 9, 2009 Exactly!..focus on the strong notes..which will be the chord tones..which you'll get from the arpeggio..use the other scale notes for colour. In the example I recorded, I decided I was going to target the 3rd (F#) of the D7 chord from an Aminor triad arpeggio. So, my choices were: Aminor arp ending on E - F# : Whole tone up to the target note Aminor arp ending on A - F# : Minor third down to the target note Aminor arp ending on C - F# : Tritone Down to the target note ( which is the one I played) Practice hearing what each of those interval movements to your target note sound like..that way you're more in control of what you're playing rather than just noodling and hoping to get a nice transition to the next chord. If I'd played a Amin7 arp leading to the F#..then of course I'd also have the "G" note to play with..which would make a smooth transition down to F#..half a step. Of course, I could target different notes in the D7 chord... Rinse and repeat This is so exactly the information/ideas that I have been looking for ... I'm over the moon. And Jeremy's extension/refinement (though I have yet to figure out how to know what chord substititions work, but I will walk before trying to run). Thanks!!!! GaJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mosiddiqi Posted September 9, 2009 Members Share Posted September 9, 2009 This is so exactly the information/ideas that I have been looking for ... I'm over the moon. And Jeremy's extension/refinement (though I have yet to figure out how to know what chord substititions work, but I will walk before trying to run). Thanks!!!! GaJ Cool, I'm glad it was useful! practice it to death and we'll then bombard you with arpeggio substitution ideas for more tone colours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Knottyhed Posted September 9, 2009 Members Share Posted September 9, 2009 They lack focus and I just noodle around in the scale being used, what are some good ideas or ways to make them sound better.?Over chord progression of B A C#m E+ for example I just noodle in e major shapes, some of it works but I tend to just not play as I'd like to when I play it back. Sing what you play, play what you sing. It'll make you think about what you play rather than randomly 'grab' notes from a scale you think should fit. I've found studying music reading helpful, because practicing it gives you a really strong sense of 3 and 4 bar phrasing (or any time sig you practice reading in I suppose). The rythm/timing is even more important than the notes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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