Im sorry but Im not seeing the patterns

[andy thompson]

Right at the start here, thought Id learn the major scale this weekend, well I printed some positions..1-5 of C major, and Im not seeing any patterns, Im not grasping where the octave changes and most disappointing Im not getting the root or tonic.

 

 

What am I doing wrong..?

[polishpaul]

Re patterns.....

 

.....for any major scale the pattern is:

 

Root (the first note of the scale), then T TS T T TS.

 

T being a tone, or two frets, and S being a semitone, or one fret.

 

So if you start on C, the root, the next note is one tone (two frets) up, to D. Then another tone up to E, then a semitone to F, a tone up to G, a tone up to A, a tone up to B and a semitone up to C, the octave.

 

That's the pattern for all major scales. Other scales, such as natural minor, are modifications of this.

 

Is this what you're talking about?

[polishpaul]

Quoting you:

 

"...I printed some positions..1-5 of C major, and Im not seeing any patterns".

 

I don't know what you mean here.

[andy thompson]

PLAY ELECTRIC GUITAR.NET The C major scale full fret board.

[polishpaul]

 

PLAY ELECTRIC GUITAR.NET The C major scale full fret board.

 

 

 

I think you've seen patterns which you should deal with a bit further down the line, once you're familiar with scale construction.......then you can apply that knowledge to the fretboard.

[andy thompson]

Ill try and upload an image tomorrow.

[polishpaul]

Okay....

[windmill]

G'day Andy

to repeat what Paul said in slightly different way

 

Its not the pattern you should learn, it is the formula from which the pattern is derived.

[1001gear]

Major and minor - perhaps all scales are very much an ear thing. You learn the fingerings and patterns so you can play them but it's your ears that keep track of 'em.

[jonfinn]

Andy, it's hard to say what's wrong based on the information provided. It's possible that nothing's wrong at all. Visual patterns are commonly used for guitar for a lot of reasons. One of those reasons is that many people are visual learners. But not everybody.

 

There are three primary learning styles: Visual (learning by seeing), Auditory (learning by hearing), and Tactile (learn by doing). Most people have one dominant style. In my case, I'm primarily an Auditory learner, with Tactile a strong secondary.

 

Could that be the case for you too? If so, visual patterns will be meaningless to you.

[andy thompson]

Yeah, Im just going over them now, funny, thought I had a little tactile progress, but even these, I mess with fingering, slow, soft and precise then hammer ons, pull offs..good exercise.

[jamesp]

Andy, it's as easy as do-re-mi.
Here's a great G scale. Start with your middle finger on the low G (E-string 3rd fret.) Sing your do-re-mi's as you ascend the scale and you'll hear that every Do lands on a red dots (or IOW the G notes.) When you're bored with that try singing numbers and replacing every "8" with "one" (Or again IOWs the G, root, tonic, etc.) Sing "1-2-3-4-5-6-7-1-2-3..."
That's enough to start with.

[bigboy78]

Start with 1 pattern until you get the sound of the scale ingrained in your head. The other patterns are hard to visualise because they start on the "wrong" note. The pattern to work on for C major first will start at the 8th fret on the 6th string.

Say each note or scale degree as you play it. CDEFGAB or 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 when you get to 8 or C again play the 1st note (root) of the scale again so you can really hear the sound of the octave.

You won't really see pattern until you move it to say the 3rd fret and play exactly the same fingering, the octave should land in the same place realtive to your starting note - bingo - now you can play G major as well

9th fret - woo-hoo - C# Major - it takes a keyboard player years to get to C# major scale and it's like the 3rd one you've "learnt"

Now go back and say the note names instead of numbers. Once this in nailed in your brain, move to the second pattern of C major. Which note (number) does it start on? Where would you have to start it to make it a G scale? Even though you starting on a differnt note, remember 1 is always the root for the time being.

The "pattern" on the fretboard are like those "Magic Eye" pictures that were popular a few years back. You know the ones you stare at for ages until a picture jumps out..........you just need run for fingers and eyes over the fretboard for a while.....like 15-20 years......and the patterns magically appear bfore your eyes

[polishpaul]

.........you just need run for fingers and eyes over the fretboard for a while.....like 15-20 years......and the patterns magically appear bfore your eyes

 

[polishpaul]

I'd suggest working firstly on the patterns just for C, F and G major, which can all be played with the same pattern.......at the eighth, first and third frets respectively. Also good for getting used to moving up and down the fretboard.

 

And many songs can be played using these three chords.

 

All previous advice here very good!

[andy thompson]

Thanks, yeah thats what Im doing, well some of the time. Well I guess all the time but I get a little...fluid..is that the word around the B@G strings,loads of fun for me.

 

I dont get the singing part, I mean I just want to play instrumentals, oh yeah, sorry, to get the sound of the scale in my head.

 

 

Im lusting after a stoboclip at present, the intonation on my guitar is so good, not perfect but way better and maybe better still, Im too lucky.

[JonnyPac]

This might help break up the neck... who knows...

 

[andy thompson]

This might help break up the neck... who knows...

 

I love that someone has taken the time tonumber them, this helps in seeing the octaves, cant see any fret markings though. I can compare with others to get a reference, its no biggie and I know this book is not aimed at me, thanks.

[polishpaul]

......cant see any fret markings though.

 

 

The shapes are moveable. A G major shape can be played at any fret. At the third, it's G major, at the fifth it's A major, and so on.

[girevik]

I am naturally more of a visual learner myself. I first learned how to play the major scale using the pictures in The Guitar Handbook (Ralph Denyer) and Fretboard Logic.

 

Learning to play viola forced me to be more comfortable with the auditory learning style. Now I focus on learning how something is supposed to sound, then learning how to play it, instead of learning how something looks visually before learning how it's supposed to sound.

[andy thompson]

 

I am naturally more of a visual learner myself. I first learned how to play the major scale using the pictures in The Guitar Handbook (Ralph Denyer) and Fretboard Logic. Learning to play viola forced me to be more comfortable with the auditory learning style. Now I focus on learning how something is supposed to sound, then learning how to play it, instead of learning how something looks visually before learning how it's supposed to sound.

 

 

 

I cant imagine any such time, but its good to know how deep its possible to go.

[girevik]

 

I cant imagine any such time

 

 

I don't understand what that means. I do recall you said you were an auditory learner.

[andy thompson]

Thanks.

[ozzeh]

You do not have to start or end on C to play any C scale (major included).

 

Just so long as you play all of the proper notes in a C scale, it doesn't matter where you start or stop.

 

It does help if you emphasize the C notes to make the major scale come out.

 

You can play a C major in at least 5 different locations on the neck

 

1) starting with the open C cord and playing an OPEN C scale...

 

2) Then you make an A-Form barre chord on fret #3 to form a C chord and you can play a C Major pentatonic And C Major Diatonic scale...

 

3) 5th fret : G Shaped barre chord is a C major / scale

 

4) 8th fret : E Shaped barre chord is a C major chord / scale

 

5) 10th fret : D Shaped barre chord is a C major chord / scale

 

6) 12th fret : C Shaped barre chord is a C major chord / scale

 

Check out the CAGED sequence, you can transpose each key this way.

 

Also depending on which notes you emphasize a C Major scale (diatonic or pentatonic) is also an A Minor scale (if you emphasize the A's).

 

Hope this helps!

 

and not to confuse you but you can play 7 different scale types (minor, major, phrygian, lydian, etc) off of any full major scale depending on which notes you emphasize but this is a little more complicated as you basically have to have all of the notes on the fretboard memorized to know what you're doing (and I don't).

 

Pick a book up on the CAGED sequence and learn the two corresponding scales to each key (the C shaped chord will always have a C shaped scale... A shaped chord would have an A shaped scale... so on and so forth and the chords and scales are movable... when you move the chord/scales down a fret the key changes by a half step. So for example an A-shaped chord on fret 3 is C, the same shape on fret 5 is a D chord).

 

Basically you need to learn 6 pentatonic (5 tones/notes) scales with their corresponding chords and 6 diatonic (7 tones/notes) scales and you can play phrygian, lydian, major, minor, dorian scales in any key based on those 6 shapes.

 

I recommend familiarizing yourself with the 6th and 5th strings and memorizing the notes all the way down the fretboard as these are the root notes for E-shaped Barre Chords and A-shaped Barres which are by far the two most commonly used chord shapes.

 

The D-Shape, G-Shape and C-shape are also equally important but they're a little trickier as you have to cover 4 frets while barring the root with your 1st finger. If you're unfamiliar with these chords, look them up on google. I've been playing 3 years and I wish I knew all this stuff sooner; you can literally play a C major chord progression in at least 6 or 7 different positions on the neck opposed to just 1 or two if you only know open chords... for example, you can play C - F - G (C Major I - IV - V) in every position on the neck thus making you a guitar wiz4rdz.

 

C Shaped Chord - Root 5th string

A Shaped Chord - Root 5th string

G Shaped Chord - Root 6th string

E Shaped Chord - Root 6th string

D Shaped Chord - Root 4th string

 

I would start by memorizing the open chord shapes (open C, A, G, E, D) and the open scale patterns as these only require a working knowledge of frets 1 through 4 and you can play anything in any key. The open scale patterns are a bit hard to come by as they're not even covered in a massive scale book I own. In fact, scale books are *worthless* if you have a working knowledge of the CAGED sequence. 100 pages of scales can be condensed into 12 different movable scale patterns.

 

Sorry for the long post but I love guitar theory.

ozz

 

http://www.fretjam.com/chord-shapes-and-scale-patterns.html for visuals.

[andy thompson]

Nah man, flattered you took the time to respond. Gonna take a little time to absorb. I joked about making notes, I think I might be serious now.