Accompaniment, taste, musicality

[DCurtis]

Been thinking about this a great deal the last few months.

The Bill Frisell thread, (and listening to his recordings here recently)

has intensified my ponderment. (I know, not an actual word. Don't tell)

 

I was relieved of my duties from a group last November for

(among other things) in essence, *not* over playing.

 

My experience has generally been with large groups. My first professional

job was with an R&BFunkSoul group. The job there was to support the singer

and not create a fustercluck with the other guitar player and the keyboardist.

Then a decade of playing in country, western swing groups with fiddle, steel

one or two other guitar players, and keys. Again, support the vocals, don't create a train wreck with the other instruments.

 

So fast foward, and it basically a rock, southern rock, new country

three piece, with a vocalist who plays noisy, intrusive, untasteful

electric guitar. So four pieces in actuality.

 

What this singerplayerand leader wanted was for me to, more or less,

constantly be making noise. Does playing rock, southernclassic rock mean

over playing and having little or no regard for the vocals? I'm always trying

to stay out of the way of this guy, and work around his hamfisted guitar playing

while still supporting to the song, filling out the sound, but not making an

aural wreck of things.

 

Where's the line between playing to the rock context (assuming this is the case here)

and being musical. Can't we play rock styles and still be thoughtful, musical and tasteful? I'm really not sure if I was doing the right thing by using the approach

I generally use, or if I should have been willing to simply make more noise.

[1001gear]

Think Ted Nugent? Rockers have to rock. If it's their band there's no way around not "rocking". Worse, it's always their call on what that means.

[mosiddiqi]

I think that the moment you start overthinking rock...you've ceased to rock.

 

"Being musical" is doing whatever works to express whatever you're trying to express. That could be screaming feedback or complete silence. Naturally, this is a very individual thing. I didn't post in the Frisell thread 'cos I don't enjoy his playing. I think he's boring.

 

In the scenario you describe, the problem is the ham fisted guitar player. I don't really have any suggestions for that other than sack him from his own band ...though seriously, why waste time playing with people who clearly aren't up to a standard that makes you happy?

 

Sorry, I've kind of rambled here.

[jeremy_green]

You have to be yourself and express it how you feel it to be. You have the right to play restrained. If a band leader doesn't want restrained then you are not the right guy for the job anyway. Musicians are like tools in a tool box - Pat Metheny is a MONSTER jazz player... but he has NO IDEA how to get a good heavy distorted sound. Randy Rhoads was an insane metal player... but i am not sure i would hire him for a be-bop gig. Sayin?

 

I can't begin to psycho analyze your leaders intent... maybe he is right... without hearing it, it is hard to say. Or maybe he is an insecure human who views your talents as a threat to his.

 

In principal I certainly agree. I don't know many singers who wouldn't appreciate you being respectful of their space....

 

How do you think it sounded? Were they covers? Did your part represent the piece as it was recorded?

 

As I said - you need to play honest to yourself... from the heart. If it isn't honest people can just hear it.

[jonfinn]

 

Been thinking about this a great deal the last few months. The Bill Frisell thread, (and listening to his recordings here recently) has intensified my ponderment. (I know, not an actual word. Don't tell) I was relieved of my duties from a group last November for (among other things) in essence, *not* over playing. My experience has generally been with large groups. My first professional job was with an R&BFunkSoul group. The job there was to support the singer and not create a fustercluck with the other guitar player and the keyboardist. Then a decade of playing in country, western swing groups with fiddle, steel one or two other guitar players, and keys. Again, support the vocals, don't create a train wreck with the other instruments. So fast foward, and it basically a rock, southern rock, new country three piece, with a vocalist who plays noisy, intrusive, untasteful electric guitar. So four pieces in actuality. What this singerplayer�and leader wanted was for me to, more or less, constantly be making noise. Does playing rock, southernclassic rock mean over playing and having little or no regard for the vocals? I'm always trying to stay out of the way of this guy, and work around his hamfisted guitar playing while still supporting to the song, filling out the sound, but not making an aural wreck of things. Where's the line between playing to the rock context (assuming this is the case here) and being musical. Can't we play rock styles and still be thoughtful, musical and tasteful? I'm really not sure if I was doing the right thing by using the approach I generally use, or if I should have been willing to simply make more noise.

 

I think you decide for yourself where that line is. This might be a case of the "One man's trash/another man's treasure".

 

Your description gave me the impression that the fustercluck was in full-swing before you got there. Maybe you got fired because you weren't willing to make it worse? If that's true, perhaps getting fired might have been for the best?

 

How DARE you play with taste and discretion????? What's the world coming to?

[DCurtis]

Thanks guys, all very thoughtful responses.

 

Although with regard to Mo, I'd have to say

there certainly appears to room for sensitivity

to the music going on around us, even in rock.

 

Someone said, it's up to us individually to draw the line.

I agree. But there's a bigger question I want to ask, and

I struggle to adequately express it.

 

It seems to be something along the lines of, "Do I compromise

the way I play in order to play the style appropriately"

And when I say "I" I mean for you to ask yourself the question

and tell the rest of us what you would do.

 

Frankly, I think it comes off better from a listeners perspective

if a band presents songs, that are clean and tight. By clean,

I mean everyone listening to everyone else, and making room for each other, supporting

the singer and trying to create a mood and ambience with every song.

Never underestimate the audience, no matter how full of beer they are.

 

I mean, even "Simple Man" by Lynyrd Skynyrd can be played

artfully and sensitively, or it can be bar trash.

 

Oh, and yes, this was a cover band I initially was writing about.

[1001gear]

It's role playing. You don't compromise anything. You may gotta swallow () but that's ennertainment.