quick help on a song analysis

[possopo]

hi, I'm currently trying to improve my knowledge of theory and I'm working on basic tunes trying to analyse them.

here is David Gray's This Years Love :

C D C D C D C D G

and then Em A C and back to the first line

 

I presume the first part is in G major but then...

Em is the relative minor of G so no problem (I would keep playing G major)

but what should then be Am turns into A. I see that I can play E natural minor with a natural 6th (instead of a flattened 6th) but scale or mode is that ?

I would then go back to G major.

 

when I start playing the song, I see that playing G major on A works just like a natural 6th also kind of works. the first gives a sense of tension (and at the same time makes the progression natural in the solo since I keep playing the same scale), the second stresses on the A chord (on the major 3rd of course). the second should be more natural (no clash between notes) but on the contrary, the first definitely sounds more natural to my ears (but more tense at the same time, I hope I make myself understood :/).

 

could someone please explain the theory behind this ?

 

also, is this A major(-ed) something that's used quite a lot in pop music ? I guess so but it doesn't seem to be modal interchange right ? so what is it ?

 

thanks a lot for reading and helping:)

[Virgman]

There may be mysterious theory going on here but why waste time over it.

 

You could think of the A as being the V of the key of D. Em is the iim of key of D, G is the IV of D. So a key change to D for the A chord. But why would you complicate it so.

 

Over the A major chord just play the arpeggio of A major. Use the chord tones of A major = A - C# - E

 

That is what I would do. Sometimes a cigar is really just a cigar.

 

[possopo]

hmm, I'm always think of arpeggios as the answer when there's no better answer. you don't know what to do ? play the arpeggio because it works all the time.

but what you're saying is that A is the dominant of D so that makes this a secondary dominant (the dominant of any chord in the scale can be played to give a certain mood without making you feel like you're changing keys). am I correct ?

[gennation]

If you end the song, what chord do you end on? And, if that chord is a major chord, would it end on a maj7 or 7th harmony...like if you end on C is it Cmaj7 or C7, or if you end on G is it Gmaj7 or G7? And if that chord is minor, is it a minor triad or a m7 chord?

 

The reason I ask is that looking at this progression, without a guitar in hand, it looks diatonic root wise but it also looks like could be using borrowed major and minor chords from a tonic...what's the tonic is the question, and is it maj7, 7th, m7, etc...

[Krank'N]

Sometimes it helps to write out the chord progression and find the strongest or most logical HIDDEN melody line.
After filling in the blanks the most clear tonality is C lydian. It could be other stuff but thats simplest given the chords.
Then I would determine the phrase in REVERSE.This is to give the cadence a strong emphasis. Here the 5th of the final C chord is G so ending there would be stronger than just ending on a C.Next to give the melody a simple flow choose steps that are semi-tones or tones apart for the sequence.
The next to last chord is A but Im inclined to say its A5 or Am as a C# would be a bit dissonant before C major.
A is closer to the destination G than either C or E. So the phrase ends A>G.
The prior chord is Em and this offers 2 choices for motion within a tone G or B. I prefer B as its the 5th and again makes the Em chord stronger for the final 3 chords.
So that makes the final 3 notes B A G over the Em Am C chords. Heres the simple melody line that is "hidden" in the chords ->
C D E D C D E F# G / B A G. Notice that theres a jump of more than a tone when moving to the final 3 chords and this also adds power to the end of the phrase. It couldve just hung on the G with >C D E D C D E F# G / G A G .
Of course theres room for embellishment or you could tell me to fly a kite. As I said theres more than one way to skin a cat. Good luck:thu:

[JonR]

Listening to the song, it's in Ab major, but I'll transpose to G for the sake of this thread....

 

The C-D section (2 beats each) is a repeated IV-V vamp with a clear resolution to G at the end. There's a couple of beats on Em before it goes back and repeats that verse section.

 

|C - D - |C - D - |C - D - |G - - Em|

|C - D - |C - D - |C - D - |G - - -|

 

Then the bridge:

|Em - - - |A - |C ____ (C chord held for 4 beats)

 

That's followed by the verse sequence again, ie, the C of the bridge goes straight on to the C of the verse.

 

The A chord has no clear function. It could be a secondary dominant - V of D as Virgman says - but of course it doesn't resolve to D. However, you could say the resolution is delayed - by those two C chords, followed (eventually) by a D. IMO that's debatable. (I've heard other songs where an A chord occurs in key of G, and is followed by C and then D. There's often a hint of delayed resolution (as V of D), but rarely as delayed and inconclusive as it is here.)

 

A perhaps more likely explanation is that Em-A is a very common pair of chords (and David Gray would know that). If you're playing an Em chord, not too concerned about what ought to come next, A would be an easy and common choice. There's no need for it: there's no C# in the melody anywhere, but then there's no C at this point either. So while he could easily have played an Am and stayed in key, he either felt that was too dull, or just hit an A chord in the first place and liked it. (In fact he's singing a G at that point, so it's an A7 effectively.) Also, if he'd played Am(7), he might have thought that would be too similar to the following C chord.

At least, the A is a nice surprise at that point in the song, preventing it from sounding too pedestrian (it's rather a dull sequence apart from that).

 

To look at it a slightly different way, the main melody note through all 3 chords of the bridge is G. So he's selecting various chords to harmonize that note in particular - and trying to avoid using G because that would be dull. Em is good, and so is C. What else has a G note in it? Am7? Yes, but too ordinary and too like C. Eb major? Well yes, but way too strange for this tune. A7 is a good option: not too far "out", but not too boringly "in".

 

A(7) fits the melody, it flows logically from Em, it flows logically to C. It only has one note that's out of key (C#), and that could be part of a nice voice-leading line from D (on an Em7) down to C. (He doesn't exploit that, but we've heard this kind of change so much in other songs we don't find it unnatural.)

Also, the A actually makes the following C sound quite strong - better than it would after Am7; he seems to like the A-C change so much he lets that C chord ring. It's as if, after A, the C is another surprise. IOW, Em-A has a certain logic (ii-V in D major), over-riding its chromaticism; but hearing A-C lurches in another direction: away from a possibly expected D chord, and back to something more firmly in G major.

 

But if you want a short concise label for the A chord - I dunno! "Secondary dominant" (V/V) is a classic one, but I'm not quite sure that's what it is here. "Borrowed II from G lydian" might be another; but even less convincing, IMO.

[possopo]

 

The next to last chord is A but Im inclined to say its A5 or Am as a C# would be a bit dissonant before C major

 

it's actually my main concern. it's definitely an A major:)

 

I played your melody n the tune and it makes total sense. I admit I didn't quite understand your explanation but it makes me feel like I still have a very long wat to go to master theory !

[Krank'N]

Well if it really is A major then its an example of stepping outside or bending the rules. I havent ever heard the tune and I cant comment on what was going thru the artists mind when choosing A major. Jon R and I reached some simalar conclussions. We both preferred Am (tho he chose Am7 after hearing the singer stay on G).He gave the tonality as G major and in the really big picture C lydian is just a branch on the G major tree. IF the song really uses A major then the C# would add tension for the listener and this may have been done to spice up the arrangement or as a stylistic tool.

[JonR]

 

(tho he chose Am7 after hearing the singer stay on G).He gave the tonality as G major and in the really big picture C lydian is just a branch on the G major tree. IF the song really uses A major then the C# would add tension for the listener and this may have been done to spice up the arrangement or as a stylistic tool.

Right. And there's nothing very unusual about it, as I think you'll hear:

 

[JonR]

 

it's actually my main concern. it's definitely an A major:) I played your melody n the tune and it makes total sense. I admit I didn't quite understand your explanation but it makes me feel like I still have a very long wat to go to master theory !

There's no need to "master" it. (I don't think I have, anyway.)

Just open your ears to any possibility. Don't let any theory persuade you that something is "wrong" (such as a chord that doesn't "belong"). If it sounds right, it IS right, and there will be a theory to explain it (well, to label it anyway); but you don't need to know it.

 

I doubt David Gray is a theory expert; he just experiments with chords till he finds the ones he likes. That's how we should all work.

[polishpaul]

Having a look at this thread might help:

 

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/showthread.php?2867299-A-baffling-chord-progression-in-an-Amy-Winehouse-song....what-s-going-on-here&highlight=amy+winehouse

 

Chords where they "shouldn't" be ! It's music, though.

 

There are a couple of audio loops I made of the progression....you can find the link to them in post #9....downloadable from my box.com file-sharing account....safe! The files have the words "half" and "full" in them - as I remember, the "half" file is one channel recorded as mono so the guitar stands out more clearly. The "full" one is....full, in stereo, ie the original.

[possopo]

thanks guys, I'm slowing making progress. you're being super helpful.

my main goal is not to master music theory (I even think it's a bit boring and I also think it only comes to explain musical practice). my main goal is to be able to compose songs quite naturally. sometimes, I think I have an idea and it takes a million chords before I can finally play what I was thinking about. probably because I am totally lost in notes and scales and I don't clearly see where the music goes.

now I'll try a new song:)

I'll go see the Amy Winehouse progression a little later, this seems rather tricky !

[Krank'N]

FWIW After thinking about the final 3 chords of this sequence, I believe the song would sound better with Dsus A G if you stick with A major instead of Am. At least then there would be cause for the C# with the voice motion -D C# C. Then one could justify the line as a temporary modulation from C lydian to D and back.

[JonR]

FWIW After thinking about the final 3 chords of this sequence, I believe the song would sound better with Dsus A G if you stick with A major instead of Am. At least then there would be cause for the C# with the voice motion -D C# C. Then one could justify the line as a temporary modulation from C lydian to D and back.

Maybe you should suggest that to David Gray .

 

I mean, there's nothing wrong with your suggestion, but then there's nothing wrong with his progression either (IMHO).