new song analysis : Mamas and Papas' California Dreamin'

[possopo]

hi everyone,

currently working on this tune, here is the chord sequence :

 

C#m - B - A - B -

G#7 - - - - - A -

E - G#7 - C#m - A -

G#7 - - - - - - -

 

 

all chords fit the same scale except for G#7 (it "should" be Gm7).

I hear that the two most important note are C# and G#. but is the song in C#, G#, is it alternaly changing from C# to G#...

 

the song seems to starts in C# natural minor (C# D# E F# G# A B)

 

but then comes this G#7 (definitely a very important chord) an I don't really get it.

this C bugs me. when I look at the C# natural minor, it doesn't replace a note but goes between B and C#. so I'd say blue note.

 

I'm thinking that the root is now changing to G# and I'd play a G# phrygian with the addition of a major 3rd. the problem is that when I read that, it looks too complicated to be true.

I can simplify and play a minor pentatonic but I'm really kind of lost.

 

so any help would be greatly appreciated:)

what should be the right analysis of this song ?

[JonR]

hi everyone, currently working on this tune, here is the chord sequence : C#m - B - A - B - G#7 - - - - - A - E - G#7 - C#m - A - G#7 - - - - - - - all chords fit the same scale except for G#7 (it "should" be Gm7).

Not if the key is C# minor. G#7 is the correct chord.

(And btw, I think you meant "G#m7", which is the v chord in C# natural minor )

 

This progression is a variant of what's known as the "Andalusian cadence" - because it's standard in Spanish flamenco - Am-G-F-E (E major, not E minor). I'm sure if you play that (2 beats per chord) you'll find it very familiar! It's not just common in flamenco, you hear it in pop, jazz and rock music too. (California Dreamin' is by no means unusual.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andalusian_cadence

(They strangely omit this song from their list.)

 

The V chord in a minor key is traditionally changed from minor to major in order to make a stronger cadence (resolution) back to the tonic. Eg, in key of A minor, using E major provides a G# "leading tone" to make it pull stronger back to A.

This practice results in what's known as "harmonic minor" (because the alteration has improved the harmonic function of the chords). The "A harmonic minor" scale is A B C D E F G# - but this scale wouldn't be used on the whole sequence (it doesn't fit G for a start), only on the E chord. Otherwise it would be natural minor.

(Just occasionally, you might find "melodic minor" being used on the E chord: A B C D E F# G# - but usually only in melodies, and only when rising up to the A note.)

A harmonic minor will also fit Am and F, and is worth trying, to see if you like the sound - the more you use that scale, the more "Spanish" it will sound - which I guess is not totally inappropriate for California!

 

BTW, capo on fret 4 will allow you to play the key of C# minor with A minor shapes - which is how they played it.

[possopo]

your explanation is crystal clear, thanks !

I'm slowly putting together pieces of the puzzle wow !

 

just a side note : now I see the common flattening of 7th on a major scale as the exact opposite of this, sharpening the 7th on a minor scale. the first idea is to give the major scale a less final and obvious feel, to keep it a bit in the air, the second idea is to make the natural minor a bit more focused feel, to make it more down-to-earth. wow again (well, my view on this might not be super clear to others but it makes total sense in my head and on my guitar too so... wow !) !

[JonR]

your explanation is crystal clear, thanks ! I'm slowly putting together pieces of the puzzle wow ! just a side note : now I see the common flattening of 7th on a major scale as the exact opposite of this, sharpening the 7th on a minor scale. the first idea is to give the major scale a less final and obvious feel, to keep it a bit in the air, the second idea is to make the natural minor a bit more focused feel, to make it more down-to-earth. wow again (well, my view on this might not be super clear to others but it makes total sense in my head and on my guitar too so... wow !) !

That's pretty much how it makes sense to me too .

Remember (when composing) you have the choice. In either a major or minor key you can use the traditional major (dom7) V chord, to get the firmest resolution to the tonic; or you can choose the more "open-ended", or "modal" feel of the b7.

That means the minor key becomes aeolian mode (or maybe dorian if you prefer that), and the major key becomes mixolydian mode.

 

You can evem mix both feels in the same tune - the major/mixolydian combination in particular is very common in rock (ie, you'll often see both a major V chord, and a major bVII chord).

The aeolian/harmonic minor combination is actually traditional anyway - it would be less common to use aeolian mode exclusively, although it does happen.

[polishpaul]

Good-looking thread....probably has heels and long legs !

 

More seriously....

 

....kind of fundamental this kind of thing, and is of great interest to me at the moment (the thread!).

 

I just wanted to make the point that it's a bit of a waste of time just reading this and thinking about it. The important thing to do is to actually play the material in question, and judge for yourself. Then apply the same ideas to other progressions, and figure out what you like....

 

....whilst constantly coming back to have a think about what you're playing (and what you like) and how the theory relates to it.

 

Ultimately, though, the noise you make is king. That is the music, be it great or otherwise.

[possopo]

I beg to differ Paul.

my problem is not really practice. I'm currently asking for help on songs I already know how to play and solo over. the thing is that since I always soloed by ear, I never really applied any kind of theory. it was OK because but it made the whole thing much harder to memorize.... and impossible to apply again.

with what I'm slowly learning now, I start to understand what I'm actually doing with my fingers. I can experiment new things, I can understand songs and I can feel the music better. I must have played the guitar for 10 years without even having a clue what a V-I chord sequence was. now that I know, I'm getting used to the sound of it, I can hear it better, I know how to "distort" the sequence, I can make modulations...

 

it's really a lot easier when you know the theory and when you know exactly how to "read" a song (note that you can sometimes read it in different ways but they're all good). easier if you want to try new adventurous solos, easier if you want to make your own music by borrowing what you like...

and best of all, it makes me expand my music vocabulary a LOT !

[polishpaul]

I beg to differ Paul. my problem is not really practice. I'm currently asking for help on songs I already know how to play and solo over. the thing is that since I always soloed by ear, I never really applied any kind of theory. it was OK because but it made the whole thing much harder to memorize.... and impossible to apply again. with what I'm slowly learning now, I start to understand what I'm actually doing with my fingers. I can experiment new things, I can understand songs and I can feel the music better. I must have played the guitar for 10 years without even having a clue what a V-I chord sequence was. now that I know, I'm getting used to the sound of it, I can hear it better, I know how to "distort" the sequence, I can make modulations... it's really a lot easier when you know the theory and when you know exactly how to "read" a song (note that you can sometimes read it in different ways but they're all good). easier if you want to try new adventurous solos, easier if you want to make your own music by borrowing what you like... and best of all, it makes me expand my music vocabulary a LOT !

 

Good post.

 

My references to "you" were general, ie as in "one"....but my lack of aristocratic English blood bars me from the enjoyment of using the impersonal pronoun .

 

Your last post here says a lot about the place of theory in the realm of music making, and how a player can (and some might say should) use theory as a guide.

 

I dig theory because it's mysterious.

[possopo]

 

I dig theory because it's mysterious.

 

interesting. I dig theory because it's gives light to my own little musical darkness.

[DJ in FL]

Not if the key is C# minor. G#7 is the correct chord. (And btw, I think you meant "G#m7", which is the v chord in C# natural minor ) This progression is a variant of what's known as the "Andalusian cadence" - because it's standard in Spanish flamenco - Am-G-F-E (E major, not E minor). I'm sure if you play that (2 beats per chord) you'll find it very familiar! It's not just common in flamenco, you hear it in pop, jazz and rock music too. (California Dreamin' is by no means unusual.) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andalusian_cadence (They strangely omit this song from their list.) The V chord in a minor key is traditionally changed from minor to major in order to make a stronger cadence (resolution) back to the tonic. Eg, in key of A minor, using E major provides a G# "leading tone" to make it pull stronger back to A. This practice results in what's known as "harmonic minor" (because the alteration has improved the harmonic function of the chords). The "A harmonic minor" scale is A B C D E F G# - but this scale wouldn't be used on the whole sequence (it doesn't fit G for a start), only on the E chord. Otherwise it would be natural minor. (Just occasionally, you might find "melodic minor" being used on the E chord: A B C D E F# G# - but usually only in melodies, and only when rising up to the A note.) A harmonic minor will also fit Am and F, and is worth trying, to see if you like the sound - the more you use that scale, the more "Spanish" it will sound - which I guess is not totally inappropriate for California! BTW, capo on fret 4 will allow you to play the key of C# minor with A minor shapes - which is how they played it.

 

I'm impressed!