So, brute memorization of the fret board?

[NewGuyonGuitar]

Quite a few experienced guitarists here advocate learning the fretboard. Pays benefits in lots of different ways.

 

OK, brute memorization, fret by fret seems challenging. Any tips or suggestions on another way to do it to help break up the sheer tedium?

[mosiddiqi]

A big breakthrough for me was learning to recognise interval shapes, particularly the octave. Then, if you know that the note on the 5th fret low E string is an "A"..you instantly know that the notes on the D String 7th fret and B string 10th fret and G string 2nd fret are all "A"'s too...and the 5th fret high E too of course!. Don't forget to call out the name of the note when you play it!..that reinforces it in your brain.

 

Paul Gilbert talks about it a bit here in this vid..the whole vid may not be relevant...just look at the shape he draws on the fretboard...better still, draw it yourself.

 

[video=youtube;GR7yqXdKwVg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GR7yqXdKwVg

[c+t in b]

I don't like the method Mo/Gilbert are advocating. It's definitely an essential thing to know but you will fail if you are trying to memorize the fretboard completely. You will really only wind up memorizing two strings and using them as a crutch to find other notes.

 

Heres what i teach. Use the Cycle of Fourths. Find each C on every string, one at a time, using interval logic. Don't use corresponding strings for reference. Think horizontally, not vertically. After you can play C correctly on every string ascending and descending four times in a row, move on to F. Continue this for the entire cycle of fifths. Do this every day.

 

I usually have my students divide the fretboard into two zones. Open string to fifth fret. and 5th fret to 12th fret. First determine which zone the note falls in, then walk up or down from either end of the zone. Dont play the note until you're certain that particular note is on that fret

[mosiddiqi]

I don't like the method Mo/Gilbert are advocating. It's definitely an essential thing to know but you will fail if you are trying to memorize the fretboard completely. You will really only wind up memorizing two strings and using them as a crutch to find other notes. Heres what i teach. Use the Cycle of Fourths. Find each C on every string, one at a time, using interval logic. Don't use corresponding strings for reference. Think horizontally, not vertically. After you can play C correctly on every string ascending and descending four times in a row, move on to F. Continue this for the entire cycle of fifths. Do this every day. I usually have my students divide the fretboard into two zones. Open string to fifth fret. and 5th fret to 12th fret. First determine which zone the note falls in, then walk up or down from either end of the zone. Dont play the note until you're certain that particular note is on that fret

 

If only I'd had someone to tell me that (your) method when I started ..that's probably way more thorough. I could only go by my experience really.

[jeremy_green]

I say use any and all means! All the methods plus the best of them all learn to read music. Kills two birds with one stone. If you just make it part of your every day routine in some manner it will come in time. The neck is much smaller than it seems.

 

Remember:

 

The neck begins against the 12th fret - so you only need to learn up to 12

You have two E strings - so now there is only five strings to learn

Your tuning notes at the fifth and fourth fret (for the B) tell you the next string.

The seventh fret is the octave (so same name) of the string above (8th for the B)

 

So as you can see simple observation goes a long way.

[NewGuyonGuitar]

 

Heres what i teach. Use the Cycle of Fourths. Find each C on every string, one at a time, using interval logic. Don't use corresponding strings for reference. Think horizontally, not vertically. After you can play C correctly on every string ascending and descending four times in a row, move on to F. Continue this for the entire cycle of fifths. Do this every day. I usually have my students divide the fretboard into two zones. Open string to fifth fret. and 5th fret to 12th fret. First determine which zone the note falls in, then walk up or down from either end of the zone. Dont play the note until you're certain that particular note is on that fret

 

 

I'm not sure I understand. So I pick C on the low E string, it's located on the 8th fret. You suggest going horizontally, using interval logic, but there aren't any more C notes within the first 12 frets.

[Tricky]

 

I don't like the method Mo/Gilbert are advocating. It's definitely an essential thing to know but you will fail if you are trying to memorize the fretboard completely. You will really only wind up memorizing two strings and using them as a crutch to find other notes. Heres what i teach. Use the Cycle of Fourths. Find each C on every string, one at a time, using interval logic. Don't use corresponding strings for reference. Think horizontally, not vertically. After you can play C correctly on every string ascending and descending four times in a row, move on to F. Continue this for the entire cycle of fifths. Do this every day. I usually have my students divide the fretboard into two zones. Open string to fifth fret. and 5th fret to 12th fret. First determine which zone the note falls in, then walk up or down from either end of the zone. Dont play the note until you're certain that particular note is on that fret

 

 

You gave me this advice on another thread, some time ago now. I did it daily (still do) as you suggested. No doubt it works. I went from taking several minutes to complete the process for some notes initially, to fluently finding all notes, without pausing now.

 

Previously I was one of those relying on a couple of strings (5th / 6th mainly) as reference and then working my way from there.

 

Also, totally agree with Jeremy - learn to read. Among the many other benefits, it has really helped me with memorising the neck - obviously you can't play the notes if you can't find them, so while you are learning to read, you are reinforcing your brain map of the fretboard.

 

The importance of knowing the fretboard intimately seems so fundamental for me now, but for a long time it wasn't something I focused on. I highly recommend putting in the effort.

[c+t in b]

 

I'm not sure I understand. So I pick C on the low E string, it's located on the 8th fret. You suggest going horizontally, using interval logic, but there aren't any more C notes within the first 12 frets.

 

 

move on to the next string

[NewGuyonGuitar]

 

move on to the next string

 

 

Most strings seem to have only one C note. You mentioned finding them using Cycle of fourths, how does the come into play?

[c+t in b]

you're only supposed to find one note per string (within the first twelve frets.) Cycle of fourths is just the method for choosing the next pitch to search for. After you have completed C on each string 4 times ascending/descending, move to F, the next note in the series. After F, do Bb, Eb Ab etc.

[c+t in b]

If only I'd had someone to tell me that (your) method when I started ..that's probably way more thorough. I could only go by my experience really.

 

I had previously used the method you posted for many years, so I'm aware of it's ineffectiveness. When one of my teacher's initially showed me the concept i posted, he explicitly told me not to use octave reliance to figure it out, or it wouldn't work and i'd basically be cheating

[1001gear]

FWIW,

 

It's still learning an instrument so you can play music. So learn music. Look up some classes at your local college. Music history, music theory, mass piano, anything entry level. Then when you pick up your guitar, you can see through the hieroglyphics.

 

Oh yeah, chromatic scale, oh, yeah, major scale, minor scale, major triad, minor triad ...

 

Armed with these templates the fret board reveals itself.

[jonfinn]

I don't know that there was a day when I realized, "I've memorized the fretboard. Therefore, I am now awesome."

 

Learning the notes mostly came from thinking about the notes within a phrase contextually. For example, if I'm playing an F# melody note over a D chord, I don't think of it as "F#", I think of it as "3rd"

 

But then, "3rd" of a D major chord is F#.

 

Memorizing the fretboard has been about being able to do that with any degree of any chord in any key.

 

Having said that, I also found it useful to pick a fret on the guitar and name every note.

 

11th fret (low to high): Eb, Ab, Db, Gb, Bb, Eb get the idea?

[NewGuyonGuitar]

I don't know that there was a day when I realized, "I've memorized the fretboard. Therefore, I am now awesome." Learning the notes mostly came from thinking about the notes within a phrase contextually. For example, if I'm playing an F# melody note over a D chord, I don't think of it as "F#", I think of it as "3rd" But then, "3rd" of a D major chord is F#. Memorizing the fretboard has been about being able to do that with any degree of any chord in any key. Having said that, I also found it useful to pick a fret on the guitar and name every note. 11th fret (low to high): Eb, Ab, Db, Gb, Bb, Eb get the idea?

 

Well, I asked the question the other day about what determines what strings I strum when playing a chord. Response was that it's generally OK if the string is a note within the chord. When I put my fingers onto a G major chord, or E minor or any of the basic "cowboy" chords, I don't currently know what notes are in those chords. So, I thought some lightbulbs might go off if I became aware of what notes were in the chords I was playing. Up until now, I've been concentrating on remembering the bloody chord names, and that's it.

 

Others seem to advocate knowing the fretboard notes will pay dividends in other ways which seems to be something you suggest in your post.

 

P.S, Jon, I looked at some of your videos last night and you look like a friendly guy. In comparison, your photo in your avatar looks stern and foreboding, like you were about to throw a couple of your students on the rack!

[jonfinn]

 

P.S, Jon, I looked at some of your videos last night and you look like a friendly guy. In comparison, your photo in your avatar looks stern and foreboding, like you were about to throw a couple of your students on the rack!

 

 

That's my "Crazy Jack Nicholson" portrait. It's also my profile pic on Facebook. I use it because both my teenage kids have facebook accounts. Occasionally, I like post on their walls: "Remember. I am watching you. All the time."

 

Of course they both laugh when I do it, but for a minute I feel better.

[mcmurray]

Download Anki, create some flashcards (divide the fretboard up into manageable chunks, use your imagination and the other ideas suggested in this thread) and review them daily.

 

Youll have the complete fretboard burned into your long term memory within a matter of weeks.

 

Might I also suggest learning the fretboard in terms of scale degrees -solfege is killer for this purpose. The idea is to create an ear to fretboard link, learning the note names alone wont achieve this. Once again, Anki is your friend.

 

http://ankisrs.net/

[kooter82]

Something I noticed not to long ago actually helps me remember the note names easier. I don't ever recall seeing anyone describe the fret board like this but basically the root note and the flatted 5th repeat (on a diagonal) each other going up one fret at a time until the b string, where you have to do the little "bump." Do the bump over two frets and one string up, once, then the pattern continues on the last two final strings.

 

Heres a picture I made explaining it better. Sorry about the MS paint skills, that's not the point. The point is to hopefully make you realize this while giving you a different way of looking at the notes on the neck. It helped me out a lot learning them this way....

 

[JonR]

Well, I asked the question the other day about what determines what strings I strum when playing a chord. Response was that it's generally OK if the string is a note within the chord. When I put my fingers onto a G major chord, or E minor or any of the basic "cowboy" chords, I don't currently know what notes are in those chords. So, I thought some lightbulbs might go off if I became aware of what notes were in the chords I was playing. Up until now, I've been concentrating on remembering the bloody chord names, and that's it.

 

You'll find that knowing the note names in the chords helps with learning the fretboard - and vice versa.

 

I don't think I'd agree with c+t in b, btw, when he says that the octave pattern method, in itself, is "ineffective" (although I accept that's his experience). I'm with jeremy in that I think any and all methods can be used, and they will all support one another. I suspect the cycle of 4ths method works because it's so thorough and disciplined - and possibly perhaps because it avoids pattern methods. So you have to remember each note's position in its own right, not just where it is by referring to something else.

But then that's where you end up anyway, whatever method you choose. (You might start with pattern recognition, but you leave that behind once you know the notes.)

 

Personally - teaching myself - I learned the neck via chord shapes. I certainly learned what notes were in the basic cowboy chords quite early on (can't remember exactly how early, probably in the first few months). A lot of the music I played then used a capo, so that led to me recognising how taking those cowboy chord shapes up the neck produced different chord sounds; but also that the same chord sound could be played with a different shape (higher up). Eg, an A-shape chord with capo on 3 sounds like C.

 

That meant that if I knew (eg) that a C chord had the notes C E G, then all those other shapes for a C-sound chord must have the same 3 notes. So it became easy to map out the fretboard, chord by chord, section by section.

This may have taken a while before I knew the whole neck intimately (I really don't know how long, maybe a couple of years?), but I was in no hurry. I didn't regard "learning the neck" as some essential project. I just wanted to be able to play the music I wanted to play. If knowing the neck helped me do that (and of course it did) then that was the point of it. That's why I can't remember how long it took, because I was thinking about other more important stuff.

(As an analogy, it's a little like exploring a strange country while learning to read a map. Obviously the latter helps, incrementally, but what you remember later is all the interesting places you went, not how long it took you to understand the map. You forget how much the map helped, and how much you would have just found for yourself anyway.)

 

I found out many years later that the way I did it is known as the CAGED "system". To me, it wasn't a system, it was just common sense. I also knew the major scales that went with each of those 5 chords in open position (again I learned that early on, mainly from reading melodies and playing chord progressions), so that meant that when I followed those chord shapes up the neck, the scale patterns went too.

That led to being able to improvise on any chord sequence in any key, anywhere on the neck, with never any confusion about "what scale do I play on this?"

 

Of course, I also spotted those octave patterns, and other interval patterns. But everything worked together, like extra scaffolding.

Like I say, I was teaching myself and was in no hurry (I was already gigging with bands), so it was kind of haphazard as a "method". But I definitely feel that the more "systems" you employ, the quicker it has to be. None of them conflict, after all. They all contain the same info, just from a different perspective.

[GreenAsJade]

 

 

Clear, simple to understand, same principles as C+b's method, but better explained and (IMHO) more natural to follow, with more built in aids for learning it quickly.

 

GaJ

[c+t in b]

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuzB2_O8GGM Clear, simple to understand, same principles as C+b's method, but better explained and (IMHO) more natural to follow, with more built in aids for learning it quickly. GaJ

 

 

That's pretty close. However he doesn't advocate doing the same method with #'s/b's and he doesn't allow you to find the notes yourself. He simply tells you where the natural notes are. The method i stated has you perform all of the work yourself. It's not as clearly stated in this thread b/c i've written it numerous times and I can't remember the location of the original detailed post is

[monstermaker]

Try a different string each day for a month. Just the natural notes. I guarantee you'll know the neck in 30 days.

Then try the same going across the neck. Open to 12 then back. It gets easy pretty fast.

[the_SLOP_king]

Just memorize C major up and down the fretboard and fill in the notes you don't play, IE: your accidentals.