Lets talk about porn

[Rocinante]

Originally posted by TheGZeus,OnFire Mistook their post for another. How would even misunderstanding their intent make me 13 years old?

It was a genuine question, since you assert that you have no problem separating fact from fiction. I don't believe that a 13yr old has the same capacity to do so as an adult, but MORE TO THE POINT the fact that children are seeing adults not only tolerating but promoting filth like hardcore porn obviously affects their view of the world -- They learn from adults, and they learn fast! Sex crime is on the increase because young males are increasingly unable to form proper relationships with girls, as their view of sex is distorted by porn. We reap what we sow.

[TheGZeus,OnFire]

Originally posted by Rocinante Sex crime is on the increase because young males are increasingly unable to form proper relationships with girls, as their view of sex is distorted by porn. We reap what we sow.

Give me stats relative to population increase and i'll beleive they're on the increase.

 

You CANNOT prove causation, though.

 

Irregardless, taking whatone sees in a film or a picture over what one's parents tells them is up to the individual.

 

I have been looking at porn since I was about...15ish or so, and was scrounging for underwear catologues books/movies with sex scenes and the swimsuit issue....my whole life.

 

THe negative attitude towards erotica is far more destructive than the demand for more and more extreme porn.

i think it's more a RESULT of the inability to have a real relationship(and so they need more and mroe stimuli to get aroused as they have no frame of reference. I speak from experience. Took ALOT less to get me going once I'd had some real sex) than the cause of it.

 

Granted I still have some pretty freaky stuff, but it's damned hard to make something with group sex involved that I'd enjoy.

 

That and anything that would cause illness, physical harm(IE permenant scarring etc) or unwanted degredation(role playing is different from true degredation) are big turn-offs.

[TheGZeus,OnFire]

Originally posted by BryanMichael But you know when 8 year old girls are wearing sexually suggestive clothing, I think it does something to contribute to the sexualization of children in general which I think is dangerous. I'm not talking about denying that children ARE sexual beings, but removing all context for that sexuality. I don;t know.

 

Those clothes are the result of bad parenting.

 

I want to smack parents who let their children dress that way.

 

If a grown person wants to dress liek a whore, that's fine. Kids need structure and dressing like you want it is NOT for kids to do.

 

Kids are not prepered for 'real' sex and they shouldn't be allowed to behave as though they are. Otherwise they will THINk they are and do it anyway.

 

'Experimenting' is fine. In moderation and within close friendships. However I think before this happens, kids should understand what sex is so they don't start bad habits early.

[EL KABONG]

I have an amateur porn I downloaded off the net with LobsterMagnet in it. Swear to God!

[Rocinante]

Originally posted by TheGZeus,OnFire You CANNOT prove causation, though. .

Just one of many recent stories comes to mind immediately. A gang of teenage hoodies abducted, gang-raped and abused a girl in their peer group and filmed it on video-cameras, presumably to post on the Internet. Where do you suppose they got the idea it would be fun to do that? Do you suppose that kids who had not been exposed to hardcore porn would even have developed the notion of degrading another human being, especially a young girl in that particular way? No causation there, huh?

 

This is the same argument that says that saturating society with images of death and violence does not alter people's behaviour. Just because you can't prove a direct causal link on an individual basis does not mean society is not changing for the worse as a result of it.

 

All I see in your post is someone who has developed a taste for porn using moral relativity to try and justify their habit.

[Thelonius]

Originally posted by Rocinante Just one of many recent stories comes to mind immediately. A gang of teenage hoodies abducted, gang-raped and abused a girl in their peer group and filmed it on video-cameras, presumably to post on the Internet. Where do you suppose they got the idea it would be fun to do that? Do you suppose that kids who had not been exposed to hardcore porn would even have developed the notion of degrading another human being, especially a young girl in that particular way? No causation there, huh? This is the same argument that says that saturating society with images of death and violence does not alter people's behaviour. Just because you can't prove a direct causal link on an individual basis does not mean society is not changing for the worse as a result of it. All I see in your post is someone who has developed a taste for porn using moral relativity to try and justify their habit.

 

 

How do you explain someone like me who has seen all sorts of porn and never participated in the activities you speak of? An overwhelming majority of people who've seen porn don't participate in such activities. Some people participate in such activities and have never seen porn. Some guys heard the anti-rape song "Polly" by Nirvana and ended up doing the same thing you mention above. How do you think that made Kurt Cobain feel? Does that make Kurt responsible? They heard the lyrics :

 

Polly wants a cracker

Maybe she would like more food

asked me to untie her

A chase would be nice for a few

 

Is it Kurt's problem for not being a bit more clear? I never misinterpreted that song.

 

Heavy metal music may cause kids to kill other students in their schools. No question about it. But it never caused me or most people to kill someone in their school.

 

 

 

I see what you're saying is that it can be the catalyst for these walking timebombs. But I still blame the timebomb.

[Thelonius]

Originally posted by EL KABONG I have an amateur porn I downloaded off the net with LobsterMagnet in it. Swear to God!

 

 

We'll need to see that. Is papa taco in it?

[Rocinante]

Originally posted by Thelonius I see what you're saying is that it can be the catalyst for these walking timebombs. But I still blame the timebomb.

I blame the timebomb and the catalyst. The one is far less likely to exist without the other, IMO.

[80k]

i started reconsidering some of the stuff we have talked about in this thread and it suddenly hit me that between the age of 12 and 17, I saw very little porn. They were mostly pictures of naked women (playboy and penthouse type stuff), a few more hardcore pics (jizz dripping off a girl's chin), and maybe like a small handful of porno scenes from when friends rented videos.

It took way too long to download even pictures from the internet, or get them from friends on floppy disks.

So it is really hard to use our experiences in porn when comparing to what kids have today (bitorrent, kazaa, usenet, all of which allows them to see whatever the hell they want).

I think it might be really weird to be completely inundated in hardcore porn for years before ever having a real sexual experience. For most of us, we didn't really get enough porn during our younger days, so we were always more or less able to separate the fantastical and retarded world of porn from the world of real sex with real women.

so my final answer on this is that i really feel like i have no way to know whether porn today is harmful to kids, given the accessibility and volume and variety that is out there.

[TheGZeus,OnFire]

Originally posted by Rocinante Just one of many recent stories comes to mind immediately. A gang of teenage hoodies abducted, gang-raped and abused a girl in their peer group and filmed it on video-cameras, presumably to post on the Internet. Where do you suppose they got the idea it would be fun to do that? Do you suppose that kids who had not been exposed to hardcore porn would even have developed the notion of degrading another human being, especially a young girl in that particular way? No causation there, huh? This is the same argument that says that saturating society with images of death and violence does not alter people's behaviour. Just because you can't prove a direct causal link on an individual basis does not mean society is not changing for the worse as a result of it. All I see in your post is someone who has developed a taste for porn using moral relativity to try and justify their habit.

Perhaps they would have done without the video cameras had they not know there was a market for it.

To (almost years back I saw this)quote Pete Townshend "if someone does soemthing because some {censored}head tells them to they're {censored}heads themselves and would have done it anyway."

These kinds of things were happening before the internet allowed people access to as much as they wanted for free and more than they could ever need for cash.

There is no need to get personal.
MANwhy do 'tea-totalers' always have to be so blamed TOUCHY?
Oh yeah, pent up stress.

I didn't use moral reativity at all. I used basic LOGIC.
If you see something alot, do you get used to it? YES.
Des it make you want that to happen? NO.
I played Doom alot...ALOT in Jr high/High school. Guess what. I never shot anyone.
Fantasy......reality.
Two VERY different things.
Many thing that go on in the porn I have I would never want to actually happen(hence fiction). Once I thought I was DL an animated piece, and t was real. I nearly vomited and quickly shredded the file.
Fantasy......reality.



The second to last paragraph is true, because it would a require a negative proof(impossible) of causation(impossible).
The burden of proof is on you to show me that sex crimes have gone up faster than the population and somehow corelate it to porn.
I simply stated that it is IMPOSSIBLE to prove causeation. Period. Scientists don't do it. PHYSICISTS don't do it. They use correlation.
You'd need to show me a statistical analysis that related more porn being available(basically the only way to show that would be to correlate it to the rise in the internet's usage, as porn is largely an 'underground' market) to a rise in sex crime relative to population.

All I see in your posts is someone who doesn't have a taste for porn makign assertions they can't back up to forse their opinion on others.

[TheGZeus,OnFire]

Originally posted by Rocinante I blame the timebomb and the catalyst. The one is far less likely to exist without the other, IMO.

Far ferwer cigarettes would exist without matches?

 

Hell, I've been known to try knocking rocks together to have a smoke.

 

These people would get their ideas somewhere else.

[autopilot]

well, i got a question for all of you, do you usually masturbate while watching porn?

[extremelybored]

Originally posted by TheGZeus,OnFire Many thing that go on in the porn I have I would never want to actually happen(hence fiction). Once I thought I was DL an animated piece, and t was real. I nearly vomited and quickly shredded the file.

 

 

Were there tentacles?

[80k]

Originally posted by autopilot well, i got a question for all of you, do you usually masturbate while watching porn?

 

 

there's generally two porn-watching scenarios:

 

1. whoa, these girls {censored} into each others' assholes? this i HAVE to see! (this would not involve masturbation)

 

2. something hot and arousing (which WOULD involve masturbation).

 

i watch far less porn these days than i used to.

[TheGZeus,OnFire]

Originally posted by autopilot well, i got a question for all of you, do you usually masturbate while watching porn?

REading, but yeah.

[TheGZeus,OnFire]

Originally posted by extremelybored Were there tentacles?

i hate those. No relavent story, almost never cnsentual and no possible frame of reference.

[Rocinante]

Originally posted by TheGZeus,OnFire The burden of proof is on you to show me that sex crimes have gone up faster than the population and somehow corelate it to porn.

I don't think I need to. These statistics are reported regularly in the news. Of course the news isn't always to be taken at face value and it could all be a conspiracy designed to make us fearful. I happen to believe it when I am regularly told by all the legitimate news media that sex crime is up.

 

Even if you are comfortable divorcing the porn business from any blame in the abuse of women in society, there is a causal relationship that is obvious to all: Supply and demand. As long as someone is prepared to abuse human beings including children for the perverted desires of other, some {censored} will buy it. Yes, I don't deny that this is a two way street, but to break the cycle we can do one of two things -- Brain surgery on individuals deemed dangerous by the powers-that-be, or discouraging the proliferation of porn. I know which I'd prefer.

[TheGZeus,OnFire]

Originally posted by Rocinante I don't think I need to. These statistics are reported regularly in the news. Of course the news isn't always to be taken at face value and it could all be a conspiracy designed to make us fearful. I happen to believe it when I am regularly told by all the legitimate news media that sex crime is up. Even if you are comfortable divorcing the porn business from any blame in the abuse of women in society, there is a causal relationship that is obvious to all: Supply and demand. As long as someone is prepared to abuse human beings including children for the perverted desires of other, some {censored} will buy it. Yes, I don't deny that this is a two way street, but to break the cycle we can do one of two things -- Brain surgery on individuals deemed dangerous by the powers-that-be, or closing down the porn trade. I know which I'd prefer.

They also say that obesity is an epidemic that's on the rise. It's been level relative to population since to 40s.

more people=more criminals=more crime.

The news does't always get their info from reliable unbiased sources. activists speak louder than statisticians.

I need statistics relative to population. Hell I'll throw you a bone and do the internet research myself.

Happy?

 

On the second paragraph:

THe hell?

 

You're talking about SNUFF FILMS??

Say that from the beginning.

Those are illegal already.

Irrelavent.

 

I'm talking aobut legally made images(of any kind). Footage of a real rape is illegal, as is child porn.

As you said, supply and demand rules the snuff film market.

Shutting down the LEGAL porn trade won't affect something traded outside it.

 

'To curb marijuana sales, we've made cigarettes illegal.'

 

This is why I think basic philosophy should be taught in schools.

PLEASE try and use logic.

[Rocinante]

Originally posted by TheGZeus,OnFire They also say that obesity is an epidemic that's on the rise. It's been level relative to population since to 40s. more people=more criminals=more crime. The news does't always get their info from reliable unbiased sources. activists speak louder than statisticians. I need statistics relative to population. Hell I'll throw you a bone and do the internet research myself. Happy? On the second paragraph: THe hell? You're talking about SNUFF FILMS?? Say that from the beginning. Those are illegal already. Irrelavent. I'm talking aobut legally made images(of any kind). Footage of a real rape is illegal, as is child porn. As you said, supply and demand rules the snuff film market. Shutting down the LEGAL porn trade won't affect something traded outside it. 'To curb marijuana sales, we've made cigarettes illegal.' This is why I think basic philosophy should be taught in schools. PLEASE try and use logic.

I've been perfectly logical. You've said nothing to convince me that porn is not damaging to human relationships and society in general.

 

This is like the pro/anti guns debate. While I accept the argument that pro-gun owners make for hanging on to their weapons, I would campaign vociferously to keep gun ownership illegal in this country because I know from witnessing what goes on in the US that people will die as a result. It's that simple.

[TheGZeus,OnFire]

Originally posted by Rocinante I've been perfectly logical. You've said nothing to convince me that porn is not damaging to human relationships and society in general. This is like the pro/anti guns debate. While I accept the argument that pro-gun owners make for hanging on to their weapons, I would campaign vociferously to keep gun ownership illegal in this country because I know from witnessing what goes on in the US that people will die as a result. It's that simple.

you have to prove it IS.

 

Refusing to give ANY evidennce to make your point and asking for negative proofs without any evidence for either side affectively available is totally illogical.

 

Don't try and change the subject.

[Rocinante]

Originally posted by TheGZeus,OnFire you have to prove it IS. Refusing to give ANY evidennce to make your point and asking for negative proofs without any evidence for either side affectively available is totally illogical. Don't try and change the subject.

I don't have to prove it is any more than you have to prove it isn't. I'm stating my opinion. You're talking gibberish.

 

I'm not changing the subject, I'm drawing parallels based upon the fact that like so many involved in the gun ownership debate you're obviously not going to change my mind and I'm not going to change yours. Stop trying to score points by nitpicking.

[TheGZeus,OnFire]

Originally posted by Rocinante I don't have to prove it is any more than you have to prove it isn't. I'm stating my opinion. You're talking gibberish. I'm not changing the subject, I'm drawing parallels based upon the fact that like so many involved in the gun ownership debate you're obviously not going to change my mind and I'm not going to change yours. Stop trying to score points by nitpicking.

THis isn't amatter of opinion.

It's a matter of fact.

 

I'm not nitpicking.

Your argument has no legs to stand on.

 

 

I repeat, opinion is not involved here.

 

Gibberish? I may be talking over your head, but these terms have no real synonyms.

 

You can't decide if you're talking about pron, snuff films, sex crimes...

 

You do no research, come to a conclusion based on....jack and then call it an opinion so you feel it cannot be disproven.

 

It's NO an opinion, it's a statement of fact with no basis in fact.

"This happens because of this.' is a factual statement.

Saying 'I believe' along with that simply attaches you to the statement.

 

Again, give SOME evidence of these statements or don't say them.

 

"I believe dogs eat babies every day in wisconsin." is a factual statement with no basis in fact.

Were you to say "show me where you got this evidence" and I was to say "I heard it a few times." You'd laugh.

This is what's happening here.

 

"GIve me some evidence of these baby eatings."

"I don't have to it's my opinion."

 

Ludicrous, ridiculous, and downright stupid statements one after the other, each moreso.

 

Just stop.

[Rocinante]

Originally posted by TheGZeus,OnFire THis isn't amatter of opinion. It's a matter of fact. I'm not nitpicking. Your argument has no legs to stand on. I repeat, opinion is not involved here. Gibberish? I may be talking over your head, but these terms have no real synonyms. You can't decide if you're talking about pron, snuff films, sex crimes... You do no research, come to a conclusion based on....jack and then call it an opinion so you feel it cannot be disproven. It's NO an opinion, it's a statement of fact with no basis in fact. "This happens because of this.' is a factual statement. Saying 'I believe' along with that simply attaches you to the statement. Again, give SOME evidence of these statements or don't say them. "I believe dogs eat babies every day in wisconsin." is a factual statement with no basis in fact. Were you to say "show me where you got this evidence" and I was to say "I heard it a few times." You'd laugh. This is what's happening here. "GIve me some evidence of these baby eatings." "I don't have to it's my opinion." Ludicrous, ridiculous, and downright stupid statements one after the other, each moreso. Just stop.

If you want actual statistics I can probably provide them, but you know damn well what they say about statistics. I think my reasoning's been quite clear. In fact, I don't know how I can make it clearer. The fact that you fail to see it is really not my problem, and I've got better things to do with my time than spend any longer tit-for-tat-ing with the likes of you.

[MrSage]

Originally posted by Rocinante . . . . but you know damn well what they say about statistics.

What?

[Rocinante]

Originally posted by MrSage What?

To cut to the chase, they're open to falsification. If you were to make all your decisions based on statistics you'd never make any decisions at all, because the data would be constantly questioned, re-evaluated and re-tested. In the end, it comes down to observation and making decisions based on simple common sense.