What is this chord?

[blaghaus]

I think these threads are my favourite. this one was great

 

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=901633&highlight=chord

[Thelonius]

Originally posted by guitarcapo Aren't "2" chords incorrect by formal music conventions?

 

Yep. Usually when I see an X2 chord I assume they mean sus2. Although some music theorists argue there's no such thing as a sus2, only an inverted sus4 (which makes no sense to me as usually the xsus2 is functioning as the xmaj or xmin).

 

The problem is that there's no Db in the chord, so it's completely missing the root. Which would be fine but it would mean the B in the note is a b7 in Db which would have to be explained more thoroughly than D2 or Dsus2.

 

But of course the main thing is that if it's a Db chord then there is a third (F) in the chord. sus2/2 chords don't contain a third..the third is substituted with the 2nd.

 

 

But none of that matters, because I think he was just kidding.

 

But in case you're curious, if it was a Db chord it would be a Db9

[fernmeister]

without doubt this is one of the coolest case studies in music theory! definately one for the harmony-nerds.

 

fwiw, i think in context this is best explained as a subdominant minor, or as a secondary dominant. it isn't really a normal VII. of course, this is mostly after the fact explanation, because the chord may simply be the product of voice leading in the act of writing.

[flat5]

 

Originally posted by blaghaus -x- -x- -1- -1- -2- -1-

 

 

G7b9b13

 

Db9

 

it resolves to F#Maj7 simply enough, whats the problem/ no root?

 

or

 

a forth voicing depending whear the X`s are

[exploradorable]

OK Db9. I conceed. But in a 8 tone scale, 9 is still the same thing as a 2. I assume the top X is the fat E string..............

[riffdaddy]

 

Originally posted by guitarcapo Aren't "2" chords incorrect by formal music conventions?

 

 

It should be add9.

[flat5]

IMO sus chords and 2 chords are redundant; there is a case for a sus chord but only about 5% of the time. The sus chord only exists when the root of the chord is present other wise its a forth voicing.

Ex: Dsus = A, D, G

Forth voicing = D, G, C & E, A, D & tons of others

A sus chord must have the 4th, root and the 5th.

The two 4th voicing have root 7 and 11 and 9, 5 and root

 

Are we sweet?

[auditorium]

Originally posted by ginnboonmiller For what it's worth, Thelonius has hardcore harmony chops, too. I guess there's always government jobs...

 

let's just say i'm...disqualified...from working for the government. like most of my contemporaries at music school, that's for sure. does anyone know how long it takes PCP to test out of your system?

 

i figure if i rock the master's, i stand a chance of applying for grant money. notice i didn't say "stand a chance of being awarded grant money"; still, it would beat work. with a stick.

[auditorium]

Originally posted by auditorium does anyone know how long it takes PCP to test out of your system?

 

...is he kidding, folks?

 

:cue twilight zone music:

[auditorium]

 

Originally posted by auditorium ...is he kidding, folks? :cue twilight zone music:

 

 

no, if he were kidding, then it would have to be FUNNY

 

 

...which it's not.

[riffdaddy]

 

Originally posted by flat5 IMO sus chords and 2 chords are redundant; there is a case for a sus chord but only about 5% of the time. The sus chord only exists when the root of the chord is present other wise its a forth voicing. Ex: Dsus = A, D, G Forth voicing = D, G, C & E, A, D & tons of others A sus chord must have the 4th, root and the 5th. The two 4th voicing have root 7 and 11 and 9, 5 and root Are we sweet?

 

 

The problem with 4th voicings is that they're difficult to notate. My preferred method is D (4x3), but even that can be confusing.

[auditorium]

 

Originally posted by flat5 IMO sus chords and 2 chords are redundant; there is a case for a sus chord but only about 5% of the time. The sus chord only exists when the root of the chord is present other wise its a forth voicing. Ex: Dsus = A, D, G Forth voicing = D, G, C & E, A, D & tons of others A sus chord must have the 4th, root and the 5th. The two 4th voicing have root 7 and 11 and 9, 5 and root Are we sweet?

 

 

If you're going to go as far as Root 7 11 and 9, you might as well venture into notating it as a hybrid chord- find the implicit second chord and bust a move...for instance.

 

Root is D. uppper structure is the 9, 11, and 13 of the chord- E-/D. if you have 9, 11, and 7 (E, G, and C/C#), then you have E6/D. Keeping the A (fifth of D), you get E-6(11)/D...a twist on the classic II-/I

 

The fourth voicing you posted, D, G, C, E, A, D is an inverted Cmajor (G C E) and a D and its fifth (D A), so you would get C(13)/D or C6/D...one of my favs, VII/I

 

hybrid chords are great, as they allow an extended upper harmony structure while keeping the root's function...so E-/D in the key of C would function subdominantly (i.e. as the II-).

[flat5]

 

Originally posted by riffdaddy The problem with 4th voicing is that they're difficult to notate. My preferred method is D (4x3), but even that can be confusing.

 

 

Yes I agree, I can

[pontiusplaymate]

 

Originally posted by ginnboonmiller Oh, it's even cooler than that! Imagine for a second -- you're all dressed up for the opera. It's Wagner's latest, and he's been around for a while, so you think you know what you're getting into. And you relieve yourself, finish your last smoke, and settle in for four+ hours of sonic pummelling. And the lights go out, and the orchestra pit lights come up, and you get -- seven notes, one chord, long silences on either end, and you still have no {censored}ing clue what key you're in. It's brilliant.

 

 

But wasn't it the case that when Tristan was first performed, it was no longer Wagner's latest opera? If I remember correctly, Wagner wrote Tristan after taking a haitus from work on Siegfried. After he completed Tristan, he then wrote Die Miestersinger before returning to his work on the ring. But due to the difficulty of Tristan it was performed long after Miestersinger had been introduced to the public.

 

What's my point? Well, my point is that if I'm not all wrong and {censored}, I just split hairs with the biggest music geek on the forum.

[auditorium]

 

Originally posted by flat5   Yes I agree, I can

[auditorium]

 

Originally posted by pontiusplaymate Well, my point is that if I'm not all wrong and {censored}, I just split hairs with the biggest music geek on the forum.

 

 

This, sadly, does not make you King Geek. But it bumps you up a rank, into the court.

 

I call Princess Consort...I mean, Prince Consort...I mean...I have no idea what I mean. Though I'll glady swear fealty to King GBM and Queen Thelonius. God save the King (&Queen)!

[pontiusplaymate]

 

Originally posted by auditorium This, sadly, does not make you King Geek. But it bumps you up a rank, into the court. I call Princess Consort...I mean, Prince Consort...I mean...I have no idea what I mean. Though I'll glady swear fealty to King GBM and Queen Thelonius. God save the King (&Queen)!

 

 

I'm not even a street urchin in the kingdom of music geekery. I would prefer to be known as the high-duke of hairsplitting.

[flat5]

 

Originally posted by auditorium The fourth voicing you posted, D, G, C, E, A, D is an inverted Cmajor (G C E) and a D and its fifth (D A), so you would get C(13)/D or C6/D...one of my favs, VII/I

 

 

sorry about the confusion

 

I posted two forth voicing the "&" was supposed to separate them.

I believe in keeping things simple

 

Thus within the chromatic scale

Their are only two hole tone scales

Only two diminished and only two augmented chords/scales

Only two forth voicing, all because of symmetry.

There are a limited amount of extensions available until you change the function and name of a chord

A major chord cannot have a flat 7 of a flat 9

A Dom chord cannot have a maj 7

A minor chord cannot have a maj3

All pretty basic really.

A sus chord must have the forth and the fifth.

A Dom chord can have a 9, b9, #9, 11, #11, b13, 13,

If a chord has a tri tone then chances are its a Dom, it doesn

[ginnboonmiller]

 

Originally posted by flat5   sorry about the confusion   I posted two forth voicing the "&" was supposed to separate them. I believe in keeping things simple   Thus within the chromatic scale Their are only two hole tone scales Only two diminished and only two augmented chords/scales Only two forth voicing, all because of symmetry. There are a limited amount of extensions available until you change the function and name of a chord A major chord cannot have a flat 7 of a flat 9 A Dom chord cannot have a maj 7 A minor chord cannot have a maj3 All pretty basic really. A sus chord must have the forth and the fifth. A Dom chord can have a 9, b9, #9, 11, #11, b13, 13, If a chord has a tri tone then chances are its a Dom, it doesn

[flat5]

 

Originally posted by auditorium Mmm, trad harm. The funny part is, the 4th in Jazz is often used as decoration for the 3rd (generally as the 11th, or #11)- fa-me is a great, *great* tendency tone, has a lot of motion to it. Almost as good as Le-Sol (b6-5), which might be my favorite paring of notes in a diatonic context.

 

 

In jazz the Lydian is the root, your right. I

[flat5]

 

Originally posted by ginnboonmiller It took me a long, long time to decide. But today, I think the error of yours that I'm going to correct is your spelling of fourth.

 

 

go fourth and multiply

its easy math remember:D

 

can you find a hole in my music thoery:thu:

[exploradorable]

there are Dom chords so are there Sub chords?

[flat5]

Originally posted by exploradorable there are Dom chords so are there Sub chords?

 

yes

 

just to save you the effort

 

 

Hi sausage

[auditorium]

 

Originally posted by flat5 A Dom chord can have a 9, b9, #9, 11, #11, b13, 13,

 

 

Mmm, altered dominant. And who said Melodic Minor had no uses outside of a Joni Mitchell song?

 

 

If a chord has a tri tone then chances are its a Dom, it doesn

[ginnboonmiller]

 

Originally posted by flat5 go fourth and multiply its easy math remember:D can you find a hole in my music thoery:thu:

 

 

I made my decision, and I stand by it. All you will learn from me is how to spell fourth.

 

You're gonna have to figure out the rest for yourself. But I wouldn't trust you if I were you, because you get stuff all mixed up all the time and you might tell you something wrong.