Screw the NY Transit workers!

[The Great Waldo Pepper]

Originally posted by BIGD Oh, now you're trying to be funny? The truth is that in this world, not everyone can "BE SOMEBODY" in terms of their occupation, despite what Rush Limbaugh or Sean Hannity might tell you. Resources are finite.

 

 

The truth is not everybody WANTS to be somebody. Some folks want a quiet life and a family.

[MrSage]

Originally posted by RJpilot This country has really gotten to the point where we take everything for granted and feel entitled to everything and damnit I want it at walmart prices. Its sick. Yeah it sux for New Yorkers, but you know what the transit workers have been taking it in the ass for god knows how long and the city won't negotiate. There are two sides in Collective bargaining. Why won't bicycle boy compromise. Oh I forgot...Republicans don't negotiate with Terrorists and American Unions workers. They just outsource the union workers and voila Walmart wages yield walmart prices and the big boys win again.

Don't talk about things you don't understand.

 

It's not about walmart prices at all. This isn't about the price of riding the subway. Everyone knows that that's inevitably going to go up.

 

This is about the transit workers breaking a state law that says they are not allowed to go on strike.

 

And it "sux" for 7 million new yorkers. 7 million people can't get to work or school or anywhere. And countless businesses are facing unrecoverable losses during one of the traditionally busiest shopping weeks of the year.

 

Why?

 

Because making $55,000 a year and retiring with a pension at age 55 isn't good enough for some people.

 

You clearly have no clue what you're talking about, though. "but you know what the transit workers have been taking it in the ass for god knows how long and the city won't negotiate"

 

1) Three years. That's how long the transit workers have been "taking it in the ass." If by "taking it in the ass" you mean "working under the guidelines both sides agreed to last time they negotiated a contract."

 

2) The city was negotiating right up until the union started breaking the law. I'm sure you think that the union should be rewarded for breaking the law, but most other people would disagree. It would be great if negotiations could continue. But as long as the union keeps going with the illegal strike, the city can't do anything. What kind of message do you want to send people? That if you're unhappy with something, illegal acts will get you want you want? That's just plain ridiculous.

[Joe Klink]

Originally posted by BIGD Resources are finite.

 

 

They're only as finite as your own abilities. And if one has very limitied abilities, then one lives on very limited resources. Makes sense to me.

[BIGD]

Originally posted by catalinbread Everytime a union accepts something that barely maintains status quo they lose strength exponentially. I believe in strong unions. I also believe a huge problem with our country is our social networks are broken. Trade unions to fraternal lodges to churches to stitch and bitches are the places that real social change takes root. Unless you are in the elite class of our society social change benefits you and at the very worst doesn't effect you at all.

 

 

 

I agree with you, but the TWU workers do have good paying jobs, and will still have good paying jobs if they take the MTA deal. Their basically operating on the platform that they are taking up this fight for ALL city workers, because we are on the slippery slope. That's a very difficult one for many people to side with.

[BIGD]

Originally posted by Joe Klink They're only as finite as your own abilities. And if one has very limitied abilities, then one lives on very limited resources. Makes sense to me.

 

 

So you're a social darwinist?

[The Great Waldo Pepper]

Originally posted by MrSage Don't talk about things you don't understand. This is about the transit workers breaking a state law that says they are not allowed to go on strike.

 

 

Why does ANYONE think that a law like this should exist in the first place?

[Mr. Twang]

No, like I said in my earlier post, it isn't greed to want more. But it is greedy to demand more and to do nothing to earn it. If you want to be terrible at your job and totally insufferable in the process, fine. Go right ahead. But then don't turn around and demand more money/benefits from the city when you can't even act like a decent human being. If you want better wages, do something to earn it, like treat riders with respect and decency. Or maybe have the trains run effiently and timely for once.

The subway system sucks because it's run by apathetic jerks who don't give a damn whether or not they do a good job because they know their union will protect their job and give them regular pay raises too.

[fiveway switch]

Originally posted by catalinbread Why does ANYONE think that a law like this should exist in the first place?

 

 

 

for the exact reasons that are happening now

[BIGD]

Originally posted by Mr. Twang No, like I said in my earlier post, it isn't greed to want more. But it is greedy to demand more and to do nothing to earn it. If you want to be terrible at your job and totally insufferable in the process, fine. Go right ahead. But then don't turn around and demand more money/benefits from the city when you can't even act like a decent human being. If you want better ages, do something to earn it, like treat riders with respect and decency. Or maybe have the trains run effiently and timely for once. The subway system sucks because it's run by apathetic jerks who don't give a damn whether or not they do a good job because they know their union will protect their job and give them regular pay raises too.

 

 

 

The subway system is actually pretty good. When I hear people complaining about things like the US post office and the NYC subway, I have to laugh. For the size that these systems are, they are fairly effecient and reliable. Private companies that size really aren't any better (hmo's, anyone?)

[MrSage]

I'm pissed off because it cost me $40 to get to midtown and back yesterday.

That's $4 on a standard metrocard, and even less on my monthly pass.

And when I go to the airport tomorrow, it'll cost even more than that...probably around $60 or so. On the other hand, the subway would have been free (since my monthly pass is already paid for) and that takes me to the airtrain, which costs $5.

[The Great Waldo Pepper]

Originally posted by fiveway switch for the exact reasons that are happening now

 

 

And? By logical extention it should be a law that NOBODY can strike.

[Joe Klink]

Originally posted by BIGD So you're a social darwinist?

 

 

Not in general, but with regards to occupation and compensation, I'd have to say yes. Basically I hate hearing people whine about not making enough money. If everyone got what they think they deserve, no business could function. And if you're in a job that makes X, and you want more than X, who's problem is it, yours or the companies? It's yours. You want more, you do more, you go back to school, you get better experience and score a higher paying job. You don't blackmail your employer and an entire city.

[BIGD]

Originally posted by Joe Klink Not in general, but with regards to occupation and compensation, I'd have to say yes. Basically I hate hearing people whine about not making enough money. If everyone got what they think they deserve, no business could function. And if you're in a job that makes X, and you want more than X, who's problem is it, yours or the companies? It's yours. You want more, you do more, you go back to school, you get better experience and score a higher paying job. You don't blackmail your employer.

 

 

 

Jesus, you would think that the history books that go back more than 80 years were confiscated from guys like this!! Unions exist for a good reason, and many things you take for granted now are the result of unions. A union is a response to an owner that has tremendous wealth, and thus power and influence over the government and others. It's simply a leveling of the playing field.

[Stoney Stomp]

guys, you really all need to take a step back for a second. There's a middle ground here. To say "{censored} the TWU" is unfair. Do I agree that to strike now was a good idea? No, of course not. It's crippling the city's economy. I don't really care if its just pissing people off.. that's part of why they strike. to grind the machine to a hault.
However.. i just personally think it was in bad taste and judgement to do it now. They're hurting themselves but they're also hurting all the local economy. The small stores that count on this time of year to make their profits.. these men and women are drowning now.

HOWEVER.. i also understand the desire and need to strike. Look, i dont agree that TWU workers should make more money then police and firefighters. My father was a detective for a long time, my brother-in-law a seargent.. i've got law enforcement in the family. Anyone who literally puts their lives on the line like that should be entitled to higher compensation..im sorry, but to me thats just common sense.
But that's not to say that these TWU workers shouldnt making more money.
I doubt VERY highly that anyone here is in the transit union so for the most part, people who are attacking these people are talking out of their ass. and im not insulting anyone..but really, none of us know the whole story.
So my point is.. why dont we be a little less judgemental here. Im not saying dont be pissed off.. but to claim that they shouldnt get more money because they're grumpy, in my opinion, is just foolish.

There are MANY sides to this whole mess. There is right and wrong on both sides. You can be pissed off about it but to sit here and piss and moan about what they deserve and dont deserve is probably childish since most of us probably have little idea about what they actually do and don't get.

That is all

[fiveway switch]

Originally posted by catalinbread And? By logical extention it should be a law that NOBODY can strike.

 

 

i didnt say that , but i do feel that services such as transit water and power ect should not be allowed to strike . you affect to many of the wrong people .

[MrSage]

Originally posted by catalinbread Why does ANYONE think that a law like this should exist in the first place?

I think it makes sense for someplace like New York.

I mean, the city's economy depends on the transit system. Most New Yorkers don't have cars, so when the subway isn't available, they simply can't get around. Sure, there are still taxis, but not everyone has $30 - $40 a day to pay on transportation.

The law was ostensibly put into place to protect the 7 million people a day who rely on the subways and busses to get to work, to school, to run errands, to get grandpa to dialysis.

I'm sure grandpa is still getting his dialysis ( ), but you see where I'm going...

Yeah, it sucks that the transit workers don't have much recourse if the contract is not renegotiated when the old one expires...

But what recourse does the city have if the workers decide not to go to work?

There has to be a better solution, but the bottom line is that it's not just about union vs. company here...it's affecting literally millions of other people.

I think it's really difficult for people outside of New York to grasp what it means to have your transportation taken away. In the freezing cold.

It's a huge deal...a lot moreso than most other places (where you could rent a car, have a friend drive you, etc). It doesn't seem fair that we have to suffer because the union and the MTA can't agree.

Each day that this strike goes on, I am less and less inclined to be sympathetic to the union. As even if you don't agree that the law is a good idea, it's still a law...it just doesn't seem right to reward people for breaking it just because they don't agree with it.

[TheAtomicJeff]

Breaking news

 

NYC transit workers union leaders agree to a return to work while strike talks continue, mediator says. Deal must be OK'd by union executive board.

 

*front page of CNN website*

[Joe Klink]

Originally posted by BIGD Jesus, you would think that the history books that go back more than 80 years were confiscated from guys like this!! Unions exist for a good reason, and many things you take for granted now are the result of unions. A union is a response to an owner that has tremendous wealth, and thus power and influence over the government and others. It's simply a leveling of the playing field.

 

 

Did I say I'm against unions? You'd have a point if I did. But I didn't.

 

Even though they're a pain in the ass for a lot of companies, most of them don't act like this. In most cases things are settled long before there's a strike and they work to everyone's advantage. In this case too much is being asked and it has turned into blackmail.

[MrSage]

Originally posted by TheAtomicJeff Breaking news NYC transit workers union leaders agree to a return to work while strike talks continue, mediator says. Deal must be OK'd by union executive board. *front page of CNN website*

Sweet.

[The Great Waldo Pepper]

Originally posted by Joe Klink Not in general, but with regards to occupation and compensation, I'd have to say yes. Basically I hate hearing people whine about not making enough money. If everyone got what they think they deserve, no business could function. And if you're in a job that makes X, and you want more than X, who's problem is it, yours or the companies? It's yours. You want more, you do more, you go back to school, you get better experience and score a higher paying job. You don't blackmail your employer and an entire city.

 

 

Here is a little secret about being a capitalist... You hire people to make profit off of their labor. Dirty little secret is employers make a load of money off of their employees. An example. A waiter does $1600 in sales volume in 8 hours of work. The resturant pays her min wage, some states like Nebraska min wage for food workers is $3/hour. Here in Seattle I think it is $8. He is drawing in $200/hour for his employer his employer would not otherwise be able to draw by herself. An altruistic employer realizes this. She'll say, "I am proud when I provide employment for a person who can raise a family." They also know that without that employee they would not be in business. The capitalist scumbag will complain about their employees who go on benders and don't show up to work the day after payday. All I can say is, THAT EMPLOYER is drawing in the type of employee he deserves. Sure this is microscale nonsense. But there is no need for this sort of disconnect even in the largest of organizations.

[MrSage]

See, there's the point of the law.

The law makes it illegal to strike, but also requires that mediation be sought in case of an impasse.

In this case, the mediation process appears to have been fairly successful, as the transit workers may be back to work by this evening.

[psalt_phallow]

I support unions and this strike, good for them for finally showing that a union still has the guts to do what there supposed to.

[Mr. Twang]

Originally posted by TheAtomicJeff Breaking news NYC transit workers union leaders agree to a return to work while strike talks continue, mediator says. Deal must be OK'd by union executive board. *front page of CNN website*

 

 

 

Ha ha! The pricks caved in.

[MrSage]

Originally posted by psalt_phallow I support unions and this strike, good for them for finally showing that a union still has the guts to do what there supposed to.

What is it that "there" supposed to do?

[Mr. Twang]

Originally posted by psalt_phallow I support unions and this strike, good for them for finally showing that a union still has the guts to do what there supposed to.

 

 

What, you mean by breaking the law?