Moderators AMZ-FX Posted May 2, 2006 Moderators Share Posted May 2, 2006 The USA is broke... The National Debt: 04/28/2006 $8,355,718,074,718.49 09/30/2005 $7,932,709,661,723.50 09/30/2004 $7,379,052,696,330.32 09/30/2003 $6,783,231,062,743.62 09/30/2002 $6,228,235,965,597.16 09/28/2001 $5,807,463,412,200.06 09/29/2000 $5,674,178,209,886.86 09/30/1999 $5,656,270,901,615.43 09/30/1998 $5,526,193,008,897.62 09/30/1997 $5,413,146,011,397.34 09/30/1996 $5,224,810,939,135.73 09/29/1995 $4,973,982,900,709.39 09/30/1994 $4,692,749,910,013.32 09/30/1993 $4,411,488,883,139.38 09/30/1992 $4,064,620,655,521.66 09/30/1991 $3,665,303,351,697.03 09/28/1990 $3,233,313,451,777.25 09/29/1989 $2,857,430,960,187.32 09/30/1988 $2,602,337,712,041.16 09/30/1987 $2,350,276,890,953.00 Source: US Dept. of the Treasury http://www.publicdebt.treas.gov/opd/opdpenny.htm When Reagan was President, the entire National Debt was $2.35 trillion dollars. It is now $8.35 trillion. The increase since the 1988 elections is $6.00 trillion! This is close to 3x what the entire debt was in the Reagan years! If you doubled the Income Tax for everyone making $40,000 or more, the extra taxes collected would only be $0.419 trillion per year... and it would take 20 years to pay off the National debt, assuming that no new debt was incurred during that time! Not a political statement since we had both D and R presidents in that time interval; I'm just saying that maybe it's time to get worried??? ps: Boutique pedals will be worthless in the coming depression :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bieke Posted May 2, 2006 Members Share Posted May 2, 2006 solution : print trillion dollar bills, nine of 'em Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hbar Posted May 2, 2006 Members Share Posted May 2, 2006 Actually, eight of them. Monty Burns already has one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 4Kenoath Posted May 2, 2006 Members Share Posted May 2, 2006 It's been a widely held theory that the USA has been bankrupt for many years...worse than even the 'official' figures show.What does it all mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bieke Posted May 2, 2006 Members Share Posted May 2, 2006 and then go to a night store, buy a pack of gum and pay with your trillion dollar bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jaymeister Posted May 2, 2006 Members Share Posted May 2, 2006 The US national debt is high. As a percentage of GDP it is about the same as when Reagan left office. On Reagan's watch the national debt/GDP took off. It came down a bit under Clinton, and then has increased again under Bush/Cheney. Interestingly enough the national debt/GDP was its highest in the early post war 1950's. Not saying that this is the only way to look at it, but it is another way to put a spin on it. Other factors also make these times pretty tenuous versus any other time in recent history for the USA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JeffreyCH Posted May 2, 2006 Members Share Posted May 2, 2006 ps: Boutique pedals will be worthless in the coming depression Good. Then we won't be able to sell them to pay for food, but we'll be inspired to get back to more serious song writing and hopefully the crappy music they try to feed us now will die! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lanefair Posted May 2, 2006 Members Share Posted May 2, 2006 $8,355,718,074,718.49? Can't Bush win that money back in a poker game or something? He's got enough collateral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members derek_32999 Posted May 2, 2006 Members Share Posted May 2, 2006 Ross for president! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pbhtrip Posted May 2, 2006 Members Share Posted May 2, 2006 This sounds like an easy problem to solve............just get all the money back that is owed to us by other countries and stop lending/giving money out from now on. Piece of cake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AMZ-FX Posted May 2, 2006 Author Moderators Share Posted May 2, 2006 Originally posted by 4Kenoath It's been a widely held theory that the USA has been bankrupt for many years...worse than even the 'official' figures show.What does it all mean? It means that at some point the economy will go through a period of "correction" and the spending will have to be curtailed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Barnabyhuggins Posted May 2, 2006 Members Share Posted May 2, 2006 How many of you are in debt right now - even a lot of debt? Would you describe yourself as broke? Most countries in the world have a substantial national debt; just as most people have personal debt. The problem can come from the interest payments which are, right now, manageable but may become unsustainable in the future. Or they may not. This isn't something I am too concerned about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Speeddemon Posted May 2, 2006 Members Share Posted May 2, 2006 Originally posted by AMZ-FX The USA is broke... The National Debt: 04/28/2006 $8,355,718,074,718.49 The fact that when talking about 8.4 TRILLION dollars (!!!), they still manage to write down the 49ct, cracks me up big time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members farfignewgon Posted May 2, 2006 Members Share Posted May 2, 2006 Originally posted by bieke solution : print trillion dollar bills, nine of 'em NICE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sonaboy Posted May 2, 2006 Members Share Posted May 2, 2006 Originally posted by AMZ-FX It means that at some point the economy will go through a period of "correction" and the spending will have to be curtailed... It also means that the US Dollar can be dislodged from the "fiat currency" it currently enjoys. then many of the other countries who hold our debts can begin calling them in to stabilize their economies, and then things get difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Hopeless Posted May 2, 2006 Members Share Posted May 2, 2006 Originally posted by sonaboy It also means that the US Dollar can be dislodged from the "fiat currency" it currently enjoys.then many of the other countries who hold our debts can begin calling them in to stabilize their economies, and then things get difficult. And I'd assume we owe more than we're owed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sonaboy Posted May 2, 2006 Members Share Posted May 2, 2006 Originally posted by Hopeless And I'd assume we owe more than we're owed. To lots of countries - NO. but you'll notice a lot of effort by the Bush admin lately in convincing China to untether their currency from what they feel is an artificially lowered rate. China has quite a grip on a LOT of our debt, especially since the war began.that can be VERY problematic if continued unchecked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MoreGuitars Posted May 2, 2006 Members Share Posted May 2, 2006 Originally posted by sonaboy To lots of countries - NO.but you'll notice a lot of effort by the Bush admin lately in convincing China to untether their currency from what they feel is an artificially lowered rate.China has quite a grip on a LOT of our debt, especially since the war began.that can be VERY problematic if continued unchecked. There is a saying which is true. Owe the bank a thousand dollars, it's your problem, Owe the bank a million dollars it's their problem. I'd be more worried if I was China than the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Verne Andru Posted May 2, 2006 Members Share Posted May 2, 2006 Since the break from the gold standard, when governments want money for something they simply print it. When you print too much you debase your currency. Debase your currency too much and your economy collapses. Taxes do not "pay" for anything - they are a mechanism for removing excess currency from circulation as a way to control inflation. The "debt" is in T-Bills - China and Japan hold most of it. With the US gov beating up the Chinese, they [Chinese] have been quietly re-arranging their finances out of USD. They have recently signed a deal with the Saudi's to buy oil in Euro's effectively ending the rein of the Petro-Dollar that has kept the USD the international exchange currency. The last issue of US treasury bills, which are usually 2 and 3 times oversubscribed, was seriously undersubsrcibed for the first time in many years. They couldn't sell even 50% of them. Also, for the first time in history, the Federal Reserve is refusing to release their report stating exactly how much money they printed last year. The reason the Canadian dollar is past 90 cents [it used to be $1.20 US when I was a kid] is not cause of any strenth in Canada, but a deflating of the USD. And it's only going to get worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jaymeister Posted May 2, 2006 Members Share Posted May 2, 2006 Originally posted by Verne Andru The reason the Canadian dollar is past 90 cents [it used to be $1.20 US when I was a kid] is not cause of any strenth in Canada, but a deflating of the USD. And it's only going to get worse. It's also because we are selling our oil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members slc_dan Posted May 2, 2006 Members Share Posted May 2, 2006 Originally posted by hbar Actually, eight of them. Monty Burns already has one of them. no, he has a billion or a million(can't remember exactly), not a trillion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Alex D Posted May 2, 2006 Members Share Posted May 2, 2006 Originally posted by MoreGuitars There is a saying which is true. Owe the bank a thousand dollars, it's your problem, Owe the bank a million dollars it's their problem. I'd be more worried if I was China than the US. It that was any other country/economic system that would be so true. But china economy is a new hybrid form of communism/capitalism. This is the reason they are so much trouble to us, they enjoy benefits of capitalism but the hard and fast rules are gov control of all business (including currency) in the form of communism. It is the best of both worlds, they are building the worlds largest middle class (the dream of communism), plus the world uses them as their labor base so who is going to cut off production that is needed to pay off debt. All in all, we need china more then china needs us (in a pure economic system sense) and that is dangerous.Do we care though, not really. Try to collect, and we'll break this world right open and that no one wants. oops, I mean no one other then those bible bangers who thing that the end of the world is coming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Verne Andru Posted May 2, 2006 Members Share Posted May 2, 2006 Originally posted by Alex D It that was any other country/economic system that would be so true. But china economy is a new hybrid form of communism/capitalism. This is the reason they are so much trouble to us, they enjoy benefits of capitalism but the hard and fast rules are gov control of all business (including currency) in the form of communism. It is the best of both worlds, they are building the worlds largest middle class (the dream of communism), plus the world uses them as their labor base so who is going to cut off production that is needed to pay off debt. All in all, we need china more then china needs us (in a pure economic system sense) and that is dangerous. Do we care though, not really. Try to collect, and we'll break this world right open and that no one wants. oops, I mean no one other then those bible bangers who thing that the end of the world is coming I agree [somewhat] - the Chinese are so close to still eating dirt [many do] that the effect on their day to day lives will be minimal. But you have to also consider that when President Hu was in Seattle he did a deal with Boeing for 20 747's plus whatever him and Gates worked out. I would posit he's already "spent" the USD/T-Bills on this past trip and if the USD drops to pennies Boeing and Gates will have to honour the contracts. Chinese are anything but stupid - can't say the same for that group in DC at the moment.On the "sky is falling crowd" there is a bit of "truth" in their beliefs - albeit twisted all out of context. The ancients had a tradition whereby at the change of each zodiac sign in the precessional cycle, they would change their symbolism accordingly. If you go back in history you'll see there was a period when the Bull was the prevelant symbol, the crab, etc. When we hit the "christian" era the sign changed to picies and the popes outfit made to resemble a fish - his hat in particular is an open fish's mouth. These changes are supposed to occur every 600-odd years and the period after the "christian" was marked by Mohamud/Muslim. If the church of rome had not usurped the ancient teachings, the Muslim faith would be the currently accepted one. The next change is slated for 2011 at which time "christianity" should pass the torch to the next crowd - whoever that may be - but since they didn't honour the change around 600 CE chances of them doing it this time around are slim to none. Most people are not even aware this is what's supposed to happen. They call it the end of the world but it's really the end of their belief system.[excuse the spelling please] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Hopeless Posted May 2, 2006 Members Share Posted May 2, 2006 Originally posted by Verne Andru On the "sky is falling crowd" there is a bit of "truth" in their beliefs - albeit twisted all out of context. The ancients had a tradition whereby at the change of each zodiac sign in the precessional cycle, they would change their symbolism accordingly. If you go back in history you'll see there was a period when the Bull was the prevelant symbol, the crab, etc. When we hit the "christian" era the sign changed to picies and the popes outfit made to resemble a fish - his hat in particular is an open fish's mouth. These changes are supposed to occur every 600-odd years and the period after the "christian" was marked by Mohamud/Muslim. If the church of rome had not usurped the ancient teachings, the Muslim faith would be the currently accepted one. The next change is slated for 2011 at which time "christianity" should pass the torch to the next crowd - whoever that may be - but since they didn't honour the change around 600 CE chances of them doing it this time around are slim to none. Most people are not even aware this is what's supposed to happen. They call it the end of the world but it's really the end of their belief system.[excuse the spelling please] Between this and your avatar... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Great Waldo Pepper Posted May 2, 2006 Members Share Posted May 2, 2006 Originally posted by AMZ-FX It means that at some point the economy will go through a period of "correction" and the spending will have to be curtailed... Exactly the plan. Cut back on social spending is the solution should the same group that caused the problem be left in charge to fix it. They certainly won't cut back on militarization because our bombs are what the future dollar can be tied to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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