Members DmitryKo Posted January 15, 2007 Members Share Posted January 15, 2007 Believe me, the XS will grow on you... more so when you'll be able to actually demo it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Diametro Posted January 15, 2007 Author Members Share Posted January 15, 2007 Sharp, Sorry try this one..http://tinyurl.com/sjp66 These demos are weak ... I don't see how anybody with a workstation they're already happy with would be GASSed up by them ... Anybody else notice the obvious lack of audio tracks? (Although, according to another post elsewhere, the XS is implementing something called - "Direct Performance Recording," which someone said could be HD recording ... But why would Yamaha not be releasing specs? ... it only hurts the initial impression.) EDIT: Initial impression ... A fine evolution of the Motif ... but that's it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Keymaster Posted January 15, 2007 Members Share Posted January 15, 2007 Hi there people of Harmony Central.Not posted on here before really. Thought I would join the debate of Yamaha's new offering into the wonderful world that is the workstation market.From listening to the demo's ,reading the press releases and reading most of this thread it seems to be a well capable machine.True its not earthshattering but its a steady progression and I'm sure when you get chance to demo it for yourselves it will sound ok.Demo's are never a true indication of what a product sounds and feels like once you listen to it in a physical enviroment.How it works under your fingers is always a good indicator on whether or not you will be impressed. Yamaha have always had a good track record with most of their products and this seems no different. One thing I will say though is this,the keyboard workstation market will always struggle from now on.Many many technologies are available and to release something truly unique is very very difficult.Yamaha have stayed safe and kept with something tried and tested,it does its job well and will sell.If the Motif brand was'nt a success they would have ditched the name and gone for something new. I personally think the way forward is a merging of software and hardware,Korg and Open Labs for example,although not the most popular products on the planet with the OASYS and NEKO are at least attempting to bridge that gap.For the workstation market to keep going forward these two products for me show forward thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members keyman_sam v2.0 Posted January 15, 2007 Members Share Posted January 15, 2007 I wouldnt say the Yamaha sounds better than the Oasys on all counts. It might sound better than the Oasys' rompler, but the VA sounds in the Oasys are pretty cool. But then again, I've not demoed either, so my judgement is solely based on mp3 demos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mike51 Posted January 15, 2007 Members Share Posted January 15, 2007 These demos are weak ... I don't see how anybody with a workstation they're already happy with would be GASSed up by them ... Yep. I wonder how many people know that using your old rompler sounds with a new effects unit makes it sound better than these demos.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DGX305 Posted January 15, 2007 Members Share Posted January 15, 2007 I'll stick to my under valued Alesis Fusion 8HD! (this is my very first post here) :wave: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Goo Posted January 15, 2007 Members Share Posted January 15, 2007 These demos are weak ... I don't see how anybody with a workstation they're already happy with would be GASSed up by them ... Anybody else notice the obvious lack of audio tracks? (Although, according to another post elsewhere, the XS is implementing something called - "Direct Performance Recording," which someone said could be HD recording ... But why would Yamaha not be releasing specs? ... it only hurts the initial impression.) EDIT: Initial impression ... A fine evolution of the Motif ... but that's it. I'm totally excited. It has the most sparkling clean sound, acoustic sounds are BY FAR better than anything on the market now (except smaple libraries of course), and the pads and atmospheres are very wide and spacious, uniquely breathy, airy and refreshenly liquid - the kind of sound that is not available on any other current synth. So yes, I can't wait for XS Rack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members orangefunk Posted January 15, 2007 Members Share Posted January 15, 2007 The thing I'm looking forward to is the multiple arpegs with drums, bass chords and stuff happening while I'm playing along... I really like the idea of that without being tied into the whole arranger thing... The only thing I think the Motif lacks is expression in the layers... the rhodes tone is great for a few mins but sounds dead after that. I'm thinking my main synth setup will just be the VSynth GT and the Motif XS with an iMac with Cubase AI, Reason 3, Ableton and Korg Legacy... although I could well be holding on to my Z1, Promega 3, rhodes and CX3, although that all might be in another room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Khazul Posted January 15, 2007 Members Share Posted January 15, 2007 I personally think the way forward is a merging of software and hardware,Korg and Open Labs for example,although not the most popular products on the planet with the OASYS and NEKO are at least attempting to bridge that gap.For the workstation market to keep going forward these two products for me show forward thinking. Fine idea in principle but... Somehow I cant see myself with 8+ functioning hardware synths and another half dozen or so functioning hardware fx boxes *AND* near zero latency when they are all connected to firewire, or worse - usb on my computer. Erm - where is the oasys trying to narrow that gap? I didnt think it offered anything from a computer integration standpoint. Actually neither does the neko - it just is the computer, so you end up with a laggy synth?... great... Virus TI, Lexicon MX400, Yamaha 01x/i88x etc - thats my idea of narrowing the gap - but not on USB - fine when you just have one or two devices - nightmare if you have lots as many of us do - sopmething very radical needs to be done to make the hardware computer integration thing work at all levels and still alow us the kind of hardware based studios and patching flexibility some of us have and dont want to loose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Keymaster Posted January 15, 2007 Members Share Posted January 15, 2007 Fine idea in principle but...Somehow I cant see myself with 8+ functioning hardware synths and another half dozen or so functioning hardware fx boxes *AND* near zero latency when they are all connected to firewire, or worse - usb on my computer.Erm - where is the oasys trying to narrow that gap? I didnt think it offered anything from a computer integration standpoint. Actually neither does the neko - it just is the computer, so you end up with a laggy synth?... great...Virus TI, Lexicon MX400, Yamaha 01x/i88x etc - thats my idea of narrowing the gap - but not on USB - fine when you just have one or two devices - nightmare if you have lots as many of us do - sopmething very radical needs to be done to make the hardware computer integration thing work at all levels and still alow us the kind of hardware based studios and patching flexibility some of us have and dont want to loose. Sorry I was talking from the workstation point of view,the workstation being the main piece of kit being used in say a live situation ,or from the stand point of people only being able to use one or two keyboards. Surely keyboard manufacturers would benefit bigtime if they produced products that can be kept up to date with software upgradable synth engines,efx,sample libaries etc etc. Example HD-1 in the Korg OASYS could in theory be upgraded this year or next year with HD-2(not that its a bad engine anyway).The cost would be way less than a brand new branded synth,no hardware costs,R&D etc etc.Initially you have to pay for the main board but all upgrades from then on in would be less and stay up to date for quite a few years. Surely Roland,Yamaha,Korg,Alesis etc etc must see the future for hardware lies with it to be able to intergrate with software and I dont mean being able to run all your PC/Mac programs but the actual units themselves being upgradable from the manufacturers own SOFTWARE based OS's.Yes they can hook up to your computers but they dont mimick it,they produce there own sound. I still think this is the way Yamaha,Roland and the rest should go,follow Korg's lead,start producing these products,the prices will eventually drop and if you use a workstation as your main keyboard for your set up it can only be a benefit to us all if all the big companies are trying to compete with products like this. Perhaps its just wishful thinking on my part.......... and to keep this on topic I still think the XS will sell well although I cant see myself buying one as I have no need for another workstation.It does sound clean and neat but then again Yamaha always have....what they need is a bit of grit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Diametro Posted January 15, 2007 Author Members Share Posted January 15, 2007 ...what they need is a bit of grit. Hear hear! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mildbill Posted January 16, 2007 Members Share Posted January 16, 2007 .... Anybody else notice the obvious lack of audio tracks? ..... ya, I was just looking over the specs here: http://yamahasynth.com/products/motifxs/index.html and also looking at the expanded pic of the back of the board. I only see the 2 sampling inputs. I think a couple things: maybe you record into ram, and then transfer it to an external hard disk. OR: probably more likely, it's assumed you'll use the included Cubase AI program for audio recording. Not sure what 'direct performance recording' is supposed to be tho (other than a buzzword for recording in real time maybe). I still get the general impression that the XS is a giant step backwards tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DmitryKo Posted January 16, 2007 Members Share Posted January 16, 2007 These demos are weak What is a good demo then? the XS is implementing something called - "Direct Performance Recording," which someone said could be HD recording No, it's most likely an equivalent to Auto Song Setup from the Triton LE (OS v1.5). You select a Performance, hit Record - and it ends up as a new Song in your sequencer, complete with FX setup and arpeggiators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DmitryKo Posted January 16, 2007 Members Share Posted January 16, 2007 I was just looking over the specs here the XS is a giant step backwards Don't let the spec game divert you from what actually matters - that is, the sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mildbill Posted January 16, 2007 Members Share Posted January 16, 2007 Don't let the spec game divert you from what actually matters - that is, the sound. You mean like the sound of the AN board? Maybe like the sound of the DX board. How about like the sound of the physical modelling VL board?Yes. The sound (and the way it's produced), matters. As do a few other things I find lacking in the XS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members swandiver Posted January 16, 2007 Members Share Posted January 16, 2007 You mean like the sound of the AN board? Maybe like the sound of the DX board. How about like the sound of the physical modelling VL board? ha ha--good one! And anyone who tries to say that the Yamaha ROM will be able to produce almost all the sounds of a good synth engine has never deeply explored a good synth engine! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DmitryKo Posted January 16, 2007 Members Share Posted January 16, 2007 And anyone who tries to say that the Yamaha ROM will be able to produce almost all the sounds of a good synth engine has never deeply explored a good synth engine! You mean VA synth engine? Well, there are V-Synth and the Virus TI which retail for a mere $3000, so go and vote with your pocket - and maybe Yamaha will have better reasons to include additional synth engines next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DmitryKo Posted January 16, 2007 Members Share Posted January 16, 2007 You mean like the sound of the AN board? Yes, it will be perfectly adequate for most users (and if you really need full-blown VA, there are other brands... at least some of them are still alive). Maybe like the sound of the DX board Yes, but without the disturbing hiss. How about like the sound of the physical modelling VL board? Yes. As a side note, you might want to try and actually control a VL board with the BC3a - if you succeed, you will automatically become Yamaha's Product Marketing Specialist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Diametro Posted January 16, 2007 Author Members Share Posted January 16, 2007 What is a good demo then? No, it's most likely an equivalent to Auto Song Setup from the Triton LE (OS v1.5). You select a Performance, hit Record - and it ends up as a new Song in your sequencer, complete with FX setup and arpeggiators. For me, a "good" demo shows off some of the unique sounds of the synth (none or few in this case, IMO) and in a way that doesn't scream mega-cheese. Those demos just didn't grab me in ANY way. Where are the four arps? Where are the mega-articulated voices? I heard a very nice sampled acoustic guitar ... but that's about it ... Anyway, you're probably right about the performance recording ... I just don't think this Motif has onboard audio tracks ... Have a great day, y'all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mildbill Posted January 16, 2007 Members Share Posted January 16, 2007 I've got plenty of VA's, don't have any hiss on my DX board, and have used a breath controller with the VL (on my EX5R) fairly successfully. No one says you have to use a breath controller with the VL board - it's completely functional without a BC. Plugin boards are far from an ideal solution, but they're good if you want to have a lot of functionality in one board. I think Yamaha could at least continue to support them in some minimal manner, like having the editors be available in the included Cubase AI program. Even better would be for them to release those technologies as vsti's to be used as virtual plugins instead of hardware ones. Like everyone else, I haven't heard the XS yet, except for the demos, but I expect it'll sound quite good. It just depends on what you're looking for, and what you expect out of a board. If you like it and think it's worth the price, more power to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members XorAxAx Posted January 17, 2007 Members Share Posted January 17, 2007 The TI is perhaps the best-LOOKING synth out there, and capable of some serious ear-candy, but man... The 4 envelopes and 16 analog filters on the Stomberg make me forget about the TI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DmitryKo Posted January 17, 2007 Members Share Posted January 17, 2007 No one says you have to use a breath controller with the VL board - it's completely functional without a BC.Except that Yamaha's product specialists on the MotiForum always stress that the full potention of the VL board can only be unveiled when using breath controller If you like it and think it's worth the price, more power to you. Yep - different toys for different folks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DmitryKo Posted January 17, 2007 Members Share Posted January 17, 2007 a "good" demo shows off some of the unique sounds of the synth (none or few in this case, IMO) Then you're probably just not in a market for a workstation synth - most workstation buyers expect their new workstation to have at least some familiar sounds from a previous one. Where are the four arps? Where are the mega-articulated voices? I heard a very nice sampled acoustic guitar ... but that's about it ... I believe arpeggiators control drum, bass and synth/pad parts in these demos (Performances are made of up to 4 parts in the XS, so one part is reserved for you to play live). Articulations are somewhat subtle in these demos, but you probably have more control over them comparing to the Tyros2 (BTW MegaVoices in the Tyros can only be triggered from a style - i.e. you can't play them on your keyboard, unlike similar voices available on the ES).I just don't think this Motif has onboard audio tracks ... No, it does have sample-based audio tracks, just like the Motif and the Motif ES (they call it Integrated Sampling Sequencer). Sample loading times could use some dramatic improvement on the ES though, and even more so on the classic Motif - we'll have to wait and see how the XS handles this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members darcity Posted January 17, 2007 Members Share Posted January 17, 2007 Hoax. If it's not, I'll eat my Motif ES6. J05H, Did your Motif ES6 taste like chicken? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members J05H Posted January 17, 2007 Members Share Posted January 17, 2007 J05H, Did your Motif ES6 taste like chicken? I had so much chocolate sauce on it that I really couldn't tell. The only thing that grabs me about this new Mo is the ability to use 8 Elements at a time, rather than 4. I've recently begun doing some velocity-switching experiments on my ES with wonderfully weird results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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