Pedalboard or modeller?

[Bassified]

Originally posted by GuyaGuy if nothing else it's good to know what those digital FX in your ZOOM are based on!

 

 

Well, I've been using amp models on that GFX-1. The Fender clean and sometimes the Peavey drive or the Brit crunch.

 

The distortion on the Peavey and Brit drive are pretty nice if you EQ them properly, but some of the other ones are unuseable.

 

Do other distortion pedals sound like those drives or better? For example the Marshall Guvnor or Line 6 Uber-metal.

[RUExp?]

You could get one of these:

[GuyaGuy]

Originally posted by Bassified Well, I've been using amp models on that GFX-1. The Fender clean and sometimes the Peavey drive or the Brit crunch. The distortion on the Peavey and Brit drive are pretty nice if you EQ them properly, but some of the other ones are unusable. Do other distortion pedals sound like those drives or better? For example the Marshall Guvnor or Line 6 Uber-metal.

i think you should look at how gorebuc describes distortion:

Originally posted by gorebuc This is the correct answer. As you play with pedals into the amp, you'll get a whole new idea of how "distortion" really works. It'll no longer be about the title of the sound and a "gain" knob. You'll feel like you have one instrument from guitar to amp. No longer will everything you play depend on the modeller to produce the sound. You'll realize that you don't need to change from clean to dirty so often...you just need to play softer. The volume knob on your guitar will finally get a workout. In short, while a modeller makes sense to have as many tones as necessary, a pedal/tube amp setup is really alot more fun...even with limitations. I promise, that, unless some other amp's distortion is really your cup o' tea, you won't miss all the other amp models...you'll get the sounds you need.

so you CAN get distortion from a box but you'll find it a lot more enjoyable and better-sounding to get it from an amp. even the best distortion pedals either a) just try to nudge the amp into distortion or b) emulate amp distortion.

i'd suggest getting to know your amp better. Marks are extremely versatile and can give you all sorts of lovely cleans and dirties. try using the volume knob as gorebuc describes, feel the physicality of real tube amp distortion and compression. if you don't like the distortion, find a pedal that can work with the amp to nudge it into distortion but adds the right color you're looking for.

then choose a couple of effects that you really like and play with those, see what they can do that a modeller can't. like i indicated in my 1st post, i'm not anti-multi fx. i just they're really good at some things and not at others. no need to throw away the ZOOM and buy a bunch of pedals you don't like. just start sampling, see what's out there and what you even need.

[Bassified]

Originally posted by GuyaGuy i think you should look at how gorebuc describes distortion: so you CAN get distortion from a box but you'll find it a lot more enjoyable and better-sounding to get it from an amp. even the best distortion pedals either a) just try to nudge the amp into distortion or b) emulate amp distortion. i'd suggest getting to know your amp better. Marks are extremely versatile and can give you all sorts of lovely cleans and dirties. try using the volume knob as gorebuc describes, feel the physicality of real tube amp distortion and compression. if you don't like the distortion, find a pedal that can work with the amp to nudge it into distortion but adds the right color you're looking for. then choose a couple of effects that you really like and play with those, see what they can do that a modeller can't. like i indicated in my 1st post, i'm not anti-multi fx. i just they're really good at some things and not at others. no need to throw away the ZOOM and buy a bunch of pedals you don't like. just start sampling, see what's out there and what you even need.

 

 

That makes sense, but I was thinking of selling my Zoom GFX-1 to free some cash. The Zoom doesn't do a lot of things well and some of the amp drives I don't relaly use.

 

Basically what you guys are suggesting is instead of labeling distortion types like "trying to get a Marshall JCM something drive", find a pedal that is versatile and can push my Mesa Mark to have a moderate to high overdrive. So instead of looking for an amp model like the Mesa Rectifier high gain, use a pedal to push my Mesa Mark IIB into high gain of its own?

[Brown Rug]

modeler? come on man... unless your budget is tight, i suggest going for the goods.

[utterhack]

Originally posted by Bassified So instead of looking for an amp model like the Mesa Rectifier high gain, use a pedal to push my Mesa Mark IIB into high gain of its own?

And discover the endless search for the perfect dirt pedal

You've been getting your dirt from amp models, which is why when you list the effects you might want you've only got delay and modulation. You're going to want some dirt as well, not just to drive your amp harder but to change the flavor of your drive.

[Bassified]

Originally posted by utterhack And discover the endless search for the perfect dirt pedal You've been getting your dirt from amp models, which is why when you list the effects you might want you've only got delay and modulation. You're going to want some dirt as well, not just to drive your amp harder but to change the flavor of your drive.

I kind of understand, but would like you to emphasize on that a bit more. I'm still trying to comprehend the full advantages and benefits of having a few pedals over a modeler.

I think my dirt has been coming from amp models, which is why when I want to duplicate that type of crunch, I'm not sure which distortion pedal to look to. For example, on the Zoom GFX-1, I was using the Peavey drive and it had a really nice *oomph*. Palm mutes sounded really nice. Something my Mesa Mark IIB was lacking overall in the lead channel-I'm not too fond of the IIB lead channel. How do I get that kind of oomph in the IIB and which pedal should I be looking into?

[RUExp?]

I guess the real question is what is the Zoom lacking that you want? What is the Mark IV lacking that you want? Not enough gain? Not tight enough?

[GuyaGuy]

Originally posted by Bassified That makes sense, but I was thinking of selling my Zoom GFX-1 to free some cash. The Zoom doesn't do a lot of things well and some of the amp drives I don't relaly use. Basically what you guys are suggesting is instead of labeling distortion types like "trying to get a Marshall JCM something drive", find a pedal that is versatile and can push my Mesa Mark to have a moderate to high overdrive. So instead of looking for an amp model like the Mesa Rectifier high gain, use a pedal to push my Mesa Mark IIB into high gain of its own?

 

 

right.

instead of getting distortion out of a box (whether digi or analog) get it from your amp. use pedals to help nudge and color your amp for whatever sound you're going for.

[utterhack]

Originally posted by Bassified I kind of understand, but would like you to emphasize on that a bit more.

 

 

Unfortunately, it's not going to be as simple as pedal X = amp model Y.

 

There are definitely pedals that are designed to deliver distorted tones that resemble those of classic amps, but your individual flavor will be colored by the amp, your amp settings and your pedal settings.

 

Individual pedals will give you a lot more control over the last 20% of your tone - the little on-the-fly tweaks that modelers make difficult. From a budget/complexity perspective they'll also radically reduce the broad palette of options a modeler provides, but replace it with tone that's 100% yours. No one listening may ever hear the difference, but you'll feel it.

 

Another option for changing the tone of your drive, and certainly the most versatile, would be a decent EQ pedal. Probably the closest thing to a set of amp models, since most of them are effectively EQ/gain presets anyway.

 

 

PS - you're hitting on the reason why there will always be a "wat's teh best OD/distortion/fuzz/brewtal" pedal thread. But don't worry, there are a ton of boxes that'll give you a good palm mute. If the Peavey model's a 5150 kinda thing, you might look into the MI Audio Crunch Box, which has a pretty good EVH-in-a-box reputation.

[lostandfoundpdx]

i have never even entertained owning a modeler. maybe a POD to record with, but never in a million years would i put a huge choke on my tone with a modeler in my live rig.

each pedal has it's own character, they react to things differently (sometimes bad, sometimes good) and that gives them their own spirit. modelers are designed so that all the patches work seamlessly with each other, which i think is boring. my favorite thing about my pedalboard is having the little monsters beating the {censored} out of each other. i love to delay my phaser and chop the whole thing with my tremelo. sonic chaos is what i live on, and a modeler could never do that for me the same way


but if you are needing specific things, ie. church band, home recordist/jam guy, etc., then get something to cover loads of ground. but for my money, i want real tone, not some sampled version of someone elses tone.



like who the hell buys those weird signature digitech pedals? give me a break.

[Bassified]

Originally posted by RUExp? I guess the real question is what is the Zoom lacking that you want? What is the Mark IV lacking that you want? Not enough gain? Not tight enough?

 

 

Well, I have a Mark IIB, not a Mark IV. The lead channel on my Mark IIB sounds kind of muddy. Overall, I just don't like the distortion.

 

 

 

Originally posted by utterhack Unfortunately, it's not going to be as simple as pedal X = amp model Y. There are definitely pedals that are designed to deliver distorted tones that resemble those of classic amps, but your individual flavor will be colored by the amp, your amp settings and your pedal settings. Individual pedals will give you a lot more control over the last 20% of your tone - the little on-the-fly tweaks that modelers make difficult. From a budget/complexity perspective they'll also radically reduce the broad palette of options a modeler provides, but replace it with tone that's 100% yours. No one listening may ever hear the difference, but you'll feel it. Another option for changing the tone of your drive, and certainly the most versatile, would be a decent EQ pedal. Probably the closest thing to a set of amp models, since most of them are effectively EQ/gain presets anyway. PS - you're hitting on the reason why there will always be a "wat's teh best OD/distortion/fuzz/brewtal" pedal thread. But don't worry, there are a ton of boxes that'll give you a good palm mute. If the Peavey model's a 5150 kinda thing, you might look into the MI Audio Crunch Box, which has a pretty good EVH-in-a-box reputation.

 

 

So the main thing is to create my own sound instead of labeling my distortion. It's kind of like, instead of getting distortion straight from an amp model, like a Peavey 5150, create high gain and good palm mutes using.....say.....a Marshall Guvnor or Rocktron Zombie Rectifier Distortion through a Mesa Mark IIB?

 

 

In essence, is this similar?

 

When going after 'Mesa Rectifier tone':

 

1) Rocktron Zombie Rectifier Distortion

 

2) Line 6 Podxt Live amp model

[Bassified]

[scott_335]

You just need to get an EQ pedal. Get a dano fish n' chips and a wah and delay pedal and play with that for a while

[Bassified]

Alright, but it is possible to recreate the kind of 'Mesa Rectifier' high gain tone using a pedal instead of an amp model, right?

[Bassified]

[scott_335]

Im going to say no. There is not pedal that I know of that is going to sound just like a recto. You can get close, but an amp is an amp and a pedal is a pedal. Its been said before though, you already have a good tube amp. you dont need to model another one. An EQ pedal will change the sound of the distortion and you can get a sound closer to a recto. Or, sell your amp and get a recto.

[Bassified]

Originally posted by scott_335 Im going to say no. There is not pedal that I know of that is going to sound just like a recto. You can get close, but an amp is an amp and a pedal is a pedal. Its been said before though, you already have a good tube amp. you dont need to model another one. An EQ pedal will change the sound of the distortion and you can get a sound closer to a recto. Or, sell your amp and get a recto.

 

 

Interesting. I guess so.

 

I am considering the Electro Harmonix Metal Muff right now and possibly an EQ pedal from BOSS.

 

I might get a PodXT Live for a backup to my rig. Maybe.

[Bassified]

build a pedalboard.

both, get pedals and get a board for pedals?