OT : Amazing article on world class musician being ignored as he plays in a subway

[NITEFLY182]

Not at all. We all know who he is, but try asking a random sample of people from different walks of life, different ages, different races, different occupations...

 

 

Are you talking about Mayer or the violinist because I had no idea who the violinist was until I read the story and I have a hard time believing everyone here has a good knowledge of his catalog either.

[chump5150]

Are you talking about Mayer or the violinist because I had no idea who the violinist was until I read the story and I have a hard time believing everyone here has a good knowledge of his catalog either.

I was responding to your post that said the experiment wouldn't work with John Mayer because everyone would recognize him. So.. I said that outside of this forum not everyone would recognize him, "him" meaning John Mayer. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.

[whitepapagold]

You are placing far too much value on some hidden "scientific method" here that doesn't exist. This isn't hard journalism and the writer (who did not report the story) was on of the founders of TWP's Style section. This was a creative study that is meant to show the pace of life in Washington and the nature of things which reveals that even the best musician couldn't change that. The could have done anything like this but the contrast between the metro and classical music is more striking than the greatest game of dice and the metro. You also have to consider that they needed to find someone famous in their field that was also unknown to the general public. They could have done this same experiment with John Mayer but it wouldn't have worked because everyone would recognize him. Further, the violin's value is a point of interest but the story is not centered on the instrument at all. It merely adds to the hyperbolic quality of the experiance.

No, Im not placing too much. You are apparently ignorant to how a study- ANY STUDY- is laid out. To imply this doesn't fall under the category of scientific responsiblity is just..... There was UNQUESTIONABLY a hypothesis here that spurred the entire article and study. Yes it is a study. Wierd to hear such things implied. That aspect of your response is clueless!
And I respond to the violins value because it is mentioned in this thread. Nice use of hyperbolic to imply legitimacy though... Articulation doesn't override ignorance! You may want to brush up on what a "hypothesis" is and talk to some Psych majors and see if this qualifies... Jeeze. Sorry to be such an ass about it but man are you 100% incorrect! To the point of no understanding of what a "study" is as well as the expected guidelines of any "study" that makes an assertion! Its an article about a psychologcal study- and UMMMM.... Yes a final assertion is made. Man, do you just make this crap up as you go?

[whitepapagold]

If the tiddlywinks player was making a bunch of noise, I'd look over...and then if he did some super sweet tiddlywink jump or something...yeah, I'd watch for a bit...

 

 

Ok, lets say the tiddle winks were miced... through loud speakers and there was a big sign that said "tiddle wink master". Your missing the point I was making. Value. Value is relative not universal. Period. Credibility is in the eye of the beholder.

[whitepapagold]

+1, I've highlighted and italicized the crucial point. That's why in science, you carefully document your methodology so other scientists can duplicate your results. I've worked in entertainment PR firms, and seen firsthand the brainstorming process to come up with interesting articles for the entertainment and mainstream media. I guarantee you that when the story was pitched, the editors knew what result they wanted, and the way they were going to have the story written. It would have been a boring article without the staged result, no doubt. And look, they've got people talking about it... the editors did their job well. After all, the article wasn't published in Scientific American .

Its responses like this that give me hope for the future. People are VERY ignorant as to how media REALLY works! Media does NOT = truth. Anybody hear of the word "spin"......

[CicadaSilence]

I think most of you drips missed the point. I'm not into going to expensive classical concerts either, but when a violin, especially one as good as that is played beautifully, it would normally be mesmerising to at least a certain proportion of the herd...you'd think. Like being late to their boring, monotonous office job (which most of them probably hate) by an extra minute = fired. What it shows is the mindless conveyer belt of humanity is alive, well and growing. Many of those 1000's of commuters wouldn't have been late for anything, but none stopped or formed a group around well played music. No wonder music sounds so {censored}ing generic and mindless these days. It's all gotta be part of the predigested, non-challenging (ie. reverse snobbery) chaff that the unconscious find easy to swallow, promoted by endless pop culture, silicon-enhanced advertising. I've stopped my afternoon walk in front of someone's house just because they were making an instrument sing. I'll stick with the kids on this one thanks. One time, my bro bought me tickets to Maxim Vengarov (also a vitruoso violinist backed by full orchestra)...{censored}ing brilliant musican I won't forget soon. I think he was in his mid 20's then. I guess I must be a high brow snob because I enjoyed it.

I haven't read this yet, but I'm willing to bet you've hit the nail on the head.

*reading*

...

Yup, well done. We need a collective wakeup call, the whole misguided lot of us.

[whitepapagold]

I haven't read this yet, but I'm willing to bet you've hit the nail on the head. *reading* ... Yup, well done. We need a collective wakeup call, the whole misguided lot of us.

Thank god we have people who feel the need to tell others what should be "appreciated".... Screw relativity! These responses are INCREDIBLE! No wonder Oprah is filthy rich... Do yall subscribe to her book club? She LOVES to tell you what it worthy of appreciation! Man this thread is getting depressing! Group hug?

[NITEFLY182]

Its responses like this that give me hope for the future. People are VERY ignorant as to how media REALLY works! Media does NOT = truth. Anybody hear of the word "spin"......

 

 

Yeah I definitly took a reporting/feature writing class at J school with one of the reporters in this story and work at a competing newspaper in the city. I have a pretty good comprehension of what the media does.

 

I think its pretty clearly laid out that they knew what would happen and they aren't treating this as a scientific study in any way. They just wanted to see what would happen and they were treated with the results they expected. Why should the occurence of an expected response be treated as contrived?

[whitepapagold]

They just wanted to see what would happen and they were treated with the results they expected. Why should the occurence of an expected response be treated as contrived?

 

Because the foundation of their theory has a fatal flaw. What is important to you may NOT be important to me. And to imply there is a flaw in those who don't respond is accusatory and inflamitory as well as gets responses like "pearls for the swine". The John Mayer comparison shows EXACTLY what I mean. Do you REALLY think 51% of the population knows who he is? Well then what %? We are on a GUITAR music site so OF COURSE we know. But I would say easily 80% + DOES NOT. I think Slayer is an incredible band BUT society does not as a whole agree so they are discounted compared to classical. I'd like to see how many people stay FAR away from them in a subway. Its all about perception and relativity. The story CHOSE classical with the assumption that EVERYONE SHOULD APPRECIATE IT or they are somehow inferior. And again, they REALLY DO have guys from Juliard playing at Disneyland.... But screw them the kids want to see Mickey and they could care less even if I MAKE them listen... They would also listen to a kazoo and with WAY MORE INTEREST.

 

Its a question of "who sets the bar"? Well I say we all do and its relative.

 

Oh and it is a scientific study because it has a hypothesis and assertion-a question and an answer based off the data collected. Whether they "call" it one or not doesn't matter. They gathered data, applied the hypothesis, and made a final assertion. Thats a study. Come on.... semantics.

[NITEFLY182]

Because the foundation of their theory has a fatal flaw. What is important to you may NOT be important to me. And to imply there is a flaw in those who don't respond is accusatory and inflamitory as well as gets responses like "pearls for the swine". The John Mayer comparison shows EXACTLY what I mean. Do you REALLY think 51% of the population knows who he is? Well then what %? We are on a GUITAR music site so OF COURSE we know. But I would say easily 80% + DOES NOT. I think Slayer is an incredible band BUT society does not as a whole agree so they are discounted compared to classical. I'd like to see how many people stay FAR away from them in a subway. Its all about perception and relativity. The story CHOSE classical with the assumption that EVERYONE SHOULD APPRECIATE IT or they are somehow inferior. And again, they REALLY DO have guys from Juliard playing at Disneyland.... But screw them the kids want to see Mickey and they could care less even if I MAKE them listen... They would also listen to a kazoo and with WAY MORE INTEREST. Its a question of "who sets the bar"? Well I say we all do and its relative. Oh and it is a scientific study because it has a hypothesis and assertion-a question and an answer based off the data collected. Whether they "call" it one or not doesn't matter. They gathered data, applied the hypothesis, and made a final assertion. Thats a study. Come on.... semantics.

I believe they chose classical music because it has more of a chance of two things:

1. The player can clearly be identified as good or bad and their talent is not the issue.
2. Classical music is not popular music and has little radio play compared to other styles. It was more likely to be stylistically alien to the audience which would make it less likely to target specific groups or people.

[whitepapagold]

I believe they chose classical music because it has more of a chance of two things: 1. The player can clearly be identified as good or bad and their talent is not the issue. 2. Classical music is not popular music and has little radio play compared to other styles. It was more likely to be stylistically alien to the audience which would make it less likely to target specific groups or people.

 

 

Then we disagree there. And thats an answer we can't really get. But I still think they chose it because of its history and respect culturally.

 

Though in response to 1. I don't think most people can distinguish good and great playing and most are impressed if you can play anything (again non-musicians), so Im not sure that applies. I bet most of the subway patrons would be impressed by minimal skill.

2. They could play ANY instrument and make it alien in the sense you describe. There was more to it than that. Classical is widely accepted as the culturally elite generalized form of music followed second by Jazz- its bastard child. There is a societal assertion that these forms of music offer a substance that others do not (based off complexity and history). Only in recent years (historically) has ANY music other than classical been offered in educational facilities. Math, science, art, and music - the fundamentals- only acknowledged classical under music as far as being worthy of education. This is rooted deeply in our society. Thats a fact. This is what I assume they based their choice off of- we are SUPPOSED to like/respect classical music, otherwise you are deemed a psuedo-intellectual trogladite...

 

But I admit that is an assumption that I have after reading the article. Especially cause there is no question of motive- its obvious where this article is going to go- and I bet that was true LONG before it was written. Funny, nobody stopped to listen but EVERYONE slows to see a car accident... Can an assertion be made there? Gore over music...No. I would say human nature over societal expectations....

[4Kenoath]

No, Im not placing too much. You are apparently ignorant to how a study- ANY STUDY- is laid out. To imply this doesn't fall under the category of scientific responsiblity is just..... There was UNQUESTIONABLY a hypothesis here that spurred the entire article and study. Yes it is a study. Wierd to hear such things implied. That aspect of your response is clueless! And I respond to the violins value because it is mentioned in this thread. Nice use of hyperbolic to imply legitimacy though... Articulation doesn't override ignorance! You may want to brush up on what a "hypothesis" is and talk to some Psych majors and see if this qualifies... Jeeze. Sorry to be such an ass about it but man are you 100% incorrect! To the point of no understanding of what a "study" is as well as the expected guidelines of any "study" that makes an assertion! Its an article about a psychologcal study- and UMMMM.... Yes a final assertion is made. Man, do you just make this crap up as you go?

As a former postgrad scientist who did some large environmental impact studies as my own boss...I find your assertion at best a huge stretch, and at worse, just plain self righteous and arrogant. By your rationale, most of the things we do are scientific studies because we all make assumptions/hypothesis about the nature of things and the outcome of our actions. This was no more a scientific style experiment than a Candid Camera skit...I'm assuming you'd classify that as a science based TV show as well. It was all about trying to get a reaction out of people who frequent an area at a certain time.

The fact you'd pick on the comments about the violin's worth (which were 'barely there' in this context) as a way to further justify your points confirms for me, a typical self righteousness you find rife in science circles. It was unimportant/irrelevant.

You should have written another article yourself...you're easily the most arrogant, self absorbed twat in this thread.

I don't think most people can distinguish good and great playing and most are impressed if you can play anything (again non-musicians)...

How would you know? Response to music is about the feeling it imbues. It's been a long while since I've come across someone this patronising in this forum...you ever heard of the TGP...you'll fit right in. Quote of the month award.

Many things, including this, do not require this over-analysing wankery, especially when it's clearly more to do with self importance.

[beezdeez]

Isn't it funny how {censored}ing robotic life is? Wake up, go to work, eat, come home, do chores and take care of the kids, watch tv, play guitar, sleep. Rinse. Repeat.

Watching him would throw a huge wrench into their daily routine. People don't have time to experience something different.

I intern at a huge corporation contracted by the Navy right now. It's all the same {censored} everyday. I'm make a ton of money (even just as an intern), but it's {censored}ing depressing thinking that I'll be doing the same ol' {censored} for the next 40-50 years over and over. And it's depressing to think that if some guy was sitting outside of my building with a small tube amp, a booteek guitar, and a couple of choice pedals, that I'd be too scared to sit and watch because I wouldn't be able to punch the clock on time.

{censored} the man. Watch street performers.

[whitepapagold]

As a former postgrad scientist

 

Exactly. Former.... And where may I ask and in what degree? Post grad scientist... if you weren't full of it, you would say "biologist" or "anthropologist" or "ignoramous".... You're mom wants you in bed by 10.... Its value enforcers like yourself that are the fall of free society and true intellectual thought. Free thought is important but apparently you already know it all and feel the power to deem others unworthy. Please bless us with your ignorance some more! No maybe you did a little ITT tech.... Ill give you that! Jeeze and you say Im pretentious.... You are the one claiming the common man is lacking relative to your brilliance... and his lack of love of classical music proves your intellectual superiority....

 

I love it when people try to sell themselves as legit..... hehehehe. Post grad scientist my arse.... Typical. What was it- Phys ed?

[whitepapagold]

NICE I got sig'ed!!! :thu: 4Kenoath - NICE!

I love that. No joke! You can call me a twat anytime!

[Cougar Hunter]

I'm guessing this cat wants to make common folk look musically retarded with the intention of raising taxes to support his non-career.

[The Friendly Ranger]

I actually saw footage of it...not only did people pull their eager children away from the big bad, evil violinist...they tended to walk as far around him as they could as though he was contageous.

 

Everyone knows musicians are pervs.

[capnbringdown]

Thank god we have people who feel the need to tell others what should be "appreciated".... Screw relativity! These responses are INCREDIBLE! No wonder Oprah is filthy rich... Do yall subscribe to her book club? She LOVES to tell you what it worthy of appreciation! Man this thread is getting depressing! Group hug?

Cormac McCarthy is going to be in Oprah's book club next. I can hardly wait.

[capnbringdown]

2. Classical music is not popular music and has little radio play compared to other styles. It was more likely to be stylistically alien to the audience which would make it less likely to target specific groups or people.

 

 

Incorrect. There are several pieces of classical music that are well known. This guy chose to play the most obscure pieces he could imagine and expected it to draw a crowd. Maybe if he had chose to play some pieces that are more well known, it would've attracted more of a crowd.

[shock54321]

yeah, like "yesterday" or 'eleanor rigby"

[WorkingClassDan]

I'm working my way through the responses here, but my initial response when seeing it on TV was the time of day is the killer. This dude playing in the mall at lunch would get hundreds of people and dollars. Put him in the subway (people with destinations, timetables etc) and it doesn't matter how good the muso is they have their own life to live. Anyone could have told you the outcome before they pulled the stunt.

In Australia they played NBC footage and looked like a cheap stunt to fill aritime.

[Cow4prez]

This is a pretty amazing article about one of the worlds greatest violinist playing some of the worlds greatest music on one of the worlds greatest violins in a subway atation while people ignore him...a pretty interesting comment on the pace of life and people http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/04/AR2007040401721.html?hpid=artslot tj

 

 

Very good post, even if it's off topic. Certainly a lot more intelligent and mind tingling than the average no brainer posts at the HCEF.

[seifukusha]

i agree. its all perspective. evrything is. living in different cultures has taught me that. one time, someone told me i was selfish cause i play my guitar for recording and not for my friends. you say potato, i saw..all perspective. also, i dont like classical music. ive heard alot of it, but its just not me. thats ok.

anyway, when im on my way to work, i dont have to time stop and smell the flowers either, i have to go to work. flower smelling happens on my own dime