A lot of questions from a guy about to get serious about tap dancing

[JBecker]

Well, for the first time in a couple of years it looks like I'll be back on stage and I'm pretty excited about that. Last time around I was using a Small Stone and DL4, but this gig is going to call for something pretty different.

 

For starters, I've been a volume knob rider for a long time, but this band is requiring me to do some pretty decent work with my hands and I'd like to move my pinky off the volume knob and go with my foot for cleaning up my amp or sending it to "10". So a volume pedal is definitely in order. I'm thinking just a plain old EB passive will do the trick because really all I want is a volume pot that reacts identical to my guitar's volume pot but controlled with my foot (obviously, if the taper is different due to being easier to control with my feet, that's fine, just tonally, that's all I'm looking for).

 

I'm definitely going to need a tuner for stage, but I don't see the point in having a strobostomp-- I'll get close enough for rock and roll with something half the price for sure. I know that these tend to be huge tone suckers, and I really don't want to deal with that. How well does using the tuner out on a volume pedal work to remove a tuner from the signal path? I've heard mixed things from the amp forum on this one.

 

From there, I think I want to trade my EHX Stereo Memory Man, which sounds awesome, for something a bit more versatile. Well, my favorite use of delay (and consequently, sounding delays) come from Cave In's Antenna album and I've heard they're using the Akai Headrush. I wouldn't mind having features like tap tempo, a longer delay time, and the looping again (remember, I had the DL4) even though I love the lush analog sound of the EHX.

 

As for anything else, I know the only two things I see myself using with my current amp would be a really nice fuzz for the Gilmour lead thing-- nice, singing, more violin like sustain and just that awesomeness, and a nice wah. My personal use of a wah would be most like Third Eye Blind's use, which is kind of hard for me to explain and not quite the way I've heard other bands use it before. Awesome sounding. Kevin Cadogen apparently used a Morley Switchless wah, but I've heard great things about Teese, etc...

 

The wah and fuzz will definitely come a bit later, the rest is coming in the next few weeks as long as this rehearsal (on Sunday) goes well.

 

Thoughts on running a power strip (a good one) rather than something like a pedal power? I'm going to want low noise, and no signal loss-- I'm very happy with my tone straight in and would like to preserve that.

 

One day I'll definitely be adding a boost, and maybe even a crunch pedal, but not as long as I have the Valvetech which really goes from clean to mean in a way that I just love and have no issues with.

 

Thanks for the help in advance, just looking to build a board slowly and correctly.

 

This band seems to be going in a direction that's kind of a mix between Mae and Explosions in the Sky with some harder alternative rock in there for sure. Cool stuff, I hope.

[Loobster]

I would say look at getting a DL4 again. It's versatile and works great for live. Sure, it's not boutique level sound quality but it makes all the right noises.

[SUPER VELCROBOY]

wow that is a lot to be done.

First with the power. You can certainly get away with a power strip, but it might get to be a huge tangle. The alternative as you may be aware with be something like a 1 spot daisy chain -- the problem is of course noise, but this is not always an issue...depends on the pedals. If money isn't an object, then go with pedal power 2, each output is isolated. If you a really picky about noise, then a power conditioner might be up the alley.

 

as for a volume pedal, i'm not a volume pedal kind of guy. I just use the guitar volume. but that is just me.

 

for tuner, opinions will vary on this, but i'm a cheap tuner kind of guy. All you need is an accurate tuner, not necessarily an expensive one. Might want to consider an a/b box for silent tuning and avoid the crappy tuner bypass. I true bypass my tu-12h with a switch.

 

delay the dmm and the headrush are both good.

 

if you want the gilmour sound, check out the skreddy top fuel. That's what it does. I'm getting one myself.

 

i'm not really into boost...

well that is it for now

[Loobster]

For tuner I like my Korg DT-10 or whatever it's called. It's the black metal one. No tone suckage at all.

[Fender&EHX4ever]

I think I want to trade my EHX Stereo Memory Man, which sounds awesome, for something a bit more versatile.... even though I love the lush analog sound of the EHX.

 

 

Coming from an EHX fiend, don't settle for anything less if you know you like the "lush" tone of a Memory Man. You might love the versatility of another effect, but you'll be missing the tone, and you'll kick yourself for trading it in.

 

$.02

[SpectralJulian]

Korg DT-10 for the tuner.

 

Maybe you could email John Cusack about a custom tap tempo job on your DMM? That would be the {censored}.

[SUPER VELCROBOY]

Korg DT-10 for the tuner. .

 

 

i forget, the korg dt10 is true bypass right?

[JBecker]

Korg DT-10 for the tuner. Maybe you could email John Cusack about a custom tap tempo job on your DMM? That would be the {censored}.

 

Diamond Memory Lane I think is basically a DMM with a 600ms delay by loading on another bucket brigade and a tap tempo, but it's something like 500 bucks new. Forget that...

[bbrunskill]

i forget, the korg dt10 is true bypass right?

 

 

No, definatly not. But it has a good buffer, that sounds (to my ears) better than most TB pedals anyway.

 

Mr AtarisPunk29

I would recomend a EB volume. They are nice to use, reliable and don't suck tone much.

 

Like super velcroboy, I recommend the KORG DT-10

(i have 3!) they are excellent, good tracking, good buffer, reliable and look good too.

But DON'T put it in the tuner out of the volume.

To really simplify, if you have it plugged in to the tuner out, some of your guitar's sound is going to the tuner and never even making it to the amp!

 

Akai Headrush E2 is a great pedal, but how about keeping your EHX too, because that lush modulation is just sweet.

[JBecker]

No, definatly not. But it has a good buffer, that sounds (to my ears) better than most TB pedals anyway. Mr AtarisPunk29 I would recomend a EB volume. They are nice to use, reliable and don't suck tone much. Like super velcroboy, I recommend the KORG DT-10 (i have 3!) they are excellent, good tracking, good buffer, reliable and look good too. But DON'T put it in the tuner out of the volume. To really simplify, if you have it plugged in to the tuner out, some of your guitar's sound is going to the tuner and never even making it to the amp! Akai Headrush E2 is a great pedal, but how about keeping your EHX too, because that lush modulation is just sweet.

 

 

Good to know. I've heard that a decent buffer in front of the chain provided by the right pedal will actually help preserve the highs that are sometimes lost through a longer signal chain. Truth in that? Feel like selling one of those DT-10s?

 

So the tuner out just splits the signal in half? Not cool.

 

I'd love to keep the EHX, but I'm hoping to use it to fund some of the next step. I may not have an easy time getting rid of it though since it is a Stereo MM not the, apparently much more desirable, DMM. I do like that Delay + Modulation sound I could get with a DMM or by setting the SMM to chorus after the Akai...

[SUPER VELCROBOY]

No, definatly not. But it has a good buffer, that sounds (to my ears) better than most TB pedals anyway.

aw that is too bad, but it looks like something i wouldn't mind modding (looks easy too) even if the buffer is good. i already got enough buffers on my board. for some reason, zzounds and mfs say that the dt-10 has been discontinued... ugh is this true?

[SUPER VELCROBOY]

are there 2 outputs from the SMM, if so, you can use one of those to output to a tuner.

[JBecker]

are there 2 outputs from the SMM, if so, you can use one of those to output to a tuner.

 

This would be less susceptible to the tone issues that the volume pedal tuner has? Also, wouldn't turning on my delay to tune {censored} with the tuner accuracy?

[SUPER VELCROBOY]

This would be less susceptible to the tone issues that the volume pedal tuner has? Also, wouldn't turning on my delay to tune {censored} with the tuner accuracy?

 

 

i used to do this with my TZF, which has 2 outputs. I just turn everything in front off and play clean into the pedal. Of course you would still hear yourself tuning (maybe not your cup of tea). I don't see why your tone would suffer assuming the smm is designed properly. Try and find out i guess.

[willburford]

If you like the tone of the SMM but want more options, you might want to look into the new SMM with Hazarai. I don't know when it'll be out, or when your next gig is that you need a nice delay, but if it's after the release date of the SMM with Hazarai I'd definitely check it out. There's a pretty crappy video of it on gearwire.com but it'll help you get a small insight as to what it can do. Tap tempo, presets, analog sound (filter knob)... sounds good to me.

[L6Sguy]

the dt10 is/has been replaced by the dt10-bk (black), which has a power-out (a la TU-2).

'tuner out' article from forumite Andreas. it ends with an interesting bit: "Run the signal through the tuner - a Korg DT-10 has a pretty good buffer system, that might actually help your tone (especially if your board is all true bypass and you often play with all pedals off). "

[Reid Wall]

I use the ernie ball 6166 and love it. The newer ones even have a couple different swell rates. I would get the korg dt-10 (or whatever the new version is). For power, I would definitely get the Visual Sound 1 Spot. The whole kit is like $30, it takes up one power spot on an outline, and runs 110-240volts, so wherever you go in the world it works I use one to power my whole pedal board (listed below). I'm not real up on Fuzz pedals. For a wah I would go find a crybaby on ebay for real cheap and send it to keeley for a true bypass mod and an led mod. I wouldn't get a DL-4, I had one, they just don't stand up to gigging well, I know heaps of people that stepped on them to many times and the switch went right through the circuit board. I think the DD-20 is the way to go. They do just about any rhythmic setting you want, and they are made by boss (one of the few good things boss does make), so you'll have a hard time breaking it.

 

hope that helps,

[Zachman]

If you get a cheap A/B box, you can have your tuner in one side and to your volume pedal on the other and keep the tone sucking tuner out of your signal chain altogether, and still have silent tuning.

[JBecker]

Up for more advice. Thanks everyone so far.

[Reid Wall]

there is a pretty big true bypass fad these days. True bypass is great (my whole rig runs on a true bypass strip) but at the same time, everything being true bypass can mean signal degredation with the amount of cabling in line. Because of this reason I run my DT-10 first, so it acts as a buffer and I leave it on all the time (and run it through the un muted output). This is probably a more important factor for people like, me, but still worth noting.

[justintee]

i can't add much that others haven't already mentioned.. if you like the channel switching of your amp, keep it that way! i only use the clean channel of mine (a jtm30)..

 

i agree about the true bypass fad, although i do believe having a good buffer right at the start of the chain essential. right now i have my superduper2in1 first in chain and always on, but prior to having it i had my hotcake first in the chain because Paul's put in a very high quality buffer, imho.

 

getting the pedal power 2 plus would be a very worthwhile investment; minimal noise/hum, reliability, and some versatility with what it could power, e.g. if you do decide with something like the dd-20 or the dl-4, it could power those fine... just got a hold of my 230V version and couldn't be happier...

[L6Sguy]

the other noteworthy thing re: DT-10 is that it is more accurate than the TU-2, planet waves stomp, and several of the other lower-rent tuners out there.



i've also had great, great service from my arion 8500, bought back in 96, iirc. for low-renters, its pretty tough to beat.

[Zachman]

From Custom Audio Electronics' website:

 

What are buffers and how are they used?

 

Buffers are extremely important in a multi-component system. They are often misunderstood and often get a bad rap by those who are uninformed. In a CAE system, a buffer is a unity gain (input level equals output level) impedance converting circuit. It essentially protects your high impedance guitar output (or any other high impedance source, such as an amps' effects loop send) from being loaded down by the input it is connected to. In effect, it converts high impedance to low, which means subsequent stages are then driven by a low impedance source (the buffer's output). High impedance sources such as your guitar's output (assuming you have passive pickups) has very little current drive capability and it's signal is subject to a harsh environment once it leaves the guitar. You already know the adverse affect a long cable has on your tone. Same thing happens if you pass your signal through a bunch of effects pedals. Even if they have "true bypass" (an ugly, over-used term), each one will suck a little more of your signal along with the cables and connectors, mainly due to capacitive loading of your high impedance guitar signal. The end result is a muffled weak signal that lacks clarity. But once your high impedance guitar signal hits a properly designed buffer with a high input impedance, the buffer takes over, and uses its higher current capability (remember, its an active circuit that requires a power supply) to drive all subsequent stages, thus preserving your instrument's tone. This brings us to buffer quality. Buffers come in all types of designs, from discrete transistor, op-amp, to esoteric tube designs. All have their own unique sonic stamp. At CAE we use the op-amp approach. It has served us well for years, is low noise, and is extremely transparent to our ears. Buffers often get blamed for causing an overly bright sound, but we feel if its designed properly, any perceived "brightness" is because now the guitar is not being loaded down by subsequent stages!

 

Buffers can cause problems, too. There are some effects devices that don't like to see the low output impedance of a buffer. These are typically discrete transistor designed fuzz circuits (such as the Dallas Arbiter Fuzz Face). They react better to the high impedance output of the guitar. In fact, the guitar output, cable and input stage of the Fuzz Face complete a circuit that is highly dependent of those 3 components to work correctly. Fuzz Faces clean up nicely when you roll back the guitar volume control... not so if a buffer is between the guitar and Fuzz Face input. So if you have a pedal board with a Fuzz Face on it , put it first! Other pedals may react the same way. Experiment to see what works best for you. Keep in mind all active pedals (such as Boss, Ibanez, etc...) act as buffers and will impart their own sonic stamp even when bypassed. This is what started the whole "true bypass" (ugh! that term again) craze. See? Too much of a good thing can be "bad". Which brings us to how we utilize buffers in CAE custom switchers. We only use buffers where absolutely necessary. Typically, in a pedal based system we will not buffer until after the first 4-5 loops, which is usually just prior to sending the signal down to the pedal board (via a long cable run, hence the need to buffer) to hit the wah/volume pedals. Any more than 4 or 5 loops, and the guitar signal may be affected by capacitive loading. So the first few loops is where you would put any impedance sensitive effects. This also means your guitar will go through fuzz, overdrive or distortion pedals BEFORE the wah. We prefer this order because the wah then has a more harmonically rich signal to filter. Try it yourself. Of course, if a specific order is required, we will do everything we can to make it happen. Buffers are also necessary to drive isolation transformers, since the relatively low primary impedance of the transformers may be detrimental to whatever circuit is feeding it. This is also why amp splitter circuits must be buffered. You can't drive multiple amps with a relatively high impedance source. So there usually is a buffer somewhere in the output stage of your custom switcher. That's usually it. 2 places minimum. There may be more active stages depending on your system requirements.

[JBecker]

CUT.

 

 

Awesome info, exactly the kind of thing I needed to read. So the hope will be that the DT10 has a good buffer, certainly good enough to make it down a slightly longer signal path and just a few pedals, and I'll definitely watch where I place fuzz/overdrive when and if I purchase those pedals. I will certainly be using a fuzz that I'd like to have clean up with the volume knob so sounds like that'll be going first, eventually.

[T Stre]

I use the tuner out of my EB VPJR and it works great, using a TU-2. As far the delay goes, what about a DD-20?