Members bmast160 Posted February 1, 2008 Members Share Posted February 1, 2008 do you agree fuzz works better with high impedance signals? why does it work better? are there other pedals or types of pedals that work better with high impedance signals? what works good with low impedance signals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bmast160 Posted February 1, 2008 Author Members Share Posted February 1, 2008 bump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AMZ-FX Posted February 1, 2008 Moderators Share Posted February 1, 2008 Most pedals are high impedance in, low impedance out. The interaction of a fuzz (like the fuzzface) with the guitar, has much to do with the inductance of the pickups connected to the fuzz input and less to do with impedance. It is well known that certain wah pedals will cause oscillation when driving a fuzzface input... the cure? Buffer the wah output... Pedal impedance: http://www.muzique.com/lab/imp.htm regards, Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bmast160 Posted February 1, 2008 Author Members Share Posted February 1, 2008 so why do buffer/line driver pedals suggest putting fuzz before the buffer...because the buffer would not allow the inductace interaction between the guitar and fuzz? also what if you have two fuzz pedals connected directly to the guitar (guitar->fuzz1->fuzz2->buffer->etc.). If fuzz1 is off and true bypass will fuzz2 interact well with the inductace of the guitar just as it would if it was in the position that fuzz1 is in? also so you agree that fuzz effects work better when they can interact with the inductance of the guitar? are there other effects that work better before a buffer to allow the inductance interaction of the guitar to occur? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bmast160 Posted February 1, 2008 Author Members Share Posted February 1, 2008 what exactly in the fuzz effect is it that feeds of the inductance of the guitar? the SI or GE transistors? there are overdrive and boost pedals that use SI and GE transistors too...would they work better before a buffer also? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AMZ-FX Posted February 1, 2008 Moderators Share Posted February 1, 2008 There are very few pedals that actually have serious interaction with the guitar pickups. I can only think of 3 or 4. Most pedals have a moderately high input impedance and can tolerate many types of input signals. The majority of overdrive and boost pedals don't have much interaction with the guitar, which is how they were designed to act. regards, Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bmast160 Posted February 1, 2008 Author Members Share Posted February 1, 2008 what about the other questions? anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bmast160 Posted February 1, 2008 Author Members Share Posted February 1, 2008 bump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members melx Posted February 1, 2008 Members Share Posted February 1, 2008 Just put it where it sounds best, who cares why? ........I'm a guitarist not a physicist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bmast160 Posted February 1, 2008 Author Members Share Posted February 1, 2008 well then your not answering my question. i want to know why Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members melx Posted February 1, 2008 Members Share Posted February 1, 2008 well then your not answering my question. i want to know why why it sounds better? it doesn't, it just sounds different....what sounds better you you might sound worse to me. so to answer the original question, no I don't agree...it subjective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bmast160 Posted February 1, 2008 Author Members Share Posted February 1, 2008 this was my question... so why do buffer/line driver pedals suggest putting fuzz before the buffer...because the buffer would not allow the inductace interaction between the guitar and fuzz? also what if you have two fuzz pedals connected directly to the guitar (guitar->fuzz1->fuzz2->buffer->etc.). If fuzz1 is off and true bypass will fuzz2 interact well with the inductace of the guitar just as it would if it was in the position that fuzz1 is in? and what is the electronic interaction between fuzz pedal circuitry and the inductance of the guitar...what is happening to the signal that is not happening if you run it later in the line(after a buffer)...are the transistors in the pedal getting a better signal or cleaner signal or what? i dont know? thats why im asking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members skr3ddy Posted February 1, 2008 Members Share Posted February 1, 2008 this was my question...so why do buffer/line driver pedals suggest putting fuzz before the buffer...because the buffer would not allow the inductace interaction between the guitar and fuzz? also what if you have two fuzz pedals connected directly to the guitar (guitar->fuzz1->fuzz2->buffer->etc.). If fuzz1 is off and true bypass will fuzz2 interact well with the inductace of the guitar just as it would if it was in the position that fuzz1 is in?and what is the electronic interaction between fuzz pedal circuitry and the inductance of the guitar...what is happening to the signal that is not happening if you run it later in the line(after a buffer)...are the transistors in the pedal getting a better signal or cleaner signal or what? i dont know? thats why im asking. It just boils down to this: a good fuzz pedal is reactive. It is reactive to the impedance, the inductance, the voltage, the current, etc. It is sensitive, and it will vary its response depending on what it senses. Without needing to get too technical, the bottom line is you want a reactive amplifier to "hear" the guitar, the strings, the pickups, your fingers, your pick attack. You don't want it to "hear" the sound of a buffer, where all those subtleties have already been gobbled up and turned into a sterile signal. Instead of having dynamic ebbs and flows of signal, like your pickup would produce, a buffer creates more of a constant, high-intensity signal. The lack of the guitar pickup's inductance interacting with the fuzz pedal's input, and instead a low-impedance, amplified version of the signal being present, results in a much brighter, more "electronic" and less "organic" tone, in oldschool fuzz circuits, generally speaking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bmast160 Posted February 1, 2008 Author Members Share Posted February 1, 2008 great. thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members starsailor803 Posted February 1, 2008 Members Share Posted February 1, 2008 All I know is you can forget using any sort of active pickups with fuzzfaces/clones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bmast160 Posted February 1, 2008 Author Members Share Posted February 1, 2008 ps...what do you think of this...http://psionicaudio.com/main/fuzzylogic.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members skr3ddy Posted February 1, 2008 Members Share Posted February 1, 2008 Another way of looking at it is that old-fashioned fuzz pedals generally have low input impedance. Which is a way of saying that they "suck" a lot of the current from the input signal. When a guitar is plugged directly into such a circuit, the pickups are being "loaded" by that circuit; their current is being drawn into it. The circuit assumes this relationship in its design, and is made so that it turns this situation into a pleasing tone. When a guitar is plugged into a buffer, generally that buffer has high input impedance, which is to say that it does not draw a lot of current from the signal. A guitar's signal going into a buffer has nowhere to go; it is not being drained. So it will retain a lot more of its brightness, but it will also "lose" a bit of its dynamic range. Its noise level will increase, all other things being equal, for example. Its dynamic range--the difference in tone between loud and soft--will diminish, for example. In many settings, a buffer is actually desirable, since it eliminates a lot of variables in the equation and gives you much more control over the signal, and it prevents the loss of highs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members skr3ddy Posted February 1, 2008 Members Share Posted February 1, 2008 ps...what do you think of this...http://psionicaudio.com/main/fuzzylogic.htm Good in theory. Also Jack Orman has info on this concept on his website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AMZ-FX Posted February 1, 2008 Moderators Share Posted February 1, 2008 are the transistors in the pedal getting a better signal or cleaner signal or what? i dont know? thats why im asking. The inductance of the pickups, the capacitance of the guitar cable and the input impedance of the fuzz will make a resonant peak that colors the sound. regards, Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bmast160 Posted February 1, 2008 Author Members Share Posted February 1, 2008 this is all great! thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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