Members ggm1960 Posted September 30, 2007 Members Share Posted September 30, 2007 Whatever happened to midi switchers? Recently I've been trying to eliminate the need for a laptop to control my gear at live gigs and just use my XP-30 to send change messages to all the other midi gear. I discovered quickly that daisy chaining ain't for crap and had to throw my old Nexus 3x8 midi switcher into the mix. That Nexus unit is old by computer/music tech standards as I've probably had it since the early to mid 90's. I'm somewhat concerned about it's reliability (output 1 stopped working quite some time ago) but there just doesn't seem to be anything comparitable out there today, in fact, it seems nearly impossible to find anything that doesn't require USB these days. Anyone aware of something with the fuctionality of the old style midi switchers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tony Scharf Posted September 30, 2007 Members Share Posted September 30, 2007 Most of those kinds of switching functions (and more) can be found in units like the Edirol UM880 or the MOTU MIDI interfaces. with the UM880, you can program it from its front panel and use it for routing without a computer. if you really need a lot of midi processing power, the MOTU MTP/AV can do amazing thing with midi routing, merging, rechannellizing and other processing. You can set it up so that one program change will completely reconfigure your whole MIDI rig without needing a computer to do it (at least thats the theory - I have not used that product myself). I have an Edirol UM880 and it does a terrific job for my needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ggm1960 Posted September 30, 2007 Author Members Share Posted September 30, 2007 I have an Edirol UM880 and it does a terrific job for my needs. Yes I'd noticed that unit out there before, but it's apparently out of production (as well as similar units by M-Audio). It had showed up in yahoo searches but is no longer available and the recommended replacements require USB power. I'll either have to research deeper into those MOTU units (most of those seem to also require USB) and/or keep an eye on eBay I suppose!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tony Scharf Posted September 30, 2007 Members Share Posted September 30, 2007 Yes I'd noticed that unit out there before, but it's apparently out of production (as well as similar units by M-Audio). It had showed up in yahoo searches but is no longer available and the recommended replacements require USB power. I'll either have to research deeper into those MOTU units (most of those seem to also require USB) and/or keep an eye on eBay I suppose!? the USB is only required on those units if you want them connected to a computer, or to use a computer to edit them. the MTP/AV has an LCD display that lets you do full programming without the PC. also, the UM880s come up regularly on eBay/Craigslist and can be had very reasonably. The same could be said for the MTP/AV( particularly the older serial port version - still has all the routing features, but because its NOT usb - its cheaper). The MTP has been around for over a decade and is something of a standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ggm1960 Posted October 1, 2007 Author Members Share Posted October 1, 2007 Thanks for some very good information Tony.That certainly sounds like what I'm interested in. I have several computers in the house and really enjoy using them; very useful for setting up keyboards, sound modules, etc. but at a gig the last thing I want to do is fiddle around with a PC! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Prog Posted October 1, 2007 Members Share Posted October 1, 2007 All you need is a MIDI splitter (1 in, 4 out) and then do all of the programming from the XP-30. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChipCurtis Posted October 1, 2007 Members Share Posted October 1, 2007 The old Digital Music Corp. MX-8 MIDI routers from the late 80s are very powerful and (of course) don't require USB. I got 2 of them cheap on eBay, they do everything... not just switching but filtering, merging, routing, splitting, velocity curves, MIDI offset, and a lot more... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pawnz Posted October 1, 2007 Members Share Posted October 1, 2007 .....if you really need a lot of midi processing power, the MOTU MTP/AV can do amazing thing with midi routing, merging, rechannellizing and other processing. You can set it up so that one program change will completely reconfigure your whole MIDI rig without needing a computer to do it (at least thats the theory - I have not used that product myself)...... I'm wondering if the MOTU MTP/AV configures program changes for all synths/modules connected to it as well as initial volume levels....important functions. Interestingly, I just saw in this months Keyboard magazine that one of the keyboard players for Cindy Lauper's tour was using a MX-8, representing a comprehensive MIDI processor that is easily 20 years old. I used to gig with one of these, or its Yamaha counterpart, the MEP-4, back in the day. One would think that if a more contemporary MIDI processor was available, it would have been selected for this guy's rig...... OTOH, maybe he just digs it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MarkF786 Posted October 2, 2007 Members Share Posted October 2, 2007 It looks like the cheapest device is a $350 MOTU MIDI Express XT. Everything else requires USB power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ggm1960 Posted October 2, 2007 Author Members Share Posted October 2, 2007 All you need is a MIDI splitter (1 in, 4 out) and then do all of the programming from the XP-30. That's not quite true. While it's true that I've managed to get the XP-30 all setup to do the program/patch changing (a great idea you brought to my attention ), I still need to get it's output combined with the output from my M-Audio ES-88 keyboard controller for the Roland Fantom XR unit. If I wanted to use the Nexus 3x8 I already have I'd still need a midi merger at the bare minimum. Just a 2 in, 1 out unit runs $60. It started me to thinking that maybe I should just spend more money and get something that is a whole lot more flexible, however the options seem to be limited these days. Here's what I've been finding out: The Edirol UM880 would be a great unit. Works with a USB computer or stand alone. 8 in - 8 out can merge/route/patch and whatever but is out of production. None on eBay right now. The M-Audio/Midiman Midisport 8x8 is very much like the Edirol UM880 unit but is also out of production. 4 of 'em on eBay right now. Looks like they're going for around $175. I'm leaning this direction right now. The MOTU Midi Express 128 looked like a real good option for around $230 but my research leads me to believe that it requires a PC/Mac/USB to operate and will not operate as a stand alone unit. The next option is the MOTU Midi Express XT which operates stand alone but now we're talking $350. I guess it all leaves me a little undecided at the moment. I'm still pondering other options including keeping the PC laptop in the mix albeit in a more subdued role. I've found a program called Midi Program Changer from some outfit called PAS. It does all the right stuff but the program itself seems a bit amateurish and buggy. Yeah I'm a little up in the air but I've got time to figure it out. If I'm wrong or mistaken about any of my information here please someone set me straight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ggm1960 Posted October 2, 2007 Author Members Share Posted October 2, 2007 The old Digital Music Corp. MX-8 MIDI routers from the late 80s are very powerful and (of course) don't require USB. I got 2 of them cheap on eBay, they do everything... not just switching but filtering, merging, routing, splitting, velocity curves, MIDI offset, and a lot more... I see one of those on there now. Can you rackmount it or install in a universal tray? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ggm1960 Posted October 2, 2007 Author Members Share Posted October 2, 2007 the MTP/AV( particularly the older serial port version - still has all the routing features, but because its NOT usb - its cheaper). The MTP has been around for over a decade and is something of a standard. I see a couple of these on eBay, I'm watchin' em now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MFenkner Posted October 2, 2007 Members Share Posted October 2, 2007 The MOTU Midi Express 128 can only be powered via USB. That's why I mentioned the XT. It's just ridiculous that it costs $350 for the cheapest standalone MIDI patchbay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members johnmoorejohn Posted October 2, 2007 Members Share Posted October 2, 2007 http://www.sonicstate.com/digital/model.cfm?modelID=1758&catid=7&manid=109 I have a midiman 3x8 if you are interested. If it does what you need and you want it, PM me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wildpaws Posted October 2, 2007 Members Share Posted October 2, 2007 I'm still using a Yamaha MJC8 8 in/8 out midi junction controller along with two MEP4s to change any midi data that I want to "edit" in real time. Though they are from the late '80s they still work well in my home studio setup, one program change takes care of setting up all of my midi gear.Clyde Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ggm1960 Posted October 3, 2007 Author Members Share Posted October 3, 2007 The MOTU Midi Express 128 can only be powered via USB. That's why I mentioned the XT. It's just ridiculous that it costs $350 for the cheapest standalone MIDI patchbay. I agree. I've decided to draw the line between $150 & $200. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ggm1960 Posted October 3, 2007 Author Members Share Posted October 3, 2007 http://www.sonicstate.com/digital/model.cfm?modelID=1758&catid=7&manid=109I have a midiman 3x8 if you are interested. If it does what you need and you want it, PM me. Will that unit merge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members johnmoorejohn Posted October 3, 2007 Members Share Posted October 3, 2007 Will that unit merge? Does not seem like it does merging. Just splitting. http://www.m-audio.com/images/global/manuals/050210_Thru3x8_UG_01.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChipCurtis Posted October 3, 2007 Members Share Posted October 3, 2007 I see one of those on there now. Can you rackmount it or install in a universal tray? MX-8 is a 1U rack mountable. No need for a tray.It does merging unlike the other unit just mentioned. It can do complete setup-switching from a standard footswitch. Change all patches on all connected units, and re-route them, instantly, without moving a hand. I can see why the guy in Lauper's band uses it. Snag one or two! You won't regret it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ElectricPuppy Posted October 3, 2007 Members Share Posted October 3, 2007 I wonder if anyone made a new, standalone 8x8 MIDI switcher (for instance) if there would be much of a market for it? I think all the manufactures of these things gave up on them because they figured everyone would just use their PC for such duties these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ggm1960 Posted October 3, 2007 Author Members Share Posted October 3, 2007 Ok so I started watching eBay for those older units as has been suggested and last night I won a MOTU midi time piece II. It looks like a very functional unit, old style serial connections of course but PC connectivity was not much of a consideration. There's no manual or anything else but at $56 (including $15 for S&H) it comes in way under the budget wire. I'll see if I can get the unit figured out when it arrives, I'm pretty sure it will serve my purposes if I can set it up right. If I don't like it or there's some other problem I'll still be able to look for something else and return here for the great suggestions. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ggm1960 Posted October 3, 2007 Author Members Share Posted October 3, 2007 I wonder if anyone made a new, standalone 8x8 MIDI switcher (for instance) if there would be much of a market for it? I think all the manufactures of these things gave up on them because they figured everyone would just use their PC for such duties these days. They weren't profitable apparently but I'm not sure why. Things are changing of course but for live gigs laptop computers just haven't had the muscle that comparatively priced home systems do and I don't think there's ever been a time (perhaps never will be) when one can be overly confident with the reliability of ones computer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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