Looper that actually syncs to a MIDI clock ... and works?

[OzPricey]

Thanks spiral for that massive reply! Cleared everything up. Yeah I'll try with the RC-50 as master, or even just set the drum machine completely seperate to RC-50 and simply sync by ear.

 

Slightly OT but could you recommend me any drum machines to check out if your savvy with that area?

 

Thanks again!

[spiral]

Thanks spiral for that massive reply! Cleared everything up. Yeah I'll try with the RC-50 as master, or even just set the drum machine completely seperate to RC-50 and simply sync by ear. Slightly OT but could you recommend me any drum machines to check out if your savvy with that area? Thanks again!

It's not problem at all. As you can see i went through this exercise recently so it's all fresh in my head. I think the 2880 is the only current production looper that will sync properly to MIDI.

 

If you sync by ear you will be out of sync after just a few loops and it will continue to drift apart, even if your timing is 100% perfect. Certainly try recording a drum loop from the drum machine into the RC-50 as an audio loop. It is simple and free. The other option, midi sync, involves investing in (or borrowing) a $5 cable.

 

As for drum machines: that is a whole other question and i'm the wrong person to ask. I use a sampler (MPC1000) with my own sounds. There are so many different drum machines i wouldn't know where to direct you. I personally like the rhythm boxes that came with organs that were all analog. The MFB stuff is pricey but analog. If you want "real" drum kit type sounds, i'd say now days, you could just pick nearly any newer drum machine and be fine. Best thing to do is go to musicians friend, find 5 that look like they are cool, and find the website for each one so you can hear what they sound like and what features they have.

[secretprocess]

Reviving this old thread to ask yet another question about midi slaving on the RC-50. Obviously, we all know the audio resampling sucks if you change the tempo, but I have an even worse problem: I have no need to change the tempo while loops are playing, I just want to sync to a single tempo and stay there... but it doesn't even read the right tempo to begin with!

 

Here's what happens: I slave the RC-50 to some other device sending midi clock (I've tried Ableton Live, Logic, and another RC-50, with same result). Both are stopped, and the RC-50's current tempo is, say, 100, and the master device's tempo is 120. I hit play on the master device, and the RC-50's tempo gets set to 120... if I'm lucky! More often than not, it actually gets set to 119.9, or 120.1, or really anything in the range of +/- 1 bpm. At first I was hoping it maybe corrects itself after awhile, but it doesn't. And before long, you start to hear it drifting out of time -- the longer it plays, the more off it gets.

 

So yeah, the audio stretching sucks when you change the tempo. But I at least get why that is: resampling audio to any tempo in real-time is a difficult problem, which only certain products have conquered (it was a big deal back when Ableton figured it out for Live).

 

But the RC-50's inability to accurately read a single midi clock tempo is baffling! How can this be?? And how come nobody else seems to be complaining about this? I've updated the firmware, I've tried it on two different units.. does this not happen to anyone else? Am I missing something?

 

Appreciate any tips, similar stories, etc..!

[spiral]

The simple answer is: it doesn't work. What you described is exactly what i wanted to do (and why i started this thread). I ended up getting the Electro Harmonix 2880 which is far superior for syncing. I think you will find complaints from when it first came out, especially on Loopers Delight, but i am guessing people that needed MIDI slaving, figured out it didn't work so sold their RC50's. I know i did.

[mlabbee]

So the 2880 does sync well as a slave?

[fightthepower]

Nope.

 

On the first loop it pitch-shifts and warbles, and then after one full rotation it stays in sync. You can kind of work around this by keeping the volume slider at 0, playing the riff and hitting the loop button, and keep playing the riff one more time through-- then quickly bring the volume back up and go to the next loop...

 

But basically, no.. the RC-50 and 2880 will not effectively Slave to a MIDI clock, at least not good enough for most live use IMO, unless you're not looping much and doing fast changes. I prefer the RC-50 overall, whether using as a MIDI Master or free-running, but I didn't spend too much time with the 2880 because I bought it strictly for MIDI slaving purposes after a year with the RC-50; it has some nice feature that the RC doesn't, so my opinion may have changed if I spent equal time with both. Ultimately, I gave up and started using Ableton.

[test pattern]

the line 6 m9 (and the m13 i assume) can do this perfectly, the only problem is you have to program all the records, overdubs, reverses etc.etc. i do this with my computer, but it is probably possible do to this type of automation with the mpc...

[mlabbee]

 

the line 6 m9 (and the m13 i assume) can do this perfectly, the only problem is you have to program all the records, overdubs, reverses etc.etc. i do this with my computer, but it is probably possible do to this type of automation with the mpc...

 

 

This is interesting - how do you do this? (I have an M13 and am about to buy Live, but if I can use something cheaper . . . )

[jorhay1]

riff box is great except for the amount of time it has is low

[spiral]

Now that the Boomerang III and line6 m9 are out, can these be added to the list of loopers that successfully sync to MIDI?

[Faldoe]

thats pretty sweet that the M9/13 can be synced. Word up.

[fightthepower]

 

Now that the Boomerang III and line6 m9 are out, can these be added to the list of loopers that successfully sync to MIDI?

 

 

No MIDI sync on the Boomerang... though potentially in the future? (not holding my breath)

 

The new mini looperlative is supposed to MIDI sync just fine, don't think its released yet though.

[spiral]

No MIDI sync on the Boomerang... though potentially in the future? (not holding my breath) The new mini looperlative is supposed to MIDI sync just fine, don't think its released yet though.

thank you for replying. I was actually just shopping for a Boomerang III because i thought it did that now. Argh! More waiting i guess (for the LP-2 release or BIII to have a firmware update).

[sommy]

I use the 2880 still, but just use it as the master. I wish I could use it as a slave effectively so I could use the tap tempo on my MPC, but I'll live without it.

[spiral]

thats pretty sweet that the M9/13 can be synced. Word up.

It was more of a question. The manual says the pedal can do this as of version 2.0 of the software, but as we all know, this doesn't mean it works in reality. Anyone have experience with this?

[sommy]

 

The 2880 update is posted here: http://www.ehx.com/products/2880

 

 

Oh, that's great news!

[sommy]

So, I just loaded the software update for the 2880. I can't believe it -- every single problem I had with syncing the 2880 as a slave is completely gone, and I no longer have to record a loop of silence first and then record over it. I'm very, very pleased.

[fightthepower]

So, I just loaded the software update for the 2880. I can't believe it -- every single problem I had with syncing the 2880 as a slave is completely gone, and I no longer have to record a loop of silence first and then record over it. I'm very, very pleased.

 

Good to know... wish I would have kept the 2880!

[iTatter]

omggggggg i've been looking for a thread like this for MONTHS... I'm not sure how I missed this.

 

Incidentally, I *just* found an RC-50 this morning on craigslist that I was gonna get later this week. I knew about the warbling/pitch shift issue, but I assumed it was only if you were messing around with changing tempos on whatever is sending out the master clock signal (in my case it's an Akai XR-20 drum machine). I figured since I never planned on changing tempos mid-song, this wouldn't have been an issue. I'm quite happy I was browsing around these forums and saved $400 haha.

 

It seems there's just too few hardware solutions that have MIDI ports, and the RC-50 seemed perfect. Damn shame

 

I used to also own the Korg KP3, but promptly returned it after I realized it had a tempo drift problem. And it's not a case where the tempo is acting up and changing +/- on it's own, it's just something like a bad internal clock or something, where you'd sync it at a tempo (say 120.0 bpm), and you could have a metronome right next to it at exactly the same bpm, and it will slowly drift out of sync after a few minutes. I was furious too, cause other than that it was practically perfect for my needs.

 

I had hopes for the new Jamman Stereo to fix all my woes, but it turns out it doesn't have any MIDI ports either. Blehh. The only thing I can think of now is that I heard Looperlative is coming out with a smaller stomp-box type version of their rack looper. Hopefully they know about all these rampant problems with current loopers out there and come out swinging with something awesome.

 

Whew, it's pretty refreshing knowing I'm not the only person that's out there looking for something like this. Good luck everyone

[oinkbanana]

I use dd-20's with fixed fraction of tempos (ie i'll use 15bpm delays to the whole note for 4 measures of 4/4 @ 120bpm)

things sync up perfectly all the time.

 

 

but audition is the way to go if you don't mind a laptop on stage.

[P. Wallace]

Ableton

[spiral]

Ableton

I moved to Ableton to do looping but have yet to see the light. How do you deal with setting the initial tempo of a track with your loop? Also, isn't latency an issue for you?

[iTatter]

Hey just FYI I read yesterday that the Looperlative II is due to start shipping within 6-8 weeks. It's a smaller stompbox version of the original $1500 rackmount Looperlative, and it will have MIDI sync capabilities, and apparently 8 (!!) loop banks. Supposedly around the price of a Jamman, $300.

 

Also the guy who started Looperlative just quit his other day job to focus on support on these products (he was pretty good about releasing updates and fixes for the original Looperlative, and customer interaction on the forums even with both jobs). So instead of waiting for nonexistant fixes from Boss or Korg, this should be a legit alternative.

 

I will be eagerly waiting for this.

[spiral]

 

Hey just FYI I read yesterday that the Looperlative II is due to start shipping within 6-8 weeks.

 

This is great news. Thanks for posting. I was periodically checking their boards to find out when the LP-2 would come out. Just ordered a line 6 M9 to try but will order an LP-2 the second they are available.

[awdwon]

 

I moved to Ableton to do looping but have yet to see the light. How do you deal with setting the initial tempo of a track with your loop? Also, isn't latency an issue for you?

 

 

If you're using Live 8 then you just set up the looper instrument on a track and you can set the whole project tempo based on the first loop that you record. Latency isn't really an issue for me as long as I'm not processing the loops in Live with effects. I run my Axe FX into Live with no noticeable latency. A good sound card is a must and there's a tutorial for setting up your sound card for the correct latency setting.